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1995.04.04_TC_Minutes_Executive Session1 EXECUTIVE SESSION OF THE TOWN COMMISSION OF THE TOWN OF HIGHLAND BEACH, FLORIDA Tuesday, April 4, 1995 3614 South Ocean Boulevard Highland Beach, Florida 3:05 P.M. - 10:43 P.M. PRESENT: ARLIN VORESS, MAYOR BILL PAUL, VICE -MAYOR DAVID AUGENSTEIN, COMMISSIONER ARTHUR EYPEL, COMMISSIONER JOHN F. RAND, COMMISSIONER MARY ANN MARIANO, TOWN MANAGER GEORGE ROBERTS, ESQUIRE BARBARA BOLTON, COURT REPORTER MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 t. 2 3 w � Y k. 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 _. 14 15 h 16 .: 17 f . d, 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 EXECUTIVE SESSION OF THE TOWN COMMISSION OF THE TOWN OF HIGHLAND BEACH, FLORIDA Tuesday, April 4, 1995 3614 South Ocean Boulevard Highland Beach, Florida 3:05 P.M. - 10:43 P.M. PRESENT: ARLIN VORESS, MAYOR BILL PAUL, VICE -MAYOR DAVID AUGENSTEIN, COMMISSIONER ARTHUR EYPEL, COMMISSIONER JOHN F. RAND, COMMISSIONER MARY ANN MARIANO, TOWN MANAGER GEORGE ROBERTS, ESQUIRE BARBARA BOLTON, COURT REPORTER MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 2 1 MAYOR VORESS: I call to order this 2 Special Meeting of the Town Commission of the 3 Town of Highland Beach. will the Clerk please 4 call the roll. 5 THE CLERK: Commissioner Rand. 6 MR. RAND: Here. 7 THE CLERK: Commissioner Augenstein. 8 MR. AUGENSTEIN: Here. 9 THE CLERK: Vice Mayor Paul. 10 VICE MAYOR PAUL: Here. 11 THE CLERK: Commissioner Eypel. 12 MR. EYPEL: Here. 13 THE CLERK: Mayor Voress. 14 MAYOR VORESS: Here. I'd like to 15 temporarily adjourn the Special Meeting of the 16 Town Commission, Town of Highland Beach, and call 17 to order an executive meeting of the Town 18 Commission. 19 MR. ROBERTS: On behalf -- as the 20 special counsel in town for purposes of the RTC 21 Broadview litigation, Your Honor, I would request 22 an executive session of the town to discuss 23 strategy of settlement of this matter. I would 241 note that we have a court reporter present and 25; that the persons in addition to the roll called MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road wast Palm Beach. Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 __ _ — n_.d.. N]nrN 071 071Q Arca (.nrla (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 myself, Rusty Roberts, and Town Manager Mary Ann Mariano. And we expect that the meeting will last an hour. MAYOR VORESS: Thank you. All right. In order to get this meeting underway, I would, one, like to bring the Commission up to date on my conversations with the RTC relative to the motion at the last executive committee meeting to invite Jay Hambric of the RTC to meet with the executive session of the Town Commission and also to request a response to the town's proposal for settlement. I did indeed call Jay on Wednesday after our meeting on Tuesday, told him the Town Commission would like to invite him to come to the executive session of the Town Commission, and he said when, I said we'll try to set it up for Tuesday after the regular meeting of the Town Commission. And he said that he was going to be in Florida and that would suit his schedule all right. ]ie would be willing to do that. MR. ROBERTS: Mayor, if I could interrupt you. I don't know if you're familiar with these. You have to -- and I'm talking with MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I the court reporter, you have to start the time of the meeting, I think it was probably 3:04, and identify people who speak. And nothing is off the record. Okay. Thank you. I'm sorry, Mayor. MAYOR VORESS: No problem. And he said he would be willing to do that. He said who will be here, and I said the five commissioners, the town manager and the man who will be our attorney, Rusty Roberts. And he said fine. Then he would have to bring an attorney from the RTC and that would be Judith Thomsen who, by the way, is the person that met with John Douglas and I in Valley Forge and who has drafted part of the documents. I said to Jay we need, though, to have a response to our proposal. We do not have that. Where do you stand on that? He said I have now reviewed that, and he said my general observation is that the legal issues have been well dealt with. He said I still have a problem with the money, and he said that the RTC had been in conversations with some party, which I assume to be either a developer or a land planner, who had said to the RTC they'd like to talk about the development parameters for that property, and I MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5 said, well, bring whatever you want to the Town Commission when you come. They're the ones you need to talk to. So he said fine, he would be there. And I said, well, when will you have the document to us? And he said when do you need it? I said by Friday afternoon at the latest. And I said I will call you to confirm the meeting. And I think Rusty got it set up and I called Jay on Friday morning to confirm the meeting today with the RTC and to ask him where we stood on getting the document here. He said that Judith was working on it. It would be here late in the afternoon. Mary Ann called me about between what, five thirty and six, I guess. MS. MARIANO: Right close to six. MAYOR VORESS: And said that the document wasn't here yet. And I said, well, is the machine still on? She said yes. I said, well, why don't you go home. I'll come back to Town Hall in the morning and see if it's here. I did and found it was here, called Doris and we transmitted it to everybody, with a copy to Mary Ann and the five of us, and I left a call for Rusty because I didn't know whether he had gotten a copy and we had a copy for him and I MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 subsequently understood he had gotten some information from him. I do want to comment on the cover letter that was received with the RTC response to us and specifically the last sentence in the second paragraph in which Jay says, "In earlier conversations I have already notified you that our revision would reflect the monetary settlement we reached with the town." That is incorrect. As far as I know there is no monetary settlement with the town, no data shows that and I intend to say that to Jay in public session that there is no monetary agreement with the town. Then I would propose that the first part of our executive meeting would be devoted to a Commission discussion of the response that we have gotten from the RTC and that a consensus be reached on the issues that are in that document, and then such a session would then -- after that we would call the RTC in to meet with us. As an aside they are here and also Chris Yates, so there are actually three people here, Jay Hambric who is head of the Valley Forge office, Judith Thomsen who represents the law end of the branch MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7 of the RTC, and Jay Hambric who -- and Chris Yates who is head of the SADT team, the Strategic Assets Disposal Team. We'll call them in and discuss then, have the discussion between the Commission. Now, since there are five commissioners here, I think we would probably be best served to have one spokesman to talk with the RTC back and forth, not that we won't all join in, but somebody has to be the lead and that could be either me as chair of the meeting or Mary Ann or Rusty, and I would suggest that it ought to be Rusty since he's prepared the document. Does anybody have any problem with that? MR. RAND: No. VICE MAYOR PAUL: No. MR. EYPEL: No. MAYOR VORESS: My review of the RTC's response is that there are around five categories of issues in this response we had from them. One, there were minor things. Two, there were areas of change that I think need legal clarification. At least I need to understand that where we have said we'll do something after MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 a court order, they say after settlement stipulation. I don't know what the meaning of some of that is. There are certainly changes in development parameters. There are changes in the monetary settlement and there are also -- they deleted almost our whole remedy section. I'd like to understand a little bit about that. So I think we might think about as we walk through here the various categorizations. If there's minor things, I don't think we need a lot of time on that if we're trying to get through this pretty quickly. And so I would suggest that we also -- what we ought to do in joint session with the RTC is either we or they need to have a conference to resolve some issue if a question arises, that we will either meet here and excuse them to the conference room where they are right now in Town Hall or if they want to be excused, they'll move to the conference room to resolve some issue to respond to us, that we do that. Then after -- if you agree with that after we get everything done, I'll invite those personnel to join the meeting, introduce all the parties, tell them how we plan to proceed with this meeting and then ask them if they have any MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I objections. Then I still want to comment to Jay on this statement he's put in here. And then after the meeting we'll adjourn this meeting and reconvene the special session. Does anybody have any problem with that kind of a procedure or like to change it? MR. RAND: No, the only suggestion that I would like to make is I think we ought to dwell on the matters that I think could be more easily resolved and are not as of major consequence as the issues of the monetary situation and also the height. So I think we ought to talk about the various terms and the changes that they made and why they made it and have an understanding of it and then leave the discussion regarding monetary consideration and their new request about increasing the height to the end so at least we make some progress in that respect in the event that we can't reach any agreement on the last two issues. MAYOR VORESS: Okay. I think that if we could all have our druthers we'd like to come out of here with an agreement that a new document could be prepared in which whatever changes are appropriate to both parties would be MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 10 put in there and then a new document would be developed before they leave here so we would have in our hands something that we as a town could proceed with the process to advertise, have public hearings and then vote up or down. Is that what we'd like to see as the end result of this meeting? MR. RAND: I think perhaps another suggestion might be to ask them whether they're prepared to stay here another day or so in order to finalize this agreement assuming that we do have a meeting of the minds because I don't think you're going to have a new document prepared that quickly but -- MAYOR VORESS: Well, let me tell you I introduced -- said hello to them and asked them to sit in the conference room and told them that we needed to meet first because we had not met as a group. MR. RAND: Right. MAYOR VORESS: And Jay's comment to Judith at that time was, well, I need the time because I really haven't gone over everything you've put together here, Judith, and he'd like to do that. And I said if we can get a general MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 agreement among the five people who are the determinative body of the town are sitting in front of you right now, would you be prepared to put some kind of document together that would incorporate any or all changes that we decide on, and she said yes, I have a disk with me and a computer attached to the one in Valley Forge or Philadelphia, and it is programmed to Rusty's piece of paper here. MR. RAND: Okay. MAYOR VORESS: And that they would be willing to do whatever it is -- MR. RAND: Fine. MAYOR VORESS: -- that came from that. Is that -- MR. EYPEL: Are we -- so, in other words, Mayor, if I understand correctly, we have the ability to commit both sides today if we want to. MAYOR VORESS: The people from both sides are here that have the ability. MR. EYPEL: To commit. MAYOR VORESS: Well, to get a general agreement, yes. MR. EYPEL: Okay. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 12 MAYOR VORESS: The commitment as far as the town is concerned will be a formal process that allows us to do that. MR. RAND: I don't think that point has ever been clarified and I know the stipulation makes provision for it, but perhaps Miss Thomsen can confirm that if we reach an agreement that Mr. Hambric is duly authorized to sign the agreement. MAYOR VORESS: I think we should certainly ask that. MR. RAND: I'd like to have that assurance. MAYOR VORESS: Sure. MR. RAND: That if we come to a meeting of the minds that Mr. Hambric is indeed authorized to sign and bind such an agreement. MAYOR VORESS: Well, that's the point that the Town Manager has been making all along, and I think that's an excellent point. There's no problem with that. VICE MAYOR PAUL: Is the other attorney going to be here when we get into the finances? MS. MARIANO: No. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 13 MR. RAND: He's out of town. You mean our attorney, Bill? VICE MAYOR PAUL: Yes. MR. AUGENSTEIN: I think we have to address the new building parameters which they've put in. I think that could very well be a stumbling block. MAYOR VORESS: Well, it could be but we certainly need to get some stance of our own, do you think, first? MR. AUGENSTEIN: Absolutely. We should all be coordinated on what we're going to offer. MAYOR VORESS: I think the Town Manager had something she wanted to bring up, too. MS. MARIANO: Yes, I have something I want to read into the record at this point before we get into it. "Due to the latest letter and proposal submitted by Mr. Hambric on behalf of the RTC and concerns raised by you individually to me, I feel it necessary at this time to clarify on record several items. Subsequent to this issue having been tried in Federal Court in February of 1992 and Mr. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 14 Hambric's assignment to the matter, I have met personally with him and various associates of his three times, twice at Town Hall over a year ago with the Mayor present and once in February of this year in West Palm Beach with both the Mayor and Attorney Roberts present. At all three meetings, the first two by me and the last by Mr. Roberts, Mr. Hambric has been told in no uncertain terms that it takes the entire elected body to bind the town to any settlement, not its Manager, its Mayor nor its Attorney but a majority of the entire Commission. All of the meetings and conversations with the RTC have been held directly between Mr. Hambric, RTC staff, the Mayor and John Douglas. I feel that regardless of what may have been said or implied in any further meetings or conversations held by others, Mr. Hambric has already been put on notice three times that no settlement with the town could be reached on any specific issue without this Commission meeting in session. I believe that for the record a letter correcting Mr. Hambric's obvious misunderstanding is in order and should be written as soon as possible to clarify the written record in this matter." MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MAYOR VORESS: Okay. Any other comments? 15 MR. AUGENSTEIN: I'd like to ask Rusty, have you read the transmittal they sent, the corrected -- MR. ROBERTS: The letter you mean: MR. AUGENSTEIN: The letter where they corrected yours. MR. ROBERTS: Well, I received apparently at the same time that the town received it in my office a fax of the transmittal with the so-called final agreement and then the document entitled Draft with the various notes on it, and after I reviewed it it became apparent to me that I had not received everything because the numbering seemed to be off and there seemed to be pages missing and my first assumption was that those pages were missing, there was nothing in it. Nothing changed. And I checked this morning with Mary Ann and found that there in fact were other pages and other changes, and so when I -- I went through last night and drew up this document which I had distributed to you all this morning, and I came by Town Hall and picked up the rest of the documents, and that's what I've been doing MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 16 Needless to say that I don't believe reached with the town by anyone. I've not seen any correspondence to that effect. What one person thinks may not be -- you know, certainly that might well be a negotiating tool on their part as well or a strategy on their part as well. But I've looked through it and there's some, you know, some substantial changes and am prepared to go through that one by one. In addition, as I said before at the last -- a couple of meetings ago, every time you read this you think of something new, and I have some further comments to make which I think since they have sought to make changes that we probably need to consider as well, the most obvious of those which I discussed with Mary Ann this morning is that in the approval procedure the document as written that we submitted to them simply said MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 17 we'll agree to said resolution sent to you but there was no time limit on them getting it back to us which could leave the potential that they could take it, take it up there and sit and wait and see what happens in the appellate court. And if they won they wouldn't sign it. If they lost they'd sign it. So I don't -- you know, everybody thinks that wouldn't happen because they're here and they're going to sign and stuff like that, but I think it's necessary to insert some time period in there to say that you should, you know, you've got ten days and if you don't do it in ten days, then the whole deal is off. Okay? Ours is not valid. So it doesn't give them the ability to do that. It seems to me that somewhere along the way, and this has been discussed about Mr. Hambric's ability to, you know, be authorized to sign this and certainly he's down here and whatever, but it seems to me that in the number of years I've been involved with this they've always indicated that any such agreements have to be approved by some committee or board above them, and I don't know one way or the other whether that's true or not. You know, that's one MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 18 of the things and that's one of the other things that I have to put in there would be, you know, I want to see some authority that we can rely on that -- okay, I'm getting a note here. The other thing that I haven't done, too, because I just received it yesterday was that the RTC, I want to call them plaintiff, I guess they're appellee had filed a motion to file a supplemental brief to the Eleventh Circuit, and I believe you all received that, essentially it was argument and that was denied by the Court and in a short one -sentence order it was signed by Judge Cox. I asked -- called Sam and said what did he think of that and he said not much and he said, you know, that's probably what it is -- what the true result should be. He then at our request called the Eleventh Circuit this morning just to see whether or not some opinion had been written and sent out and maybe that was an impetus for settlement and he got back and said no opinion had been written was the response he got, so that's where we stand with the Eleventh Circuit. Other comments I have I suppose we'll go along with as we go along here, but -- what I have submitted to you is a document. As I MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 19 said, I went through theirs last night, their draft, and I also went through theirs and tried to pick up in other areas where there had been changes that weren't necessarily reflected in their draft, and there are a few of those and then of course the first five pages I think I didn't get and one of the -- two of the exhibits and I made changes to those. Although some of those are not significant, though, they may be poignant. I too have the ability, I have my word processor right here on the desk back here that I can do the same thing. MAYOR VORESS: Good. MR. ROBERTS: We can change it, our agreement can be changed and typed up and printed on that printer right over there because we did it -- that's where we printed this this morning so -- MR. RAND: Why don't we go page by page. VICE MAYOR PAUL: What we have in front of us now is the result of you having now inspected all the documents received by us and -- MR. ROBERTS: Pretty much. There MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 20 were still -- this was a result of being able to view the settlement stipulation and I think two of the exhibits. Okay? There were a couple of the other exhibits which I did not have on my word processor at the time so I couldn't make those changes. I have since done that. I have a copy of that now. You don't have a copy of some of the exhibits how they've changed it. MR. RAND: I have that. MR. ROBERTS: Okay. And I don't think you can see that. But I have all the documents now on the word processor and we can go through that. MAYOR VORESS: Can we start? MR. RAND: Why don't we go page by page. MAYOR VORESS: Let's go page by page through the document. The first page. Do you see any problem, Rusty, with adding the Stipulation of Settlement on the agreement? MR. ROBERTS: I don't have a problem with that. I would just say Settlement Stipulation is the title. MR. RAND: But they've added this in. Does it make any material difference what MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 21 they add? MR. ROBERTS: No, I don't think there's any substantial difference here. That's just stylistic. And I hate to put too many different names to it. I like to be consistent with one name, and to the extent that there are other instances, I would just delete those, but I think if it's entitled Settlement Stipulation, then filed as Settlement Stipulation to amicably resolve this action. MR. RAND: So we can leave in what they suggested. MR. ROBERTS: Well, I would just suggest that we say instead of this stipulation, it would be this settlement stipulation. MR. RAND: So our suggestion would be settlement stipulation. MR. ROBERTS: Right. MR. RAND: Okay. Next page. Any change there? MAYOR VORESS: Nothing on there. Third page. Delete "the". MR. RAND: They just had the article "the". There's no big problem there. MS. MARIANO: Four, I think there is MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 22 MAYOR VORESS: Page four there is. MS. MARIANO: Yes, I think they unclarified something that Rusty was -- I think you made it a point to clarify that the Hoffman parcel was not included, and they omitted that. MAYOR VORESS: That's right. MR. RAND: Why? That's what I'd like to know, why should that be omitted. MR. ROBERTS: I don't know. Well, they -- here again their suggestion is this -- the stipulation applies to the property and we had a, you know, much more clear thing. I like mine better. I don't know that theirs is substantially different because there are other parts of this agreement which mention that as well. For instance, the Exhibit 1, the property description specifically excludes this as a part of the property, and I add that in and they made no change to that so -- VICE MAYOR PAUL: And right here they could put as applies to the property as described in exhibit whatever. MR. ROBERTS: Yeah, I mean I don't have any problem with their "more or less". MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 23 MR. RAND: "More or less" is okay in both cases. MR. ROBERTS: More or less in both cases. Okay? MR. RAND: Now, is there -- MR. ROBERTS: But I thought it was important and the reason I put it in there, important because that, you know, there is -- one of the suggestions that they want to do is to go back to the RPUD. Okay? MAYOR VORESS: That's correct. MR. ROBERTS: And the approved RPUD covers that property. MAYOR VORESS: Absolutely. MR. ROBERTS: Okay? It covers that seven acres so that's why I wanted to be clear here that it's not covered and that's why I suggested that we either do it under a new plan or an amended RPUD plan to reflect this and we're going to get into those discussions later, so I think that something could be compromised here, but it's got to be clear that to the extent the RPUD covered that previous plan, it is not covered by the settlement stipulation. MR. RAND: Oh, okay. So we have to MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 24 discuss that point. MR. ROBERTS: Right. MR. RAND: Okay. Number three, that's page six. MR. ROBERTS: Now, that's -- this is a continuation of the same problem because my thought in context in this I think is probably one of the major blocks here that people got to come to agreement on is that when you enter into this agreement, it always to me works best if this agreement is your thing and there is no reference to any previous agreements or previous plans or anything else. What you want, I believe, is that this property is controlled by these parameters. Now, they can do any site plan they want as long as it's within these parameters. The difficulty I have when you get into saying either with the RPUD plan, there very well may be and I believe that there are differences between that plan and the parameters herein. Okay? I mean it's -- I haven't pulled out the RPUD plan that was approved in 1980, but I think that it -- well, for one instance it allowed for 620 units. Okay? VICE MAYOR PAUL: That's right. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 25 MR. ROBERTS: It allowed for five towers. MAYOR VORESS: Yeah. No, I think wasn't it three? MR. ROBERTS: Well, there's two on Hoffman's. MAYOR VORESS: That's what I mean, two on Hoffman's and three on this property. MR. ROBERTS: And there were townhouses but there's five towers there, so my problem with that is once you allow yourself to get into those discussions and you've got the continuing jurisdiction, if they come in and say, gee, this was allowed in the RPUD plan because you notice later on they put in that the town codes here or the RPUD plan and that takes precedence, and I don't want that either. MAYOR VORESS: No. No. MR. ROBERTS: So to me it is that, you know, the RPUD plan, and, quite frankly, as we saw in the final judgment that was entered presumably at their request over our objection, they wanted the Court to institute, reinstitute the RPUD-2 plan. MAYOR VORESS: Right. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 MR. ROBERTS: But give them the opportunity to make reasonable modifications. MAYOR VORESS: That's correct. MR. ROBERTS: And I said to the Court there is absolutely no law that allows me to do that, but he went in and did it anyway. And the reason is because we've known all along they're not going to build the RPUD plan. I mean it's just not -- it hasn't been financially feasible or viable since 1982. Okay? So why did they still want it in here? Okay? Two reasons. One, to introduce confusion which gives them an entre to the courts. Okay? And, two, to have some leverage over you. Well, if you don't come in and let me do something else, then I'll go ahead and build this monstrosity, and I think that's accentuated by the fact that they want eighteen stories now with cracker box units. MAYOR VORESS: That's correct. MR. ROBERTS: Okay? In my living with this thing over the years, it seemed to me that what happened in 1980 is that they had an approved plan for 840 units and they came into the Commission as constituted at that time and said, listen, I'm going to change this. Some MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 27 1 people I think said too bad, you're going to do 2 that. And I think the threat was on behalf of 3 Hoffman at that time and his cohorts that if you 4 don't let me change these things, I'll go ahead 5 and build this monstrosity that you don't want. 6 Okay? And I've got the developers and the banks 7 and everything and I'm ready to go. And as I 8 read some of the discussions at the meetings, 9 well, isn't it better to give him 620 than have 10 him build 840 even if it means changing things 11 around. And I think that's still some of the 12 psyche that's built into their suggested changes 13 here is that to me the best agreement you could 14 have is one that everybody understands, and if 15 you come in here and say in accordance with 16 either the RPUD plan or the parameters, okay, 17 then that gives them the alternative to go back 18 to a plan which, you know, is never going to be 19 built but just is leverage and creates 20 confusion. If you agree upon the parameters, the 21 parameters should be it. 22 MS. MARIANO: Any discussion on 23 that? Or any ideas on it? 24I MAYOR VORESS: I agree. I think we 25' ought to just stick with the RPUD. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 28 MR. ROBERTS: The parameters you mean. MR. AUGENSTEIN: I guess we have to clarify that before we can even move. MR. ROBERTS: Right. MS. MARIANO: In addition, I think that would be an administrative nightmare for any building department to have to go back and try to figure out what exactly that RPUD really meant as they come in bringing plans and being in compliance with that plan so -- MR. RAND: Well, also the question they bring in Section 163.3164 about which we know nothing, and I think, Mrs. Mariano, you provided us with a copy of that. Right? MS. MARIANO: Yes. MR. RAND: Which has some onerous terms involved in it. Right? MS. MARIANO: I think if you look back at number one they wanted that and we omitted it then because of the problems. MR. ROBERTS: You know, to try to be orderly about it, I mean what is the consensus of the Commission about whether you want to stick with the parameters or you want to give them the MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 29 alternative of the RPUD plan? Anybody in favor of giving the alternative RPUD? VICE MAYOR PAUL: No. MR. RAND: Not me. VICE MAYOR PAUL: The parameters would have to be drawn as such that they are the bible on construction. MAYOR VORESS: I agree. MR. ROBERTS: It is a very broad range. I mean we're restricting them very little, and I just can't see any reason why and I'd like to hear the reason from them why. Perhaps they'll convince us otherwise. There's no reason to go back to that other plan. MR. RAND: Right. MR. ROBERTS: The next thing on infrastructure, this has had a lot of permutations over the years of what is meant by infrastructure, and the original agreement that they sent wanted the town to pay for all that infrastructure to meet concurrency and inconsistency within 270 days of the signing of the agreement, and since we don't know what that is, how can we commit to it? Now they want to again put this in about relating to this statute, MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 30 and the statute says, which Mary Ann obtained, I guess she gave you a copy of what public facilities is. MR. RAND: Yes. MR. ROBERTS: Means major capital improvements including but not limited to transportation, sanitary sewers, solid waste, drainage, potable water, educational. Educational, I mean there are no educational facilities here in the town, but if they build something that perhaps requires it, then, you know, where does that put you? I think it's one of these things that it doesn't give you any definition at all and you don't really know what you're committing to by that. I think the concept originally in the settlement was is that we had at one time complained of the inability to provide water and sewer hook-ups. MAYOR VORESS: That's correct. MR. ROBERTS: Throughout the course of the litigation they were concerned about that and we met that concern by saying that your time can be delayed if that's ever going to happen. We don't believe it's going to happen so it really doesn't mean anything, but if in fact it MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 31 did come down to the town and only the town being unable to provide that because as I'm sure you're all aware over the years that the water management district or whoever it is above us can, you know, cut off the spigot and there's nothing you can do about it, and we certainly didn't want to have to pay money because of that, and that kind of ties over into this other section that they want about anybody who stops or slows them you pay them money, and that's why you don't want to do that because you don't know what these other people are going to do. MR. RAND: Furthermore, this is a Florida statute. It's not a town ordinance. MR. ROBERTS: Right. MR. RAND: And it could be subject to change. MR. ROBERTS: Absolutely. MAYOR VORESS: Okay. Well, I don't think we ought to -- it said it's not limited to, so, you know, that's a wide open door. And I think we ought to fight that issue. MR. AUGENSTEIN: Perhaps they can specify Exactly what they mean or what do they want out of that. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 32 VICE MAYOR PAUL: We'd prefer to MAYOR VORESS: Water and sewer. MR. RAND: That's basically the only problem we see and we're giving them -- the cutoff is going to be extended as a result thereof, but to get involved in the other thing that they suggest here as defined in Section 163.3164, we have no control over those things. MS. MARIANO: Well, I think the other thing that you need to look at is the worst case scenario. The worst case scenario the way they drew it up if they went back to the RPUD if they get their building parameters and if they have someone -- if they go out and get somebody to develop under what they see here in eighteen stories with little cracker box apartments is right now and I don't think anyone -- we don't have any need for some of the infrastructure. We don't come within that under the state requirements, but if they would build something like that, for instance, and they became rentals and attracted a lot of families because of the size is small and certainly they're not going to rent for much and they get a different -- if we MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 33 get different demographics on that property -- MR. RAND: That's what you're going to get. MS. MARIANO: Our needs may be different and our requirements may be different when it comes to transportation and education and health systems. Then we may have to look at things under our current demographics we don't have to look at. MR. RAND: Right. MR. EYPEL: True. MR. RAND: Okay. MR. ROBERTS: The next one is on page eight. MR. RAND: Yes. MAYOR VORESS: I didn't see any substantial difference from what they suggested to what we had. I think it's just a matter of delineating what the cutoff date means, so I don't -- you know. MR. RAND: Where are we now? MR. ROBERTS: Page eight. MAYOR VORESS: They cut off only the explanation. MR. ROBERTS: They say only to MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 34 development that has not occurred prior to the cutoff date, and there is a definition of when something occurred in here. It occurs -- MR. RAND: Why would occurred be in quotation marks, Rusty? MR. ROBERTS: Well, it's because over on page six attached hereto and made a part hereof as long as development "occurs" prior to a date ten years after the order date provided. And then on page seven, for the purpose of determining when such development has "occurred", so long as an application has been made for a permit for the construction of every unit on or before the cutoff date, the time limitation set forth in this paragraph shall be deemed satisfied. That means as long as they've got their permits pulled by the cutoff date, they can complete -- there is provision here that permits shall have the duration specified in the town building code so they can go forever. But that's always a knotty problem on any cutoff date is when it happens because I mean you could rationally see if it was just an absolute date of ten years which was in the previous ordinance. MR. RAND: You don't see any MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 35 MR. ROBERTS: What happens if you got the building half up and you go, oop, ten years is up, sorry, you've got to stop here or destroy it. So I don't -- what we're talking here on page eight is that when it ends and the -- any land development regulations can be passed; however, they don't apply to that development, only to the development that has not occurred prior to the cutoff date which means it applies to anything that has not pulled a permit. MR. RAND: Okay. Do you see any that? Any consideration of the MR. ROBERTS: Yes, I do. What this goes back into, again the litigation, one of the claims that they made in the litigation about Ordinance 282 was that any cutoff date such as the ten years in Ordinance 282 is unconstitutional, that it was a limitation on their rights that had no rational basis especially when they made the argument, although the ordinance didn't provide that it went back to the original zoning, so in doing this agreement MUDRICI£, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 99 and the previous agreement I wanted to make sure that they waived any of those arguments in the future because we're again having a cutoff date. I don't think cutoff dates are unconstitutional as long -- because there's time limitations on all of them just inherently. You can change it at any time as long as you have a good reason, so we're just giving them something more than what other people would get. So the ten years it would go to what the zoning was on that -- in that district at the time of the ten years, but I want to make sure for your protection. The problem here is that they want to make that waiver only good if you fully comply with the stipulation. Okay? And so that leaves them the out that, well, they didn't comply so now I can argue that the cutoff date is invalid and unconstitutional, and, pardon my French, that's bullshit. You know, the consideration is entering into this agreement, and one of the considerations is you wait -- we're entering into this agreements at this time and it's got a cutoff date, that's the consideration of this time, not our future compliance with the stipulation. That just leaves them -- I think MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 37 the general comment can be made about most of their suggested changes is that they want to leave themselves a door open to go back in court and relitigate this. MR. EYPEL: So, Rusty, we want to strike that? We do not want that sentence? MR. ROBERTS: Right. MS. MARIANO: They can do this at any time in the next ten years. It can be nine and a half years and they can come back and say you didn't comply with something and go back to court. VICE MAYOR PAUL: Through the years way, way back this has been our stumbling block all along is continuing throwing in these things that they can come back for a second bite of the apple if somebody blinks wrong. MR. ROBERTS: Right. See, what I'm saying here on page ten, they didn't change paragraph 5a which says, "(except for that portion thereof owned by others, to wit: the south seven acres)." So I mean they can't be real strong on that issue if they didn't catch that one either. MR. RAND: Wait a minute. We're on MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 "a" 5a? MR. ROBERTS: 5a on page ten. There's no change there. That's what I'm pointing out. See right there? The third line down. MAYOR VORESS: That's the start of it. MR. ROBERTS: Right there it says to wit. MR. RAND: "To wit: the south seven acres." MR. ROBERTS: "Portion thereof owned by others, to wit: the south seven acres." MR. RAND: "As amended by the terms hereof." MR. ROBERTS: Do you see what I'm saying? MR. RAND: Yes. MR. ROBERTS: They didn't suggest that you change so why should we change the first part where it says this doesn't apply to Hoffman's property. MR. RAND: Okay. MAYOR VORESS: Well, the layered thing is where they're trying to excuse MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 39 themselves from complying with the codes and ordinances. That's no good, Rusty. To the extent they do not conflict with the development parameters or the terms of the stipulation. MR. ROBERTS: See, the plan here, going back to page ten, paragraph 5a, I thought it was important to them to have a continuous thing of the RPUD site plan for their concurrency and consistency problem, but I wanted them to be, which they agreed to, is that these parameters amend the RPUD site plan. This becomes the RPUD site plan. MAYOR VORESS: Yes. MR. ROBERTS: Okay? And I mean if they don't have a concern about there being a continuity, then, fine, just forget about it, but to the extent that there should be a continuity for their problems with anybody else in the state, this takes the place of the RPUD site plan, but the critical phrase there is takes the place. MAYOR VORESS: Okay. MR. ROBERTS: Okay? Again, over on page eleven, we've gone to great lengths here to say what specific codes would be applicable, and MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 it 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 40 it's the Standard Building Code. MAYOR VORESS: That's right. MR. ROBERTS: With county -wide amendments in effect at the time and Xeriscape Ordinances and Life Safety Codes in effect at the time the permit is drawn. Now, they say to the -- they want to say that if there is a conflict that the development parameters take precedence. MAYOR VORESS: And that can't be. We can't do that. MR. ROBERTS: If there is a conflict between the two, then clearly the Standard Building Code -- MAYOR VORESS: Has got to take precedence. MR. ROBERTS: -- has got to take precedence. I can't envision what it is, quite frankly, but if there is a conflict you definitely need the Standard Building Code to take precedence. MAYOR VORESS: We're going to have continuing tightening of those with hurricanes and all of those sorts of thing. MR. ROBERTS: If you know something violates the code. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 41 MS. MARIANO: We also have the coastal construction code on that side, the east side. MR. RAND: Rusty, on page eleven they did add up on the third line, I'm sorry, about three, six, nine lines down they added the word specifically, "that are specifically applicable." MR. ROBERTS: I didn't have a problem with that because that's in other places, too. MR. RAND: That's okay? But then they deleted -- four lines further down they deleted "of the entire property." MAYOR VORESS: That's correct, they did. MR. RAND: "May be built so long as the development of the entire property." According to my checking they have omitted that. MR. ROBERTS: Where is that? MR. RAND: That's in the middle of page eleven. You see where it says, "wherein any residential construction and related amenities may be built so long as the development" -- they have eliminated the phrase "of the entire MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 42 property". You see where it is? MS. MARIANO: That's right. Yes, they eliminated that. MR. RAND: They've taken that out. MAYOR VORESS: They took that whole thing out. MR. RAND: And I don't know whether that is that significant. MR. ROBERTS: Well, you know, again the -- MR. RAND: Why would that be? Because we're talking about the entire property. MR. ROBERTS: I don't know why they've taken it out other than trying to get more units in than that's there. I mean they are again trying to assert any confusion and say that there should be more when you're talking about the RPUD plan 620, and that's why we meant there -- MR. RAND: So we should question that? MR. ROBERTS: Absolutely. Because in your building parameters I think it's pretty clear which they didn't -- MAYOR VORESS: That's correct. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 43 MR. ROBERTS: They didn't change. The total number of dwelling units on the property or any subdivision thereof shall not exceed 427. MR. RAND: Right. MR. ROBERTS: So I mean -- MAYOR VORESS: They just took that sentence out of the entire -- part of the sentence. MR. RAND: They removed "of the entire property." MR. ROBERTS: I don't know why unless it's to create confusion because it's clear on the other one so that's why I said -- MAYOR VORESS: They'll put it back in. MR. RAND: Put it back in or have them explain why it's amended. MR. ROBERTS: Right. MS. MARIANO: Are we taking out the bottom of eleven? MR. ROBERTS: that. MAYOR VORESS: MS. MARIANO: Right. I said no to No. Okay. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 44 MR. RAND: Okay. MS. MARIANO: Maybe we need to come back to this page, to twelve. I already talked to the Mayor. VICE MAYOR PAUL: Thank you. MR. ROBERTS: So nobody gets upset about this, the note said, "Mary Ann, don't want to get locked in again by post office like we did last time." MS. MARIANO: Yeah. VICE MAYOR PAUL: That was from the Vice Mayor. MAYOR VORESS: The doors of the building locked is what that relates to. MR. ROBERTS: Okay. You want to come back to the money? MR. RAND: Yes, I would come back to the money later on. MR. ROBERTS: Let's do that. MR. RAND: That's obviously -- MR. ROBERTS: Paragraph seven is the impact fees and they consistently want to put in $1,300 a unit. VICE MAYOR PAUL: Where does that come from? It's $1,400 a unit just for water and MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 45 sewer hook-up per unit in 185. MR. RAND: We're going on the basis of the fees in existence at the time of July 185. Right? Whatever the fees were. But there's no way that you can determine whether it's 1,300, 1,500 or 1,800. How the hell do we know what it is? MS. MARIANO: Well, I went back to the 185 fees and we did a study on what they would be. MR. RAND: Right. MS. MARIANO: And approximately under 185 fees for 427 units the fees would total 1.245986. $1,245,986. MR. RAND: Right. MS. MARIANO: Under their scenario their fees are going to total $555,000. MR. RAND: So the question where the hell did they come up with this figure. And it shouldn't be mentioned. It's the fees in existence at the time, period. That's what the court ordered and that's what we agreed to. MS. MARIANO: Because electrical fees and plumbing fees are based on units, how many drops they have, how many plumbing fixtures. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 46 You can't determine that, but it's obviously more than 1,300 a unit, as the Vice Mayor said. In 1985 the connection fees alone for water and sewer were 1,400 without any others. MAYOR VORESS: Let's drop that out. MR. RAND: There's no need for it. MR. ROBERTS: All right. Page 13 in the approval procedures is what I talked about before, and I had just -- I don't know if it's on your copy or not. Yes, what's in all caps is just what I kind of -- MR. RAND: This is Rusty's -- this is your recommendation. MR. ROBERTS: Right. MR. RAND: That would follow "and, if so approved and executed, which must occur within ten days of approval by the town, and the town be notified of approval and execution in writing" -- I'm just repeating what our attorney has suggested on page 13 at the bottom. I'm just curious to know just where it would appear. In other words, it would be after "if so approved and executed" and then this sentence would follow. MR. ROBERTS: Well, I just -- yes, MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 47 it will be in there somewhere. Syntax wise it's not in final form. VICE MAYOR PAUL: Do you want to put business days or let them come up with that? MR. ROBERTS: However. I'm just picking it -- the thought is there and the language is not in final form, but before we go to that, you know, whatever is -- I think this is a -- if the concept's approved, then we'll have no problem with the language on this. MR. RAND: Let them decide whether it's calendar or business days. MAYOR VORESS: Let's talk about that in this sense. We will file for court order, as I understand it, when both parties sign some piece of paper or papers. Right? MR. ROBERTS: The settlement stipulation. MAYOR VORESS: Yes. And that will occur only after this action takes place, in other words, within the ten days. MR. ROBERTS: Right. MAYOR VORESS: Within the ten days we will have signed something, they will have signed something with the authority to sign it, MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 and then the settlement stipulation will go to the court, yes or no. MR. ROBERTS: Well, as the way I envision the procedure being here from the document is that essentially you'd have to have an agreement in principle by you all to start with to present this to the public and then present it to the public and then take a vote on it. MAYOR VORESS: MR. ROBERTS: If it got voted up -- MAYOR VORESS: MR. ROBERTS: to them that it's signed. MAYOR VORESS: court -- then. Vote it up or down. Vote it up or down. Right. -- then it's submitted Okay? And then it goes to MR. ROBERTS: No, it goes to RTC MAYOR VORESS: Yes. MR. ROBERTS: All right? And they sign it. And that's the ten-day period because if we just, as I said before, signed it and sent it to them with no time limit on it -- MAYOR VORESS: I understand. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 49 MR. ROBERTS: -- they could just sit MR. RAND: Right. MR. ROBERTS: All right? They get it. They have ten days, if they sign it in ten days and send you back the signed agreement and sufficient authority documents to show that the person who signed it is authorized to sign it, then thereafter it is submitted along with the -- MAYOR VORESS: There are several exhibits that need to be signed and then submitted to the Court. Correct? MR. ROBERTS: Absolutely. What would happen first then would be then a motion for relinquishment of jurisdiction would be submitted to the appellate court to relinquish jurisdiction but not to dismiss the appeal. MAYOR VORESS: I see. MR. ROBERTS: Okay? And we'll get to that later. I did not agree to that change because -- and I checked with Sam on this, if we sat up there and said here's a stipulation to relinquish jurisdiction and dismiss the appeal, the Court would then dismiss the appeal and what that would mean then is that the original MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 50 judgment would then be in full force and effect. Okay? And if they back out of it, you're sunk. Okay? If they find some pigeonhole. So we're not going to do that. We're going to go back to the District Court then, we wait till they relinquish jurisdiction, then you go back to the District Court and present your joint motion for entry of order of the settlement stipulation along with the satisfaction of judgment, and the Court, you know, either signs them and sends them back to you and sets a hearing or whatever to make sure that everything is kosher, signs it and once that's done, then the appeal will be dismissed and the Court will notify everyone involved -- once that order is entered which will approve this settlement stipulation and that becomes -- the settlement stipulation becomes an order of the Court, then the appeal will be dismissed and that will take the place of anything that's gone on before. Okay? And I again dispute and suggest that you not agree to their change about it simply takes the place of. Okay? MAYOR VORESS: Right. MR. ROBERTS: It's really kind of a MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 51 semantic, but I want to be crystal clear that there's going to be no reference to anything that's gone on before. Okay? Because again, when you do a settlement agreement like this, this is the document that controls your relationship, nothing that's happened before, and that's why I specifically wanted a satisfaction of all those previous orders and judgments so that realtors in town are satisfied and the lawyers in town are satisfied that that's clear as a matter of record that there are no outstanding judgments against the town, that the town has either paid the money or made provision therefor, however the case may be, and that the only thing that the town's obligation is just to live up to their obligations under the agreement. MAYOR VORESS: Okay. MS. MARIANO: I have a question with regard to that because it seems like there's almost a catch 22. Because, now, they -- and we'll get to it in here, but they have said they will not sign the satisfaction of judgment or the releases that should be entered with this for the court order until they get their money, and we MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 52 may not be able to get money because of the constitutional issues without it being an order. You know, because Mr. Schoech has said if the Court enters it as an order, if it's beyond the 2.5 million dollars, then we can go -- we don't have to abide by the referendum issues, but if they won't sign the things we need to submit the order until they get the money, there seems almost to be a catch 22. I don't know how we work that out, but we need to figure that out. MAYOR VORESS: We can ask them to loan us the money interest free for a while. It's simple to do that. MR. RAND: If they insist on that, then it will be an agreement that you lend us the money and we'll repay you within a period of six months interest free if that's what they insist on, but I don't think they will. I think we ought to insist that this has to be done after -- that the money will be paid within the time frame indicated after this agreement is signed by both parties. How the hell can we get the money? First of all, if it's five million dollars, we don't have five million dollars, so how the hell can we pay five million dollars at the time of MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 53 signing this agreement? We don't have that kind of money. It's going to take us time. MS. MARIANO: But what I'm saying even if they loan it to us, they are still an entity that we're borrowing -- even if it's them, if they're an entity we're borrowing from and under the Constitution we can't borrow from a bank, from a bonding company or from the federal government money that is required to be paid out with tax dollars which this has to be somehow or another -- MR. RAND: At one point in time. MS. MARIANO: -- at one point in time, what makes them different than Barnett or anybody else who's willing to loan us money if there's a catch. I mean we have to have the order. MR. RAND: Yes. Okay. Well, I think that we ought to explain to them that it can't be done, otherwise we'll have to go the referendum route which I'll tell them that in which case it will delay the execution and completion of this agreement. I'd tell them point blank. MS. MARIANO: Assuming a referendum MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 54 MR. RAND: Yes. And again assuming the referendum would pass. MR. ROBERTS: Well, again, number one, as far as their suggested language doesn't take into comprehension what the town can and cannot do. MAYOR VORESS: That's correct. MR. ROBERTS: I mean that is part and parcel to their other provisions that you said 5.5 million by federal wire transfer which cannot be done either. So I'm not as concerned about that, but, again, it's the principle involved. The principle is you sign the agreement and everything in the past is a done deal and we're not going back to that and you're not going to hold this over our head. We got a new agreement. We have agreed that that order will be an order of the Court, order and judgment of the Court, and if there's a time period paid out, let's say, for instance, we're going to pay so much now and so much over three years, you've got a judgment of a court requiring us to pay that. And that should be sufficient for anybody to -- if we don't pay it on that day, and that's MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 55 why I put in the provision, if we don't pay it, you simply file a motion to enforce and do whatever in the court. Okay? And that's going to be no different, and you may recall when we had that discussion up at the Hilton and they sat there and said I want this money and said you are no worse off by doing this than you would be with these satisfactions hanging over your head. In either instance you've got to go back to court. MAYOR VORESS: Well, we can discuss MR. ROBERTS: Sure. MR. RAND: I think we should be open and honest with them, just tell them that obviously you're not aware of the modus operandi involving our making of the payment of the funds as may be agreed upon here in that we may have to go the referendum route depending on how this thing is agreed upon. We must have a court order in order to avoid the necessity of a referendum, in which case we can pay you promptly, promptly being within the time frame that we indicated, a certain amount within a certain amount of time and the balance within ninety days or one hundred twenty days, in which case we don't run afoul of MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 56 the statute as mentioned by Schoech. Because as long as we're borrowing money for a period less than eleven months we don't need a referendum. We do need a court order. That is a condition MS. MARIANO: I think they've been advised of that and chose to ignore it. MR. RAND: I think we ought to remind them that there's no sense in kidding yourself. We just can't do it. We don't have five million dollars available that we can give you at the time we sign this. It is a physical impossibility. MAYOR VORESS: Well, we'll carry on this conversation. Let's move along. MR. RAND: Now, page fourteen, Rusty, number nine on the bottom they've added the word promptly on the fourth line from the bottom. You don't have that in yours. It doesn't make much difference. It just says will promptly make the appropriate changes. The fourth line from the bottom on page fourteen. You see, "Upon completion of the required amendment or any such other amendment, the town will" and add the word promptly. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 l 20 21 22 23 24 25 57 MAYOR VORESS: Right. MR. ROBERTS: The town will promptly. MR. RAND: Promptly make the appropriate changes. They've added that word in. MR. ROBERTS: Okay. MAYOR VORESS: This next one, that's a major change. What is your assessment here, Rusty, in general? Are they saying basically with all of this information they'll go back to the Court and open up the eighteen million dollar argument again? MR. ROBERTS: Sure. MAYOR VORESS: That's basically what they're saying, is it not? MR. ROBERTS: If any of the town officials, employees, departments or agents have taken any action which has materially impeded, interfered, impaired, stopped, that should be comma there, or slowed development of the property, okay, I'm entitled to go back and pursue any remedy -- MAYOR VORESS: That's correct. MR. ROBERTS: -- I want which would MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 mean back to square one. MR. ROBERTS: That's right. That's what that says. MS. MARIANO: And I think officials and the town, like you had had, if the defendant does it, what this says literally is that if Lee Leffingwell or Ethel does something and they feel they've been slowed down, they could go to court rather than say -- come to the Commission and say we've been slowed down by your building department, what are you going to do about it and we can handle it, they don't even have to do that. They can go straight to court if they don't like what Ethel did or don't like what Lee does or what I do or an agent. If one of our contracted inspectors are out there and it slows them down -- so this is really too open. MR. RAND: Well, first of all, any official can't adopt an ordinance. Okay? That's number one. that get us. action." MS. MARIANO: It's the next words MR. ROBERTS: It says "or take any MS. MARIANO: Any action. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 59 MR. RAND: Or take any action, but it's not any one official. No one official has the authority to take any such action. MS. MARIANO: Sure, if a plumber goes out there and a plumbing inspector says all your pipes are wrong and stops the job and makes them redo it and it takes them three months, they're going to say they slowed us down, they impeded us. Or if Lee goes out there or if Ethel says, I'm sorry, it's going to take the building official a month to review these plans for eighteen stories or whatever we wind up agreeing to, they can say that somebody, an employee slowed them down. That's what this says literally. MR. RAND: It's absurd. There's no question about it. It's not something that can be -- MR. ROBERTS: Or something like a Mayor writing a letter. MAYOR VORESS: Sure. MR. RAND: I think we should go back to what we said originally. MAYOR VORESS: Well, this piece in my opinion is written entirely by Judith MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 M Thomsen. That's been her point all along. And I think she's going to be here today so that's why we need to talk to her. MR. RAND: If there's a default under the agreement, our original proposal indicated that they had relief that they could go to the magistrate who has the power to order mandatory injunctive relief to specifically enforce this settlement. Okay? So they can sue on the basis of the settlement, but the implication here is that if there's any non-compliance with this that they could reopen any other judgment despite the fact that they're agreeing in the earlier part of the thing that they're agreeing to waive or relinquish any other judgment that has been rendered. So what's the point? MR. ROBERTS: It wouldn't be much of a leap for them to go in and say, listen, you know, these people agreed to settle this case and now they're screwing it up again, Judge, all you have to do is look back at what the previous judgment I had. And now all I'm asking for you is just to re -adopt that previous judgment because they've breached the agreement. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 61 MAYOR VORESS: And that's exactly what this piece says. And she's the one that initiated it. MS. MARIANO: Interestingly this came up when we were in West Palm Beach and they took it out and now they put it back in. MR. RAND: Let's tell them that it's unacceptable. That's all. There's no need for it. MR. ROBERTS: Well, they took out the part that, you know -- MR. RAND: The 1,000. MR. ROBERTS: That directly said they went back to the judgment and now they're just doing it indirectly. MAYOR VORESS: This is unacceptable. MR. RAND: Okay. MAYOR VORESS: Or other constraints. MR. RAND: What is other constraints? I don't understand that. MR. ROBERTS: I don't either. MAYOR VORESS: I don't know what that means. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 62 MR. RAND: So we need to question that. MR. ROBERTS: could that include taxes. MAYOR VORESS: wide open comment. MR. ROBERTS: taxing them? ambiguous. on? prohibitions. I put a note here, Yes, that's just a Would that include MR. RAND: It's too vague, too MAYOR VORESS: Yes. MR. EYPEL: What page is that MR. RAND: Page 17 at the top of the MR. EYPEL: Right. VICE MAYOR PAUL: Did we skip over page sixteen or there's nothing to do there? MR. RAND: Nothing to do there. MAYOR VORESS: There's nothing there. MS. MARIANO: That was all part of the remedy discussion from the previous one. MAYOR VORESS: The next thing gets under here under releases. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 63 MR. RAND: That's page nineteen is the next one. MAYOR VORESS: Here it is. MS. MARIANO: This is where I thought there was a catch. MR. RAND: Yeah, this is out. MAYOR VORESS: Yeah, this is where -- effective on the order date and they're talking about stipulation and payment. MR. RAND: Yes. We can't make the payment until we get the order. That's the whole theme of the whole process and I think we ought to be open and above board and explain why it has to be done that way. I would tell them point blank why it has to be this way. What difference does it make to you? You've got a binding agreement. All we're asking the Court is to approve this for purposes of withdrawing all of the judgments in the appeal process. That's the purpose of the court order. MS. MARIANO: Well, you know, even let's say we don't have to borrow two cents, even if in the best case scenario they would agree to our 2.5, we couldn't do it directly. MR. RAND: Exactly. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 64 MS. MARIANO: Because we would have to amend the budget, so even in the best case this would not be applicable to what we can do. MR. RAND: Okay. So it's got to be on the order date as we had indicated. Now, by all parties. I don't know where that comes from. MR. ROBERTS: That's another one of my additions there. MR. RAND: Oh, that's your addition. MS. MARIANO: That goes back to the point you made before that everybody has to sign it. MR. ROBERTS: Within three days of execution of this agreement by all parties the parties shall file a joint motion. MR. RAND: Okay. MAYOR VORESS: I believe they said dismissal of appeals in their piece there. You said for relinquishment of jurisdiction, and I believe they had a dismissal of appeals is what they had, Rusty. MR. ROBERTS: Well, they didn't change it in this part. They just changed it on MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0 65 the exhibit. MAYOR VORESS: I thought I saw something -- well, I thought I saw a piece in this piece here. MS. MARIANO: Yes, they did change it, Rusty, here. MAYOR VORESS: Rusty. MS. MARIANO: dismissal of appeals. MAYOR VORESS: Yes, they changed it, Within three days for Yeah, they said dismissal of appeals. MS. MARIANO: That's what we said before we were not going to do. MAYOR VORESS: That's what they said in this here. That's in their red line section. MR. ROBERTS: That's a page I didn't get. That's why. I only got up to page fifteen. MAYOR VORESS: Okay. They said dismissal of appeals in their piece. MR. RAND: Are we ready for -- on page 22 they're adding in now as a signatory Sentinel Communities. MR. ROBERTS: That's fine. I don't MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 M care. MR. RAND: Is that no problem? But then if they're going to request Sentinel Communities, why don't we insist that our insurer also sign the agreement? MR. ROBERTS: You know, it doesn't hurt you. It doesn't affect you one way or the other who signs on their behalf. MR. RAND: So you don't think that's any problem. Okay. MR. ROBERTS: They apparently have some reason that they want to continue the fiction that there is such an entity as Sentinel Communities. MS. MARIANO: Well, Mr. Ruggieri wants to come to Highland Beach again. MR. ROBERTS: Everything that they've ever signed was signed by Jay Hambric or somebody else from RTC. There never has been such a company so if they want to continue -- MR. RAND: But the only thing is in the beginning they say plaintiffs, Resolution Trust as receiver of Broadview Federal Savings and Sentinel Communities. So they're acting on behalf -- as receiver of Broadview and Sentinel, MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 67 so why does Sentinel have to sign it? MR. ROBERTS: I don't know. MR. RAND: But you don't see any problem with that. MR. ROBERTS: No. MR. RAND: Do you think then if they insist on this that we ought to insist that our insurer sign this or -- VICE MAYOR PAUL: No. MAYOR VORESS: No. The Exhibit B I think is the next one we're going to, is that right, development parameters? MR. RAND: I got Exhibit 1 as the next one. MR. ROBERTS: In Exhibit 1 is the next thing and the only thing that I noticed that's changed is the last sentence. They didn't change anything. It should be specifically excluded therefrom rather than specifically excluded from. VICE MAYOR PAUL: What's Exhibit 1? MR. ROBERTS: That's the property description. I didn't have that -- MR. RAND: I don't think you have that here. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 W.- MS. MARIANO: It's on the copy that you received Saturday that was delivered to you. It was in that one. VICE MAYOR PAUL: All right. MR. ROBERTS: They didn't make any changes in that, I don't think. The only thing I had to change, again reading over, is the last sentence, I mean the last paragraph, it should be "specifically excluded therefrom" rather than just "from". MR. RAND: Specifically excluded therefrom? MR. ROBERTS: Therefrom. MAYOR VORESS: Okay. MR. RAND: That's all the more reason why they shouldn't object to that. MR. ROBERTS: I went back and when I -- the reason I did this I was unsure as to what the description of the property was, and I went back to our expert Mr. Groover's work and this is the description he came up for the property, and I talked to him and he roughed it out and that's the property that we're talking about. If it adds together with the oceanfront parcel and excludes which contains 17 acres more MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 E. or less and excludes the south three hundred feet which was the Hoffman place. MR. RAND: Now we go to Exhibit A or Exhibit B? MR. ROBERTS: Exhibit A there was one change -- MR. RAND: The settlement stipulation -- MR. ROBERTS: I mean I don't really have a real big problem with that, but the difficulty is that perhaps they just didn't understand this is that the settlement stipulation -- MR. RAND: It's on the second pace of Exhibit A. MS. MARIANO: It's behind the parameters, Commissioner. MAYOR VORESS: It's page nineteen on the document we got from RTC. MS. MARIANO: It's out of order. It's behind B. MR. RAND: Exhibit B comes first and then Exhibit A. They have it in the wrong order. MS. MARIANO: Exhibit B is three MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 70 pages and the fourth page you'll see it starts Exhibit A. MR. EYPEL: Yes. MR. RAND: So you don't see any problem with adding of the settlement stipulation? MR. ROBERTS: Well, I just, quite frankly, think it hurts them because the input of this order is that that settlement stipulation is an order of this court and the courts always retain jurisdiction to enforce their orders, but -- MR. AUGENSTEIN: They have that 1,300 a unit again on B. MR. RAND: Well, there's a lot of things in B. They eliminated as per the ACOE permit. MAYOR VORESS: What is ACOE, Mary Ann? MS. MARIANO: Army Corps of Engineers. MR. RAND: What are your views on that, Rusty, on Exhibit B? MR. ROBERTS: The first thing is they've changed up at the top in the small -- MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 71 they said "are the rights and restrictions" and I don't have any problem with that. We put "per previous ACOE permit" in there simply because that's something that we knew, and I don't know what sort of issue that is any more, quite frankly. You would know better than I of whether that's something that concerns you or not as to the number of docks that they can put in there or the number of marina and seawalls. MS. MARIANO: I like the fact that they took it out because I think they'll get less permits now than they ever had previously because of the environmental issues between then and now, so I like the fact that they took that out because they'll get less now, I believe, than what they could have ever had before, so I would say fine with us that they took it out, leave it out. MR. ROBERTS: I mean -- MR. RAND: But isn't an ACOE permit MS. MARIANO: They will have to resubmit under the new -- if they don't have anything -- and, see, this technically I don't think that if -- even if this was in here, I MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 72 think if the permits have lapsed and they are not meeting the requirements or complying with the ACOE regulations today, I think our hands would be tied because they would not be able to do it regardless. We can't tell them to do something that the ACOE is not going to allow them to do, so, I don't think this makes a difference. I think they would have had to resubmit everything anyway and I think they'll get less because the requirements are greater now. MR. RAND: So you don't see any problem with that. MS. MARIANO: I don't see any problem with that. I think that's beneficial to US. MR. EYPEL: Mary Ann, under Exhibit B. 2(c), they have asked -- I assume the bold type is the RTC's request, roadways, parking areas, pools, tennis courts, shuffleboard courts and other structures which do not constitute a building are not subject to this setback requirement and may be built within the setback. As I recall, this could deal directly with the property on the ocean. MS. MARIANO: Yes. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 73 MR. EYPEL: If they wanted to put a shuffleboard court or a swimming pool right up against Mrs. Winn's property line, they very well could do that. MAYOR VORESS: That's correct. We just got her letter. Mr. EYPEL: Yes. I don't know. Is that something we would want to agree to? I don't see how we could allow them -- MAYOR VORESS: They can't put -- we can't agree to putting anything in the setback. VICE MAYOR PAUL: That's the whole story of setbacks. MR. RAND: That's the purpose of a setback. Precisely. MAYOR VORESS: But in A, Arthur, they want to go from sixteen stories to eighteen stories and they want to go from a ten foot to a twelve foot. MR. RAND: Right. MAYOR VORESS: That's fifty some feet to go up, like 56 feet, and then they don't want to include any air-conditioning units, parapets or any other architectural things on the top. So that takes them up to two sixteen plus MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 74 f eet . MR. EYPEL: How many feet? MAYOR VORESS: Two sixteen plus. MR. RAND: Two hundred sixteen feet on a basis of twelve feet per story as opposed to ten. Okay? MAYOR VORESS: And then they put that on the top of the building on top of that. MR. AUGENSTEIN: The parking stories is no more than twelve feet. I don't think the apartments are. MR. ROBERTS: The way it's written it could be either way. MR. AUGENSTEIN: I read it one way. MAYOR VORESS: I read they want twelve feet on everything. MR. AUGENSTEIN: Twelve feet on each apartment? MR. RAND: Well, it could be. It could be either way. MR. AUGENSTEIN: feet. That's ridiculous. VICE MAYOR PAUL: room ten by ten by twelve. Then having 1,400 A funny little MS. MARIANO: I think they mean it MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 75 for the whole building because if you look it talks about more than ten feet or one hundred sixty feet above the crown of the road. When we did it we took the ten feet as meaning for all sixteen stories. That's where the 160 came up. They have not put any maximum height at all and they just said up to twelve feet. MR. AUGENSTEIN: I think we have to address that. MAYOR VORESS: Oh, yeah. And they count everything. They say anything on top of that is not counted. And none of our codes allow that. MS. MARIANO: Our codes do allow for elevator and mechanical structures are not within the height limitations. Not parapet walls or architectural walls of parapets, but any of our height limitations exclude rooftop structures such as HVAC which is heating, air-conditioning and elevators so that's okay. MR. RAND: That part is okay. MS. MARIANO: That part is okay but -- MR. AUGENSTEIN: We have to clarify the height of the apartments. I took it to mean MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 76 twelve feet for each parking story. MS. MARIANO: Well, I think we need to decide whether we -- regardless if it's ten feet or twelve feet or five feet whether you want to allow the eighteen stories versus the sixteen. MR. RAND: He admits that this was never discussed before. It's a new -- it's a new request as such, and I was uncomfortable with the sixteen. Now they want to go to eighteen. And I personally am opposed to it. MS. MARIANO: Well, they also mentioned in the letter that it certainly is technically feasible for what we gave them to begin with, and this is what they agreed to in prior agreements was the sixteen stories. I mean I don't think that's ever really been a big contention. It's come up now. MAYOR VORESS: Well, that together with the fact they want to reduce substantially the size of the units. MR. RAND: The square footage, that's another problem. MAYOR VORESS: The square footage. MR. RAND: That's out, too. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 77 MAYOR VORESS: We're going to have a situation here where we've got small places and lots of people, and it's going to attract a different kind of community here in the town than we're looking for. MR. AUGENSTEIN: The ordinance is worse than our 1980 ordinances. MAYOR VORESS: I'm opposed to it. VICE MAYOR PAUL: We've got to protect our neighborhood even though it's small, and the biggest concern that's been voiced to me all through all this is getting something with little units and lots of people and destroying the character there. MR. RAND: Exactly. MR. AUGENSTEIN: Look what it will do to the traffic too. MR. RAND: Well, on B they've also taken off the development of the parcel or parcels east of us on A1A shall be limited to three buildings no more than ten foot stories. They've taken out the ten feet. MR. ROBERTS: Correct. MR. RAND: Which is also not acceptable because you leave that out they can go MUDRICI£, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 78 thirty feet. Who knows? MS. MARIANO : If they put fifteen foot ceilings they can go 45 in three stories. MR. RAND: So I don't think that should be allowed. MAYOR VORESS: I don't either. MR. RAND: They also on C they want a thirty-foot setback instead of -- MAYOR VORESS: Forty. MR. RAND: -- forty. Plus other wording that they have which is unacceptable. MR. AUGENSTEIN: They really cloud that up. VICE MAYOR PAUL: My objection when their first settlement came and they more or less said that the developer came in and could do anything they wanted to with the property and in effect they're trying to do that now by making this specific so humongous that the guy can come in and do anything he wants to again. I personally can't go with any of this new heighth or minimum floor space stuff. MR. RAND: Definitely. VICE MAYOR PAUL: I know we're starting -- this is new but the -- our figures in MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 79 here, the fourteen, eighteen, et cetera, we put in way back in discussion, I think it goes back to the agreement and was agreed upon, I think that was something we were in agreement with in 1991, and if I recall correctly, that's the reason we put those in is to have a fairly good sized, expensive development in that property. MR. RAND: Right. You know, we talked about 1,000 -feet bedrooms, you're talking an apartment that might sell for sixty or seventy thousand bucks. Okay? And I sure as hell wouldn't want to have 160 units in the building selling for that price. VICE MAYOR PAUL: For those of you that have been in my house, that would be -- you could make that into a three-bedroom apartment under what they're asking us for. Now, maybe you could get a single bed into the bedrooms. I don't know. MR. RAND: Well, I think what we had suggested 1,400, 1,600 and 1,800 is what we ought to stick with. I think the 1,200, 1,400 is out of the question. To me that would be a deal breaker. VICE MAYOR PAUL: And again we have MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 M this 1,300 per unit appearing. MR. RAND: That also is out and it's got to be sixteen stories like we said, not eighteen. And ten feet, not twelve feet. MR. AUGENSTEIN: Ten feet? MR. RAND: Well, ten -feet stories, not twelve -feet stories. They're asking for the height to be twelve feet for each story as opposed to ten. MR. AUGENSTEIN: Yes. Okay. MR. RAND: Doesn't our code now provide for ten -foot stories only? MS. MARIANO: No, because our code -- we go by overall height in our code. If we say if you're in an RE zone or a residential single-family zone, you have thirty feet so whatever you do within that thirty feet is up to you. If you want to make two fifteen -foot stories or if you want to make three ten -foot. MR. RAND: But the three buildings under B where they want to eliminate ten feet, we ought to eliminate that as well. MS. MARIANO: We want to leave the ten feet in. MR. AUGENSTEIN: Which one is that? MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. RAND: B. Item two. Height, density and set -back, B. They have eliminated the ten -foot limitation under 2 and we are saying no. And C the setback also there has to be forty feet. MAYOR VORESS: Well, they also -- also in the code thing they've deleted or as applicable to the development in ten and deleted that sentence, too. MR. ROBERTS: Where is that? I'm sorry. MAYOR VORESS: Under in seven, Rusty, applicable town codes, you said certificates of occupancy, development and impact fees as adopted by the town or as applicable to development in the town. They deleted as applicable to development in town and just deleted those words or as modified therein. That piece. MR. RAND: Yeah, they have taken that out. MAYOR VORESS: They've taken that sentence out, that part of that sentence out. MR. RAND: And I don't know why. MAYOR VORESS: Do you see where that MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 82 is? MR. RAND: Under item seven, Rusty. MAYOR VORESS: Under item seven. MS. MARIANO: You left it in yours. MAYOR VORESS: You left it in yours, but they took it out. MR. ROBERTS: I was confused by what that little thing meant there but I didn't -- MR. RAND: The bracket sign means -- MR. ROBERTS: The bracket means they took out but I don't know what they took out. MAYOR VORESS: That's what they took out. They deleted those, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight words, nine words. MR. RAND: And then the $1,300, that's out. MAYOR VORESS: The $1,300. MR. AUGENSTEIN: That's out. MR. RAND: Now we've got to go to Exhibit D I think is the next one. MR. ROBERTS: Before we leave that there was a -- over on the first one the dune walk -over structures, they had taken out to the extent permitted by other agencies. MR. RAND: Where is that, Rusty? MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 83 MR. ROBERTS: Number one, amenities. MR. RAND: Amenities. MR. ROBERTS: It's not the top part, it's number one, amenities. MAYOR VORESS: Number one? MR. RAND: Under Exhibit B, yeah. MAYOR VORESS: Yeah, dune walk -over structures. MR. ROBERTS: After dune walk -over structures add to the extent permitted by other agencies, they took that out. MR. RAND: The same reason as Mary Ann has for ACOE maybe. MR. ROBERTS: I don't know. MR. RAND: Mary Ann? MS. MARIANO: I don't think it makes a difference. MR. RAND: Okay. MR. AUGENSTEIN: What do they mean by a structure? MR. ROBERTS: All right. So then the forty -foot setback from State Road AlA. MR. RAND: That stays. MR. ROBERTS: Stays. MR. RAND: Right? MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MAYOR VORESS: Yes. MR. RAND: We all agree? VICE MAYOR PAUL: Yes. MR. ROBERTS: Set back from -- that they could make roadways, parking areas, pools, tennis courts, shuffleboard courts and other structures which did not constitute -- VICE MAYOR PAUL: No way. No way. MR. AUGENSTEIN: Where are we now? MAYOR VORESS: Rusty is just going through what we don't agree with and that was in section C under height, density setback. MR. ROBERTS: I guess the -- if you had a forty -foot setback from AlA, you'd have to have a roadway through it. MR. AUGENSTEIN: Here it is. Okay. That's out. MS. MARIANO: With regard to that, let's -- I mean that may be applicable on the west, but on the east -- and I'm just saying almost like cutting it in half, I don't know why we would not be agreeable to thirty-foot setback from AlA on the east. That's a narrower lot and that's what a lot of the other homes have now. I don't know that we need forty feet on the east. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 So we may be able to give them thirty feet. MR. RAND: On the east. MS. MARIANO: As a compromise. We can give them a thirty-foot setback on the east but forty on the west, so rather than tell them we don't like the whole thing, I think the east and west need to be treated differently when it comes to an AlA setback based on what else we have done in the town. MR. RAND: That's a good compromise. MR. AUGENSTEIN: The compromise is a minor one from what they're asking in here. MR. RAND: You don't have Exhibit D in here, Rusty. MR. ROBERTS: I want to get this here. They wanted to add roadways, parking areas, pools, tennis courts, shuffleboard courts and other structures which do not constitute building are not subject to the setback, but may be built within the setback. MR. RAND: That's out. MR. ROBERTS: Is out to everything or is there just some things that's objectionable? MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. MARIANO: Well, we should say that all amenities and other structures because there is a part in our code that allow pools in some structures, screened -in porches to be within setbacks. So we need to -- at least I think give them the rights everybody else has. I mean I don't want to take away rights that everybody else has, and under the code the setbacks, with regard to these I cannot say -- I don't think we should say are not subject to this setback requirement and may be built within the setback, but I think that we could say those things shall be subject to the amenities setback requirements as per the code because the code does give you -- you can put a pool in a setback. You can put a screened -in porch in a setback. Some of those things you can put if it's not a permanent structure. Some that they call expendable structures are allowed to be within setbacks. MR. RAND: Do you want to put in as permitted by existing code? Would that be 1985 code or this code? MS. MARIANO: I might be able to MR. RAND: Would it be the 1985 code MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 then? MS. MARIANO: No, I know in this code we allow some -- MR. AUGENSTEIN: We must have it in there because there's one in Boca High. MR. MARIANO: That was done separately with regard to zero lot. MR. AUGENSTEIN: It was under a settlement, right. VICE MAYOR PAUL: I think your Boca High settlement is one reason we ought to be very careful on the settlement situation. MR. ROBERTS: Can we take a brief recess, Your Honor? MAYOR VORESS: Okay. (A brief recess is taken.) MS. MARIANO: Okay. In looking at this just, for instance, pools and pool decks, swimming pools are allowed within ten feet of the setback so I think we need to put a provision that any amenities -- amenity buildings or structures or the things they're talking about shall be governed pursuant to the setback requirements of the code. And we can explain to them that some of these are more liberal than MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2C 21 22 2. 2� 2� even what they have in there, and we can read them this, for instance, if they want to know that. Because they're really tying their own hands with that and we don't want that in there the way it is, but we can say that we'll be governed by existing code, the amenities only. MR. ROBERTS: Why don't you just say subject to a ten -foot setback requirement. I think they might be somewhat skittish about making reference to some code that can change. VICE MAYOR PAUL: Change, yeah. MR. AUGENSTEIN: But we can change the code if we make a deal. MR. RAND: It has to be the '85 code. MR. ROBERTS: No, if you say it's subject to the setback requirement of the town code in effect at that time. MR. AUGENSTEIN: At that time. MR. ROBERTS: But I'd hate -- I think it's much easier to just say right in here then make it reference back to some code to decide what that code means at the time so -- r VICE MAYOR PAUL: Or just put in i what's in our code now, not even reference the MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, NationsBank International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street Na1 Financial Plaza 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palrn Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 r 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 code. MS. MARIANO: Or just say subject to this setback -- are not subject to this setback requirement and may be built within the setback but in no event closer than ten feet to any abutting property. MR. RAND: Okay. MS. MARIANO: Something like that. MR. ROBERTS: Or subject to a ten - foot setback requirement. MS. MARIANO: Okay. MR. RAND: Yeah. Are we done with that, Rusty? MR. ROBERTS: Yes. MR. RAND: On Exhibit D -- MR. ROBERTS: Just so I'm clear here, no as to their suggested -- MR. RAND: Square footage. MR. ROBERTS: -- square footage. MAYOR VORESS: Right. MR. ROBERTS: We want to leave applicable town codes. We want to leave the language in that they took out. Right? MR. RAND: Right. MR. ROBERTS: No to the 1,300 a unit MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 IM M in paragraph seven. MAYOR VORESS: Right. MR. AUGENSTEIN: Are we stuck into the one and a half parking lots -- parking spaces? MR. ROBERTS: I don't tnink there was a change there. MR. RAND: No, there was no change. MAYOR VORESS: No, there was no change there. MS. MARIANO: And that was what the park requirements were in 185. MR. AUGENSTEIN: In 185, yeah. That will make a lot of havoc. MR. RAND: C there's no change. MR. ROBERTS: Just tell us where you can find that half car. Exhibit C I believe is unchanged. MAYOR VORESS: Correct. MR. RAND: Rusty, on Exhibit D they suggest a joint motion for and they add the word dismissal of appeals and court order. Is that a problem? MR. ROBERTS: Yes, it is. Saying we're not going to dismiss the appeal until it's MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 91 all squared. They wanted to dismiss it first, so that's a no. MR. RAND: So we leave out dismissal of appeals. MR. ROBERTS: Correct. MR. RAND: So that's out. MR. ROBERTS: Next was Exhibit E. MR. RAND: I have a problem with that ordered and adjudged in the second paragraph. We had jury verdict of thirty-one million one fifty and they have deleted that and substituted special jury verdict dated March 4, 1992. Now, I don't know. Are we talking about the same thing? MR. ROBERTS: Right. MR. RAND: It is the same thing? MR. ROBERTS: I'm going to ask him why. Quite frankly, I don't know that it makes a big difference but verdicts are generally not controlling of anything, but I thought it's interesting that they want everything else in there but they don't want that in there. MAYOR VORESS: The thirty-one million five. MR. RAND: But that was a mistake. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 92 That was a mistake which the judge made which he amended. Right? That was the initial order and then he changed it. And then changed it again. But those actually were verdicts that were rendered, but if they want to put in special jury verdict then I think they should say special jury verdict of 31,150,000 dated March 4, 1992. MR. ROBERTS: Well, let's leave it at this. Let's ask them why. MR. RAND: All right. MR. ROBERTS: I can suppose that they are not -- do not feel that the verdict was for 31.150. They're certainly arguing that it was not. Okay? MR. RAND: But the initial verdict was for 31 million, Rusty. MR. ROBERTS: John, we could, you know, argue that point till doom's day as to whether it was or wasn't, so I don't know that it really makes a difference. MR. AUGENSTEIN: We never discussed the money. MR. RAND: Oh, we're not finished. VICE MAYOR PAUL: We haven't gotten there yet. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 93 MAYOR VORESS: They've got a whole knew paragraph added. MR. RAND: On page two of that exhibit they're adding it is furthermore. VICE MAYOR PAUL: I don't have this Exhibit E. MR. RAND: It's Exhibit E in your set from them. MR. ROBERTS: That's the one I did not have. MR. RAND: That's the set from them. MR. ROBERTS: I've got it now. MR. AUGENSTEIN: Which set, John? MR. RAND: The set that we collected, not the one Rusty is giving us now, it's from the set that they sent us. MR. AUGENSTEIN: Then what page are we on? end. MR. RAND: Exhibit E, it's at the VICE MAYOR PAUL: E as in easy. MR. RAND: E as in Edward. VICE MAYOR PAUL: No. MR. AUGENSTEIN: No, I haven't got MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 94 it either. MAYOR VORESS: Here, it's on the last page of this -- remember this document that says I do not understand what all these numbers are, page numbers. Look at the last two pages. That's Exhibit E. MR. AUGENSTEIN: Okay. MAYOR VORESS: Found it? MR. AUGENSTEIN: Yes. MAYOR VORESS: Okay. MR. RAND: You got it, Bill? MAYOR VORESS: That's it, Bill. MR. RAND: Arthur? MR. EYPEL: I'm looking. MS. MARIANO: It's page thirty. MR. EYPEL: I got it. MS. MARIANO: It's page 30. 29, 30. MR. RAND: They've added in the paragraph, "It is further ordered and adjudged that this order has been entered in pursuance of a separate settlement stipulation entered by the parties and final order and decree approving such settlement rendered by this court which shall henceforth control in place of the judgments and the order to satisfy above." How do you feel MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 r 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 95 about that, Rusty? MR. ROBERTS: Well -- MS. MARIANO: It seems like it helps us almost. MR. ROBERTS: Well, it's really kind of a duplication, quite frankly. MR. RAND: It's redundant. MR. ROBERTS: Because this cause came on before the Court upon the stipulation of parties for settlement and duly advised of the stipulation. I think it's just duplicative, quite frankly, and I don't like the shall henceforth -- not that I don't agree with that, but it shall henceforth control what? MAYOR VORESS: In place of the judgments and the order to satisfy -- MR. ROBERTS: See, the thing of it is that they're trying to tie the two together. Okay? And I'm not -- I want to avoid tying one as being a replacement of the other, and, again, it's in semantics, but I hate to get into these semantics wars because I don't know where they're coming from. You have satisfied those judgments, they're gone. You have a new agreement. MAYOR VORESS: Yes. MUDRICI£, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -9 MR. ROBERTS: You have a new judgment. And I don't want there to be attempt by some order that -- this judge is just going to sign this without reading it, you know, so I don't want to give them a basis of -- I think it's duplicative and I think it gives a wrong implication and I would be against it. MR. RAND: The whole paragraph? MR. ROBERTS: Right. Back to money. MR. RAND: Money money money makes the world go around. VICE MAYOR PAUL: I would hope that when we get into the discussion of this with them that any movement we make is in very minute or maybe not minute but small increments, no giant steps forward. MR. AUGENSTEIN: Well, are we going to go over these one by one? MR. ROBERTS: Well, I think that, you know, the first concept here seems to me is the amount. You have -- they previously said they'd be willing to settle for five and a half million, you offered two and a half million dollars payable in two installments, and their MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 97 response simply was I want five and a half million dollars. MR. RAND: Up front. MR. ROBERTS: Up front. MR. RAND: Before signing. MR. ROBERTS: On the day of signing. MAYOR VORESS: Well, that's not quite right, Rusty. The first offer was a sliding scale tied to the sales price of the property. At nineteen million dollars is the five and a half. At twenty-two which they think they could get for the property it was four million and at twenty-five it was two million. That was the deal. And that's what we wrote them back. VICE MAYOR PAUL: What offer was that? MAYOR VORESS: Right here in this letter by Mary Ann. That's the thing that we brought -- that I brought back when John Douglas and I talked with him in Valley Forge. MR. AUGENSTEIN: This says sliding scale. Do we pay less if they get more? MAYOR VORESS: That's correct. MUDRICI£, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 W.- MR. RAND: The sum due would be contingent upon what sales price they got for the property. MAYOR VORESS: That's right. And this deal was that we paid them two and a half million dollars on the satisfaction of the agreement, whether it's stipulation or court order, and that then we would pay them the latter of either twelve months later or when the property was sold the difference between the two million and the five five or if they sold it for twenty-five we'd pay them more money. This sales price relationship came about as a result of a discussion with Jay about what you think the best price is you can get for the property, and he said if everything goes right, we think we can get twenty-five million. What's the worst? And he said, well, if all the world falls in on us, we think the bottom line we can get is nineteen. What is the average price you expect to achieve? And he said it's twenty-two. And so this scale was developed to say, all right, under the concept of fairness that we would try to reimburse them for any of their out-of-pocket costs, and that's more than this, we will pay you MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 11 less money as you get more for the property but not change it so much that they say, well, we might as well sell it for either nineteen or twenty-five and get the same number. So that's where the concept came from. The reason it changed to five five is because in discussions with them when Mary Ann and Rusty and I were up there and the concern about whether we had the right to dedicate money right away and pay it right away or under a sliding scale where we have to get -- where we're committing future commissions and we didn't know how all that was, Jay said, okay, just pay it all in one bloody blow and it's five and a half million dollars. That's where that came from. But the first offer was a sliding scale. MR. AUGENSTEIN: Correct. MAYOR VORESS: And that's the way that worked and that's the way we wrote back to them to say -- that's Mary Ann's letter to Jay which I think all of you have. MR. RAND: I think before we agree to any amount I think we ought to establish first the procedure and the requirement for such a procedure be adopted. Regardless of what the MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 100 figure is that we decide upon they have to understand and agree that this agreement must provide for that payment to be made only after the court orders us to do so. MAYOR VORESS: I agree. MR. RAND: This is a condition sine qua non because we can't pay the money, we don't have the money to pay up front without going through a referendum which creates further delays and so forth, so that's the first condition, that the payment will be made whatever the figure is that we agree upon only after the court order -- the court issues the order as requested here. Now, that should be no danger for them. We're making an agreement with them, and as Rusty said, the Court is going to sign this without even looking at it, so we don't anticipate that the Court would object to something like this. MR. AUGENSTEIN: What amount are you talking about? MR. RAND: We haven't talked about it. We're just saying whatever the amount is, this is how we want it to be established. And that the payment should be made only after the Court issues an order agreeing to implement the MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 101 settlement that we reach. That's all I'm saying. MAYOR VORESS: You're not talking about amount of money. MR. RAND: How the -- MR. AUGENSTEIN: Is that mandatory the Court has to implement a settlement? MR. RAND: You avoid the Florida statutes and the problem of referendum and being able to borrow money, okay, if you do it without a court order you've got a legal problem. Okay? MR. AUGENSTEIN: Right. MR. RAND: That you may not be legally able to do something like that because you are in effect pledging the ad valorem taxation base of the town, and you cannot do that without a referendum or a budget hearing. Okay? MR. AUGENSTEIN: I understand. MR. RAND: So we circumvent that problem by virtue of the Court ordering us to make this payment based on a settlement that we've agreed to. So that's step number one. Step number two, I don't want to have sort of like an installment payment, that we give you so much now and then we'll give you $500,000 in one year, 500,000 in two years or MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 102 three years. I want to reach a figure with them that we all agree to and that we pay them what we can, what is immediately available to us, and the difference is payable say within ninety days or six months. If they want their money immediately after the court order, then I think fine, then lend us the money and give us the right to repay you within six months at no interest. If that's what they want. Okay? In which case we would have then six months to arrange for a funding, a bond issue, borrowing from a bank on a bridge loan basis or whatever the case may be if that's what they insist on. MR. AUGENSTEIN: Well, I'd like to know what the amount is going to be before I could say yes or no to that. Repay how much? MR. RAND: It doesn't change how we're going to do it. We're not talking about what the amount is. MS. MARIANO: Only if it's above 2.5 will we get into that. MR. RAND: If it's over 2.5 and I assume this is what they're going to request. How much is an issue. We're not going to jump at whatever they suggest. We're going to go in MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 103 stages. MR. AUGENSTEIN: Do we have the 2.5 to give immediately? MR. RAND: We have the 2.5. That we can do. Right? MS. MARIANO: With a million from the insurance. MR. RAND: insurance and -- With a million from the MR. AUGENSTEIN: Is that definite or not? I don't know. The last I heard there was no definite commitment. MR. RAND: You have that. That's available. Right, Mary? MS. MARIANO: Right. MR. RAND: The million and a half is available from our reserves. MR. AUGENSTEIN: The one five. MR. RAND: The one five is available. MR. AUGENSTEIN: That would be two five. MR. RAND: And a million from the insurance, 2.5, so the difference over that figure is what we have to arrange for, whatever MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 104 that difference may be. MR. AUGENSTEIN: Well, let's decide what that difference may be. MAYOR VORESS: Okay, Bill. VICE MAYOR PAUL: Going back to this letter they're taking as our agreement this was a letter from the Town Manager saying what she would be able to recommend to us at that time so this has never come to us for any action of approval or disapproval. MR. RAND: That's what he's going to tell him, Bill. MAYOR VORESS: This is no agreement. I would just say that there was a range of payments. VICE MAYOR PAUL: Right. But I mean this is -- MR. RAND: But that was never agreed. VICE MAYOR PAUL: It was responded to so -- MAYOR VORESS: It was never said that it was agreed to. This letter says from the Town Manager send us something consistent with the proposal. So there was never any agreement. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 105 MS. MARIANO: That's why I said at that time because that certainly was before the oral arguments and before that we received additional input from our attorneys and what they felt the case was worth. MAYOR VORESS : Before all of that. MS. MARIANO: That was before any of that. That's why those words are important that at this time, you know, that would be something that may be considered and never was, as the Mayor said, by the board as a whole. MR. RAND: You can approach this, this is obviously a matter of negotiation, it's a question of how far they want to go and how far we want to go, and I think, as I mentioned before, a good deal is one where both parties are satisfied or, as Commissioner Augenstein said, a good deal is one where both parties are dissatisfied. Okay? So it's a question of how far are you prepared to go. We were willing to give them two and a half million. They said they wanted five and a half million, so is the next step to split the difference and come up with four? VICE MAYOR PAUL: Four. Too fast. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 106 Too fast there. MR. RAND: Well, then how do we approach it? What do we say? MR. EYPEL: Can I ask a question? Who's got the ball -- when we invite these people back in, are they going to give us -- we're going to give them, excuse me, we're going to give them the results of our meeting here today. MAYOR VORESS: Correct. VICE MAYOR PAUL: Rusty is going to communicate with them. MAYOR VORESS: That's what we agreed to. MR. EYPEL: We've talked about everything except the money. Now we're talking about the money. MAYOR VORESS: Correct. MR. EYPEL: We offered them 2.5 million. MR. RAND: Right. MR. EYPEL: Don't you think that it would be in our best interests to have them counter to us first? MR. RAND: They did. They said five MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 107 and a half million dollars. MR. AUGENSTEIN: They said as per agreement and yet we've never had an agreement. MAYOR VORESS: That's wrong. We're going to challenge them on that. MR. RAND: The agreement they sent us says they want -- in other words, they're responding to our two and a half million by saying they want five and a half million. That's their response. MR. AUGENSTEIN: The response was as per agreement. MR. RAND: No, they sent us this draft right now, okay, which they've asked us to pay them 5.5 million by federal wire transfer upon execution of this agreement. MR. AUGENSTEIN: We still have these twenty odd issues to straighten out with them on the agreement. MR. RAND: That goes without saying. We're trying to figure out amongst ourselves how far we're prepared to go. VICE MAYOR PAUL: Next, our comment on the money issue when it comes to it, they wrote us a letter in 1991 saying that it would MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 not be fair for the other -- they needed all this money, and this is the point we're only talking about $75,000 or so, but it wouldn't be fair for them to move off that to make other U.S. taxpayers subsidize the taxpayers of Highland Beach. Yet in later conversations they turn around when we're trying to say and use the argument saying but, look, you've settled with other people for ten cents on the dollar, well, as I understand the conversation has been, but, yes, we need to get it where we can to make up for where we can't get it, so, in other words, it's all right for them to make the Highland Beach people subsidize the losers, but it's not all right for somebody else to help subsidize us as one of their arguments for -- as I see it. MR. AUGENSTEIN: I agree with your ethics. MAYOR VORESS: We need to come to a number. MR. AUGENSTEIN: we? apart. That doesn't help. How far apart are MR. EYPEL: Three million. MAYOR VORESS: We're three million MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 109 VICE MAYOR PAUL: Let's try it in $500,000 leaps. MR. ROBERTS: Well, if you want my input -- MR. AUGSTENSTEIN: Absolutely. VICE MAYOR PAUL: Please. MR. ROBERTS: It seems to me, everything else considered, that they made a proposal and we met on that proposal, and I think before that meeting transpired that everybody was pretty much in agreement that this sliding scale really meant nothing to us because it's not in anybody's comprehension that they'll ever sell this property as is for anywhere over ten million dollars so really that sliding scale meant nothing other than just show dressing. And the proposal was, well, forget the sliding scale, thank you very much, and we want five and a half million cash and then we met and responded and said we'll offer you two and a half million cash within the time period, and their response is I want five and a half million in cash now, the same response that they previously made. My suggestion was if you want to negotiate, negotiate, you come off your figure before we do MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 110 ours. We're not going to bid against ourselves and which I think they want you to do. And I think that the posture is that we're giving you cash as quickly as we can, but if you want to go beyond that figure, it's -- first I think you ought to come up with the figure, and, second of all, we've got to talk about how we're going to get it to you. And it's not going to be by wire transfer. What can you live with? And it seems to me that the discussion that entailed the last time we met or the time before that that we met in executive session is probably the most painless way would be to make installment payments over a period of years which could be funded by simply raising taxes, and I think that probably -- you would probably be better served by having them here to simply discuss, listen, what is it you absolutely have to have. We cannot give you the money by wire transfer. So talk about something else, some other method of payment. MR. AUGENSTEIN: Why don't we hear what they have to say? MR. ROBERTS: Yes, and quite frankly I mean -- I'm just aghast that these people need MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 this money right away because it's a government agency that's got billions of dollars and we've gone over before this is a drop in the proverbial bucket to them, that Judith Thomsen called me yesterday and said her pleasantries and said, well, we want to change the agreement to some extent because the RTC is going to be involved in seller financing in this, and either the RTC or FDIC will be involved in the long haul. Well, you know, they're not even going to get nineteen million in cash for the deal. They're going to get seller financing. Well, if they can finance it to any guy that walks down the street, why can't they seller finance to the Town of Highland Beach? Why is it that we've got to pay the money up front? VICE MAYOR PAUL: Right. MR. ROBERTS: Okay? I mean that's what makes sense to me. MAYOR VORESS: I think they'll do that. MR. ROBERTS: I think they will, too. This letter doesn't say anything about that. Okay? MAYOR VORESS: I would suggest that MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 112 we follow what Rusty is saying. Remember, we're going to have a position where we can break to have discussions, and I think what we're lacking here is some input from the RTC -- MR. AUGENSTEIN: Exactly. MAYOR VORESS: -- about this issue and once we get that input we'll ask for a break where the Commission can discuss what has gone on and the RTC can discuss. They may indeed decide to have a break earlier to discuss something, so I think we need to follow Rusty's idea, get their input and then break for discussions based on what the information we've received from them. MR. AUGENSTEIN: As Rusty suggested, let's ask them what do you want. MAYOR VORESS: I think we can do that. MS. MARIANO: I think we ought to do it in the same fashion we just did this meeting. Skip over it and leave it for last because if we don't get by some of the other items, the money is not going to matter. MR. RAND: It's going to be last because otherwise you're liable to cancel the meeting right on the spot. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 113 MS. MARIANO: That's what I'm saying. If we can't get over some of the other deal breakers that are in here, then there's no sense discussing the issue of money, where we're going to get it or anything else. MR. RAND: I think, Rusty, my suggestion would be to tell them we'd like to discuss various aspects of the proposal and leave the monetary consideration and the density or height situation until the end because it would mean more time that way. MAYOR VORESS: Well, let me say this. It's five o'clock. They've been there for two hours sitting there. Remember, I said to you we'll invite the people to the meeting and introduce everybody here, tell them how the town would like to proceed with the discussions, and we're going to have Rusty do that, and he can cover that and I do want to comment on the objection to set the stage that we haven't agreed to 5.5 million dollars and turn to Rusty and then he can in turn say this is the way we'd like to do it. We would like to handle these issues first and then we would like to handle last the building parameters and the money. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 114 MR. AUGENSTEIN: I agree with that. MAYOR VORESS: Everybody agree with that? MR. RAND: Yes. VICE MAYOR PAUL: Counsel? MR. ROBERTS: Fine. MAYOR VORESS: If we can just perhaps adjourn for a few minutes and I'll go get them. MR. ROBERTS: Okay. (A brief recess is taken.) MAYOR VORESS: If we could reconvene the meeting, I'd like to -- MR. ROBERTS: Maybe just for purposes of the record before we do that as a continuing and reconvened session of this executive session, we have invited in representatives of the plaintiffs appellees in the matter of Town of Highland Beach versus Resolution Trust Company. And those persons are Chris Yates, James Hambric and Judith Thomsen. The time is 5:15 and the -- in my view the session will continue to be confidential as to the public even with the invitation of these people in because it deals with negotiation of MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 115 MAYOR VORESS: Thank you. I'd like to welcome you here today and introduce you to the members of the Commission. Starting from my right is Dave Augenstein, Arthur Eypel, Vice Mayor Bill Paul, me you know, Arlin Voress, Commissioner John Rand, Rusty Roberts, who is acting as Town Counsel, and Mary Ann Mariano, the Town Manager, and on that side Chris Yates, Jay Hambric and Judith Thomsen, so we welcome you here to the meeting. And I'd like to discuss with you how we'd like to proceed with the meeting and then see if that meets your objectives. If it doesn't let's talk about that. What we would like to do, we have had a previous discussion about the response you have given to the town, and we have discussed issues that arise from that document, and we have asked the Town Counsel, Rusty Roberts, to be our spokesman so he will listen to all of us, although each one of the commissioners will have the right to add to or subtract from anything that's said if that's all right with you, and you'll have the right to say anything back MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 116 obviously. And we'd like to say that if at any time during the discussions you'd like to have a break for a conference on either side, we'd be glad to do that. If you all wouldn't mind using that other room you were in and we'll use this one to maybe get some determination on some issue that may arise, we'd like to do that. Is that satisfactory to you? MR. HAMBRIC: That's fine. MAYOR VORESS: We probably will go along for a while so I might ask the Town Manager what choices we have for something to eat and what you all would like to do. MS. MARIANO: Well, we can either break and everybody can leave and go their separate ways for dinner and then come back or I guess we can order from the Holiday Inn and we could order the guys to deliver from the restaurant, I guess, or -- we all know that menu by heart, I think. Or whatever you all decide you'd like to do. VICE MAYOR PAUL: Probably just leave the premises for a time because we'll need to stretch and breathe some other air. MS. MARIANO: Let me just do one MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 117 other thing for the benefit of our stenographer. VICE MAYOR PAUL: Set a time for return. MAYOR VORESS: I'll wait for Judith and Chris to come back and I've got one more comment and we'll see if we can't get started. We do indeed have a court reporter taking down all the information, and at some point in time this will all be public record. MR. ROBERTS: Just maybe you're not familiar with this session, it's required by statute that we have a court reporter here. That transcript is -- a transcript will be made but it will be kept confidential until the conclusion of this litigation, and at that time it becomes a public record. MR. HAMBRIC: I'll make sure I don't say anything I don't want anyone to know. MAYOR VORESS: You want us to wait till Judith comes back? MR. HAMBRIC: She should be back in just a second. She was needing to call someone to let them know her timing, so just give her a couple of seconds. It shouldn't take her long. MAYOR VORESS: Jay, I did receive on MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 118 Saturday your document I think transmitted by Judith and probably signed by Judith, too, I guess, saying that this is the draft that I had asked you for, that there were some changes in the development parameters, you hadn't had a chance to talk to us. The last sentence in there said, "In earlier conversations I have already notified you that our revision would reflect the monetary settlement we reached with the town." I must tell you that I'm not aware of any monetary settlement. I know there's some offers, but you had not reached any monetary settlement with the town. MR. HAMBRIC: You've seen a .ieLLer 1 haven't seen yet so -- MAYOR VORESS: I understand. MR. HAMBRIC: Okay. MAYOR VORESS: I just -- as a matter of record we don't have any monetary settlement. We have proposals going back and forth, but there is none there. MR. HAMBRIC: All right. MAYOR VORESS: With that introduction I'd like to turn to Rusty and ask him to start the conversations. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 119 MR. ROBERTS: Well, basically we have discussed for the first time this afternoon the proposals that were submitted to the town and myself on Friday afternoon or Friday evening last, and what I think to be orderly about it what we propose to do is to go through those areas that you have suggested changes, deletions and have a discussion about those to tell you what we would agree with and wouldn't agree with and find out, and basically to keep that order is to first go to those portions of the agreements and exhibits and then to the building parameters since there have been suggested changes there as well, and then finally if there's success there, talk about money. MR. HAMBRIC: Okay. MR. ROBERTS: On the first page, and I'm kind of going on -- it really might not dovetail with yours because what I've done for the Commission is take a copy of the agreement that I prepared and inserted in there those portions that you have -- when I say you, being RTC, have suggested the change and added in those areas that suggested deleted. The first one is in the first paragraph it talks about your MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 120 addition of the stipulation of settlement or the agreement. Our only thought was that if we wanted more than this stipulation just to say the settlement stipulation to try to keep a consistency amongst the terms that are used. If you want to expand it to settlement stipulation, that would be fine. Not that there isn't a settlement agreement but the fact the more you add and the more you figure into it, the more confusing it gets. MR. HAMBRIC: Judith, I'm going to defer to you because you've got the language. MS. THOMSEN: Now, is the game plan for us to respond or do you want to go through your changes? MR. ROBERTS: However you want to handle it. If it's something you want to talk about or -- MR. HAMBRIC: You want to do it as we go through each paragraph? MS. THOMSEN: No, I'd probably rather go through it in whole and see what their changes are. MR. HAMBRIC: I'll defer to you. MR. ROBERTS: All right. The next MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 121 change that appeared was on -- it would be paragraph one, parties and property affected, and in there we had described the property and we don't have any problem to adding the more or less that you had suggested there on those two occasions. But we did want to discuss the deletion of the next sentence starting off the remaining seven acres, and as a general principle we have a concern that because the RPUD as initially drafted and as amended in 1980 included the south seven acres of the south three hundred feet and to the extent that this document amends that plan which is our feeling that you probably find that necessary for that plan to be amended to thwart any problems you might have with concurrency or consistency or something else, and I think a lot of that language that has been employed is not objectionable to us because it goes to that problem which we've discussed over the years. We just wanted to make sure that it was crystal clear that this agreement has absolutely no effect on the south seven acres which we understand are owned by Mr. Hoffman and that -- and on each occasion that we can we've attempted to in this agreement simply to identify MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 122 that as a separate part and no longer a part. And that's why we have put in here specifically, "The remaining seven acres that were originally a part of the RPUD are not owned by plaintiffs and are not covered by, or affected by, or benefit from this agreement." And unless there's some other reason why, I mean we can't understand why. MS. THOMSEN: I think that we have -- Rusty, do you have with you a summary of the changes and kind of the justification that we felt in terms of making them? MR. ROBERTS: No, I don't have any justification. MS. THOMSEN: Okay. This was a sheet that I believe was faxed out to you that just kind of went through in a narrative explaining the changes. MR. ROBERTS: I didn't get that. In fact, I didn't get all of the fax but -- MS. THOMSEN: In any event, the only thing we were concerned with with regard to that language is the fact that I believe Hoffman has certain easement rights or for retainage pond or whatever, and so to the extent that he has MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 123 anything to do with our property, he might be affected by it and he might benefit from it. We don't expect him to be covered by it and really I think we could care less in terms of whether or not it benefits him or affects him. All we're concerned with is our parcel. At the same time we realize that it may in its natural course have some effect on him, his property or may in some way benefit him because we're allowed to develop it, and that was really the justification between not wanting that in there because if there is something that benefits him or affects him as an adjoining property owner, it's kind of like -- it's not affected by the agreement but, you know, we don't -- we can't say that it won't happen. We can't say that the development of the property will not benefit him in some way or affect him in some way as an adjoining property owner, so that was really the rationale behind that change. So if you said not covered because clearly he isn't a party to the agreement and he isn't going to be a part of the development, that would be fine with us. MR. ROBERTS: Well, that's what I said or not covered by or affected -- you say -- MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 124 MS. THOMSEN: I think the affected and the benefit was because he has I think certain retainage rights, retainage ponds or something. MR. YATES: In a settlement effected with Hoffman, there are certain easements that the RTC as receiver for Broadview agreed to with Hoffman, the owner of the seven acres to the south of our parcel, and those pertain, I believe, largely to a retention pond which when the sixteen plus acres is developed would be probably necessary in order to have it conform to current use. A benefit was granted via an easement to Hoffman for that. I think there was also some other utility connection points or something like that that might also have been specified in that agreement, and the concern as Judith has stated is was that by specifically saying no benefit to the owner of the seven acres to the south, we might by agreeing to that in the stipulation be saying -- taking back something we'd already agreed to in another settlement. MS. THOMSEN: Or be technically incorrect. MR. YATES: We didn't want to be in MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 125 default of another agreement. MR. ROBERTS: Well, I guess I don't understand how whatever deal you've worked with him has anything to do with us, and so, therefore, I don't think any agreement you work with us is between the rights and obligations of between each other so whether it benefits him or not -- MR. YATES: That's why we felt by not making any mention of the owner and benefit to the owner of the seven acres to the south in our estimation it didn't put us into that sort of catch 22 situation, counsel. MR. HAMBRIC: I'm a little confused. I mean if you go in and you talk about the 17 acres, it's the 17 acres. Right? So -- and we're saying the 17 acres of the original 24 acres. So if you say the 17 acres of the 24 or you just say the 17 acres, don't you accomplish the same thing? MS. THOMSEN: And refer to schedule lA in terms of the property description. MR. RAND: But you've added the stipulation applies only to the property. By identifying the property as 17.3 acres and then MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 126 adding the stipulation applies only to the property meaning the 7.3 so what objection would there be in leaving this additional sentence in? I don't understand. MR. HAMBRIC: I'm not sure which -- MR. RAND: We're talking about parties and property affected, section A. MR. HAMBRIC: But I've got two agreements here is part of my problem. MS. THOMSEN: This is theirs. This is the one that we changed and what they're saying is what it says here the remaining seven and we said, well, that's not covered by it so there's no need to have a reference to it, in addition to which we can't say that it's not affected, it doesn't benefit from the agreement because it could in the course have some benefit or effect to him and so it was just a question of clearly he's not a party to the agreement and any benefit he has is not a consequence of being a party to the agreement, but we weren't -- we didn't feel comfortable saying that he's not affected by it or benefit from it. That's all. MR. HAMBRIC: So Rusty in the draft -- MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 127 MS. THOMSEN: If we have not covered, that's fine with me. MR. HAMBRIC: So, Rusty, if the draft we sent back to you says the property as more fully described in Exhibit 1 represents 17.4 acres more or less of the original 24.5 acres more or less of the RPUD of the property and is owned by the plaintiff, the stipulation only applies to the property. MR. ROBERTS: Right. MR. HAMBRIC: Does that not meet what's -- MR. ROBERTS: Well, as I said, you know, if you want to delete or "affected by," I don't have a problem with that. MS. THOMSEN: How about or benefit from? Because, you know, I don't know about that either. In other words, he -- it's clearly not covered by and he's not a party to it, but whether or not he benefits from it, I mean I don't know what he plans on doing or, you know, anything like that so that's why the affected or benefit seemed to us to be something that we were saying when it may or may not be the case. I can't think of any way it is. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 128 MR. HAMBRIC: Why don't we just strike the whole remaining seven acres. If the idea is we're settling on the portion we own, why are we even talking about the other seven acres? MR. ROBERTS: The reason is because you have the continuation in an amended form of the RPUD, and those parts were a part of the original RPUD. MR. HAMBRIC: Okay. MR. ROBERTS: And that -- I don't think we're in disagreement but it is not a part of it. MS. THOMSEN: I don't either, Rusty. MR. ROBERTS: It's semantics of making sure that Mr. Hoffman doesn't come in later and say, gee, your RPUD is still in existence, town, I want 256 units in two towers now whereas current zoning gives me, you know, thirty. MR. HAMBRIC: Why don't we delete or affected by or benefit from, strike those six words? MS. THOMSEN: It's clearly not covered by the agreement. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 129 MR. ROBERTS: I don't have a problem affected by but my concern is benefit as well. Because if he picks up this agreement -- MR. HAMBRIC: You have to play lawyer so -- I mean affected by or benefit to me when I read as a business person reading the agreement, they both have a similar meaning to me, so if you take one and leave one in it's kind of a wash to me. MR. ROBERTS: Why don't we leave that and we will discuss it further amongst ourselves. The next thing, as I see it, is paragraph three, development parameters and time limits, and I'll tell you one concern that is a general concern throughout the agreement of the town which I guess is something that we have to come to grips with is that whether this is simply by its terms, whatever they may be, of development parameters in and of itself an amendment to the RPUD plan whereas this is the only thing or whether it's an alternative, and the language that you've suggested is that you either do it in accordance with the RPUD-2 plan or within the parameters. And the difficulty with that is that the RPUD plan had a density of MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 130 620 units -- I mean 620 dwelling units, different sizes and whatever, so if it's your intent to give it an alternative, then I think then really what we've done here is given you the opportunity to do anything you want amongst those two plans whereas I think our offer really was let's come MR. HAMBRIC: I don't think that's ever the intent. I think we've always agreed in our preliminary sessions, and Rusty and Mary Ann, we had one Friday night not so long ago was that we're talking about 427 units is the maximum number to be built on the parcel. MR. ROBERTS: And I feel that that is the understanding, too, but from a legal standpoint if you suggest that there are two alternatives, one of which is not limited by 427, you create a confusion which would just lead to further litigation. MS. THOMSEN: And I would be happy to amend it to say in any event no more than 427 units to be constructed. MR. ROBERTS: Well, but -- MAYOR VORESS: Or just take the RPUD out, then you don't have that problem. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 131 MS. THOMSEN: I think there was some discussion anyway, it really was a development discussion in terms of it being desirable to market the property on kind of an either/or but the intent being that it would be no more than 427 units, and I think that's always been what is understood, and I'm more than willing to specifically limit it to that which is what I think you've always felt was our understanding. MR. YATES: Yes, it's really a matter of -- as we're an owner only vicariously right now and it's our mandate in the judgment to dispose of the property, expose it to the marketplace and have a private developer owner of that property as soon as possible, we didn't want to limit the amount -- limit the type of development and disadvantage the town and the number of units, certainly Jay has said 427 was the max units for our site that's contemplated. We didn't want to with the iterations of the development plan or a developer might think the benefits of the RPUD-2, we didn't want to foreclose one for the other. We are amenable to the 427 max units. That's a given. And we just did not want to foreclose the possibility the MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 132 developer might find the RPUD-2 more conducive to them than the alternative plan, but the cap on the units is something that's a given, so it's really to facilitate the marketing as we are not to be the developer long term. We're going to be exposing this to the marketplace and hopefully the marketplace will decide what's most expedient and economically viable for it to work with the town and to build on. MR. ROBERTS: Well, I guess we can probably leave this for further discussion because -- and I'll just tell you our input on this. If it is your intention to do that, and I don't think it's going to be easy to do an agreement because it will require us to go back and look at every aspect of the RPUD-2 plan which we've not done. It's my feeling in having been exposed to it that it might have aspects of it beyond the number of units which are inconsistent with the building parameters that we're speaking here, so this Town Commission would have to know. I guess in drafting the agreement as it was drafted and submitted, it was based upon the thought that there wasn't any really viable MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 133 alternative of the RPUD plan. The evidence seems to suggest that was not marketable back as far as 182 when the request for the judgment was entered the request was made over our strenuous objection that they be allowed to make reasonable modifications, and I think that was based upon, and certainly the record will reflect that there was argument to the effect that, well, we can't build this now, you know, this might have to be controlled, and, quite candidly, I think that if you're dealing with building codes now, there probably would be an interplay now between that plan approved in 1980 and what the building plans have here. I am looking in the drafting of it and the proposal to you in a way to do it that both of us can live with that is clear and concise and without confusion and consistency. And if it is your intention, then certainly I think this whole thing has to be looked at again to see what those inconsistencies may or may not ETam MR. HAMBRIC: I think it's our intention in some of the earlier discussions I know the Mayor and other folks have said, you know, somebody may want to build houses there as MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 134 opposed to units, and I think the idea was leave it more open-ended for a developer to come in and say what they thought the best use of the property was. So coming up with a plan that allows 427 units or other actions someone deems to take on the property was giving two alternatives. Again, I go back, and I guess I'm looking at this -- I hope we never litigate any of these matters again, but I go back and look at this agreement and in my mind we're looking at the attachments saying it's 427 units of so many stories, setback of so much footage. That's in my mind the development plan we're going to sell to the developer, this is what gives the property value, please bid. And then they have to come in and do whatever they normally do to meet the safety, fire code and those other kind of things. MR. ROBERTS: Well, you and I are precisely in agreement then because I think that's what I have suggested in the draft and what you responded to is we set overall general parameters and in those parameters you sit there and say you have the discretion to build anything you want with those parameters.. But the difficulty is is when you also add the either/or MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 135 RPUD-2 plan, you change all of that and you make things inconsistent. MS. THOMSEN: I know that initially and I know that I understand that the town has not officially agreed to anything, I know when we initially talked we were talking about an envelope in terms of building the property and it was -- and I think the discussions were that it was either inconsistent with the RPUD or anything -- any other development that was reasonable, and I guess, you know, within the parameters provided that it doesn't have more than 427 and that was really what we talked about I guess in terms of assessing it, and we haven't done the same thing that you're saying that you need to do which is we haven't gone to the -- through the RPUD and we don't intend really to build on it, the RTC doesn't, it plans on marketing and selling the property, is to go through and see whether or not we feel that that will diminish the marketability of the property. MR. HAMBRIC: Well, I guess that's another side board discussion as we slowly move along. MR. ROBERTS: Sure. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 136 MS. THOMSEN: The only other thing on that, Rusty, is the ten-year date, and we hadn't really made this change, that if possible we'd like the ten years from the sale date as opposed to the order date. That's just something else. MR. ROBERTS: Well, I can tell you that that sort of thought was discussed, but if it's based upon when your sale is, I mean that could be whenever. I mean that doesn't -- the Commission is more in tune to picking a specific date that we know is going to occur rather than it being up in the air, but I'll certainly put that up for discussion. MR. HAMBRIC: Talking to the development community, they prefer to see ten years from the date of the sale. The people you're going to have to be dealing with on a daily basis. MAYOR VORESS: The problem is if you sell it in four or five different parcels. MR. HAMBRIC: Date of sale in four or five different parcels would be -- we're going to market it and advertise it in one parcel. MAYOR VORESS: If your offers come MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 137 in and you choose to sell it in different parcels. MR. HAMBRIC: But it would still be the date of sale of those parcels. I do not expect to sell one acre, two acres, three acres. I mean I'm looking at this as a one-time sale, somebody buys the entire parcel. And if no one bids enough money, we're back to a different story but -- MS. THOMSEN: We can do a no later than maybe, Rusty, in terms of the sale date. Ten years from the sale date provided the sale takes place by such and such a date. I mean, you know, I don't know how long we're going to market it. I do know that we are going to want to market it -- MR. YATES: Or a sale of substantially all the property or something. For the tax base it's better to do it all in one parcel. MS. THOMSEN: To do it all in one or do it all in one pretty expeditiously. MR. HAMBRIC: I expect it will take us six months to sell it probably. Sixty days of advertising, thirty days for people to make a bid MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 138 coming in, due diligence and then closing another thirty-five or forty-five to ninety days to close, so I expect it will take probably six months to close it because it is going to be a fairly substantial capital investment for someone, but, then again, we may never sell it, and, then again, we may be having this discussion in ten years from now so -- MR. ROBERTS: Well, hopefully that's what we don't want to have is the same discussion in ten years from now. MR. HAMBRIC: But anyway I think that gives more value to the property which in turn gives more value to the tax base here because the higher the bid the higher the tax base. MR. ROBERTS: I think that's probably why the ten-year figure is used. That should give you enough time to sell and develop it. MR. HAMBRIC: My developer said give me fifteen and I said ten sounds more reasonable so -- but we'll ask you to consider that. MR. ROBERTS: Okay. The next one is on the infrastructure. We're not amenable to MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 139 dealing with a definition contained in Florida statutes which can change on a daily basis -- or a yearly basis as to what public facilities are. MS. THOMSEN: Well, all that provision attempts to do is, to the extent that the property cannot be developed because of the infrastructure, it gives time to get the infrastructure in place. In other words, it doesn't impose anything more other than if something happens and we can't get electricity or you can't provide what you need to to develop the property, then you're not cut off from developing it, and it really isn't -- I mean it doesn't mean that the town has to share any burden other than giving us additional time if we run into that infrastructure which is outside of our control or the developer -- it's outside of the developer's control, it gives them the opportunity to continue to develop it. MR. HAMBRIC: I'm assuming by driving up and down AlA here that there's water, sewer and utilities can be connected so I mean that's -- That's the only ones MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 140 MR. HAMBRIC: Right. And when I was talking to Judith, I think what they've told me this talks about, again, I'm not a lawyer and I don't -- I can't define Florida statutes for anyone, but that's the part from a business point of view I'm concerned about having, water, sewer and utilities so we can hook up and build. MS. THOMSEN: And the developer is really responsible for everything that's normally the developer's responsibility in terms of meeting his cutoff deadlines which is kind of what it then says that, you know, everything else that is normally the responsibility of the developer he doesn't get any extension for. If he doesn't have it then, then he doesn't have it, but as to things that are outside of his control either within the town's control or the provider of any other utilities or infrastructure, then he is just given additional time because of that problem. MR. ROBERTS: Well, the only thing that is within the control of the town as far as infrastructure is water and sewer. That's it. And so anything beyond that such as roads, this is a state road out here. We don't have any MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 141 control over the state road. The state is the one that decides whether they build it or not. And if the state requires that for the purposes of development there to be acceleration lanes or widening or something like that, that is traditionally the responsibility of the developer to do this not the town. And that's why our provision was just water and sewer, just those ones that we control. MR. HAMBRIC: Well, what's the difference between water and sewer and public facilities in Section 163.3164? I don't know. I'm not a lawyer so somebody tell me the difference. MR. ROBERTS: The facilities in 163 means major capital improvements including but not limited to transportation, road work which we don't control, sanitary sewer which we do, solid waste which we do not control, drainage which we do, potable water which we do, educational we do not control. That's controlled by the Palm Beach County School Board. Parks and recreation, that's controlled by Palm Beach County. We don't have any control of that. MR. HAMBRIC: In that section does MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 142 that imply that the township is supposed to provide all those things? MS. THOMSEN: It just gives you an extension, Jay, in terms of if for some reason you can't build on your property, you can't develop it because you cannot get the necessary things that are part of the infrastructure to develop it, it extends your time. It doesn't say that it is the town's responsibility. It just gives you the additional period of time for things that are outside of your control as the developer. Everything that's the developer's responsibility he gets no extension for. The cutoff date is the cut off date. But if something comes up and he can't develop it because of the provision of something that's in the infrastructure which is outside of its control, then you get a corresponding increase until the infrastructure is available. MR. YATES: Here again, we were thinking in terms of we're trying to construct something more or less for posterity. Someone else is going to inherit these terms and conditions of the settlement. It hopefully will be a private owner developer. We didn't want to MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 143 1 disadvantage them by something that wouldn't be 2 available and not have the benefit of at least 3 extending beyond the cutoff until those, if they 4 were requirements in infrastructure other than 5 what he as a developer, he, she as a developer 6 would be required to provide, we didn't want them 7 to not have the opportunity to have the extension 8 of time. That's all. It wasn't in anticipation 9 that the town would have to provide any of 10 these. 11 MR. ROBERTS: Well, I understand 12 that, too, but the way it's worded there, what it 13 means to us is that if a developer went and when 14 he started the development and the school board 15 says if you're going to build this development 16 you've got to contribute 100,000 or 300,000 or 17 two million dollars to the building of a school 18 within five miles, and he says no, I'm not going 19 to do that, then that means there's an automatic 20 extension until somebody finally does decide to 21 do that. So it could last forever. 22 MR. HAMBRIC: What's the down side 23 to the town? 24 MR. ROBERTS: The down side to the 25I town is it means -- it gives the developer the MUDRICI£, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 144 opportunity to set this in perpetuity by his own actions by failing to come up with -- if you understand infrastructure -- MR. HAMBRIC: I understand that but what's the down side to the town? They don't build on the property? MR. ROBERTS: No. I mean he doesn't build -- I mean -- MR. HAMBRIC: That's the down side. Nobody ever builds on the property. MR. ROBERTS: The down side is because it deals with extensions of cutoff date, the down side is that it goes on at the discretion of the developer. MR. HAMBRIC: Or at the discretion of the agency that has to give the approval. MR. ROBERTS: Well, the agency -- MR. HAMBRIC: If the agency says you have to build a school and the developer says no, I don't think the developer ever wants to get into business to build schools. That's not their mentality. I mean the down side is it sets there as raw land for the next however many years. MR. ROBERTS: Well, if the developer meets that, then he changes his development to MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 145 something that meets the requirements or gets a waiver, but it's not something that's in our control, you see. And it's not in the MR. ROBERTS: It absolutely is. MR. HAMBRIC: Well, it's not in the control -- in looking at the plan what we're trying to do is if he has to go back and change what he wants to build don't you think it's appropriate if he has to completely re-engineer and come up with a new strategy to market it, wouldn't he need additional time to do that? MR. ROBERTS: He should know that in advance before he markets something. MR. HAMBRIC: If that's the case you shouldn't be worried about it then. I mean if the developer knows what he's doing, we're wasting our time talking about it because he'll know all those things ahead of time, but if he does go into it and somebody gets elected and you have a change in the commission or you have a change on the state level and they decide you don't want to do these things, I think it's probably putting the developer in an unfair MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 146 position that here I'm going to buy this but now I can't develop it because someone's changed the rules, and I would like the opportunity to have time to develop new parameters to build. MS. MARIANO: We're not taking the extension out. The extension is staying in. We're just limiting it to water and sewer. There's no talk about taking the extension of time out. The talk is to limit it to water and MR. HAMBRIC: But water and sewer we know -- I mean everyone thinks is hooked up right away. It's utilities or the state transportation department won't allow them to, you know -- MS. THOMSEN: I think there's a way to satisfy both sides in the sense that if the concern is that the developer isn't doing everything that they can do to develop the property in a timely fashion and hanging the hat on, well, I can't get the infrastructure in place which sounds as though it's your concern, that you could limit it to say that provided that all reasonable efforts have been made by the developer or the entity developing it to obtain the infrastructure, not just any reasonable MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 147 effort but all reasonable efforts, so if there's something that they should have done that would have -- almost by definition probably would have been reasonable, then they can't get an extension. MR. ROBERTS: All right. Well, we'll discuss that. As to page eight we don't have a problem with your changes. Where the regulation shall -- I'm sorry. Subsection B of paragraph three, the last sentence before subsection C. MAYOR VORESS: That's on page five. MR. HAMBRIC: Page five. MR. ROBERTS: You wanted only to development that has not occurred prior to the cutoff date. We had upon expiration of the cutoff date. And yours is fine. MR. HAMBRIC: Okay. MR. ROBERTS: The next item is subparagraph D. You had suggested that in consideration of the town's compliances with this stipulation we would waive any claim as to the cutoff date, and we can't agree to that because the consideration for the whole agreement is the consideration here and that in our view would MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 148 allow you to wait 9.9 years and at that time you think that there was some uncompliance that you could then go into court and challenge the ten years as a cutoff date, and because the challenge -- and I can tell you our rationale is because that challenge was made in the underlying lawsuit prior to that of Ordinance 282 the ten years and that there was a challenge to it, and we feel that it was not appropriate at that time and we certainly don't want to voluntarily get into a situation where that may again be challenged which would again take us back to the starting point in that litigation, so the consideration for it is the consideration of entering into the agreement, not waiting to see whether there's compliance. MR. HAMBRIC: Are we reading the same thing? MS. THOMSEN: I think we are. We're on 6D. MR. HAMBRIC: When I read this, basically it says when we sign this settlement agreement or we stipulate to terms of the settlement agreement that it's ten years. And after ten years, you know, everybody has to go MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 149 back to the drawing board. MS. THOMSEN: Really what it's intended to do is that provided that the town lives up to the agreement, then clearly we're going to live up to the agreement and not going to bring any claims of constitutionality, deprivation of rights, et cetera. If it isn't in consideration of the town's compliance with what they've agreed to do and it's just in consideration of the town executing the agreement, then -- and you have agreed to waive those rights, then you've waived them merely by entering into the agreement. So that's the play in words. And it really seems that clearly provided that we got -- that the town lived up to the agreement and the property was able to be developed and everything went fine, then we would never raise that claim. MR. YATES: As it read in your draft, Mr. Roberts, would it not, Judith, have said the very same thing that Rusty was suggesting we could use as an interpretation by adding that in consideration of the town's compliance with the stipulation, aren't we giving it back on the other side? The one side said MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 150 we've received a consideration. We can't go back, if I read it without our addition here, that would say we can't go back and make any claim. By putting it back in in the beginning of the sentence, doesn't it just sort of nullify? I can't imagine how the "in consideration" appearing twice in this paragraph would work to either the town's or our benefit in respect to this narrow issue of the cutoff date and the rights of going back. We're just restating that we've had consideration of the town's performing in accordance with the agreement, we're saying here as it carries on, are estopped by virtue of consideration received. It seems to me we've sort of nullified them. MR. ROBERTS: I don't read it that way. Quite frankly -- MR. YATES: Well, I'm not an attorney so I don't know how in the law this would be viewed. MR. ROBERTS: Consideration is anything of value. MR. YATES: Just as it would be -- in the terms of we'd be estopped because of that consideration. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 151 MR. ROBERTS: And I think Judith has hit it correctly by saying that the consideration of execution of the agreement, whatever it may be, we've given up that right to make any claim at any later point in time, and it is my view that by putting a specific consideration of compliance with the stipulation for the next ten, fifteen, twenty years, whatever it is, that now allows you to at any time during that period of time to say if you're not in compliance I'm going to complain that that very ten years which is one of the parts of the agreement is unconstitu- tional. MS. THOMSEN: But then how do you protect the developer from the argument that the town agrees to ten years and then says they're not going to honor it. Okay? And under this paragraph you've waived your right to contest the dates, even though the town hasn't lived up to its part of the bargain, by giving you the ten years to develop it. Otherwise we waived a right based on a promise as opposed to based on a promise and performance. MR. ROBERTS: Well, the thing -- the point to be made there is if there is a breach by MUDRICI£, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 152 the town there are specific remedy provisions in there that allow you to go to court and get specific performance, injunctive -- a certain amount of damage relief. The point of the matter is is what you're suggesting here is that if I don't comply, I can do away with the entire agreement. Okay? And I have never seen that, quite frankly, in all the settlement agreements that I've been involved with or any ordinances where you're given an opportunity you say, gee, if you don't comply I get to throw it aside, and I would be remiss to suggest -- MS. THOMSEN: Well, I mean the reason you're giving up your claim is really because you feel that you're going to -- that all of the allegations of damage or deprivations have been addressed and are going to be taken care of by performance of the agreement. And so you're waving the claims that you would have, okay, if you didn't enter into it. And yet if you waive it and it isn't contingent upon the things that you're waiving it for, then you've waived it just for a promise as opposed to the performance of it, but we can discuss that, I guess. MR. ROBERTS: Well, not to belabor MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 153 it, this only deals with a claim that a cutoff date is unconstitutional. That's all it deals with, and that's why I think you ought to consider that. It's not in any other aspect of MS. THOMSEN: Well, I mean it seems to me then it should be perhaps that in consideration of the town's compliance with honoring the cutoff dates in the stipulation that then we waive it, as to the cutoff date. So you tie the town's compliance only to the cutoff date because that's what we're waiving it to. And that is probably a way of tailoring it so that you don't have to worry about doing anything other than honoring your cutoff date for us to waive any rights we have to bring a claim, those kinds of claims based on the cutoff date. I mean so that seems to me to be a way that we could tweak it to serve both parties. MR. ROBERTS: On paragraph five, development plans and procedures, you had had specifically applicable in this agreement. We had no problem on that, under sub Roman numeral iii. On small Roman numeral iv you had deleted -- MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MAYOR VORESS: Of the entire property. MR. ROBERTS: Of the entire property. 154 MR. HAMBRIC: Rusty, where are you again? I don't show a deletion. MAYOR VORESS: Page eight, on the top of page eight, the third line down, development. MR. YATES: Continued on and said -- MAYOR VORESS: You've deleted of the entire property. MR. YATES: Development of the entire property. MR. HAMBRIC: Oh, okay. MAYOR VORESS: See the third sentence, so long as development? MR. HAMBRIC: Yes. MR. ROBERTS: I guess the question is why. MR. YATES: I think it may have been a defined term or something. MS. THOMSEN: I think it was a defined term, but I don't know that that gives me a lot of concern. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 155 MR. ROBERTS: The next thing was, continuing on there, we talked about the specific town code and ordinances that are applicable under this agreement, and we said the Standard Building Code, county wide amendments to the code, town Xeriscape, life safety codes in effect at the time, and then you said to the extent -- you added, "To the extent they do not conflict with development parameters or the terms of this stipulation which will take precedence." And it's our position that if those apply they apply, and if there's any conflict between this agreement, then the building codes would be applicable. Because they deal with the building, not the zoning. MR. HAMBRIC: What is the Xeriscape? MR. ROBERTS: It tells you that you could have plants that don't take a lot of water. MAYOR VORESS: That's an issue in the South Florida Water Management in the water short areas, Jay. MS. THOMSEN: I think the only thing you can do with that is to go back through and MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 156 look at your, you know, your RPUD and see if there's anything there that gives you a concern. MR. HAMBRIC: I mean the whole idea is we were going to build subject to whatever the codes for fire safety, building codes, that sort of thing. MR. ROBERTS: Yes, but I can't envision a situation that would occur, but I can't also say that somehow this is going to take precedence over -- MR. YATES: Well, to the extent that you have town code and ordinances, that's controllable. To the extent you have building codes which are imposed upon you greater than -- I think the hope was that the developer would maintain what the town code ordinances were like the time of the RPUD-2. MAYOR VORESS: That's why we have hurricane standards here. We're not going to let you avoid the hurricane standards. That's a town code. MS. THOMSEN: No, but I think what the concern is, and I understand your point, Arlin, in terms of you don't want us to build an unsafe building, et cetera, and I can understand MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 157 that. MAYOR VORESS: We cannot do that. MS. THOMSEN: Right. But the -- and I think this is kind of with respect to the relationship of the development of the property to date, the concern that the town could hinder the development or enact codes or provisions that would make the development as it's approved impractical or too costly to build or whatever through its powers so that whatever codes and things we have now to build it with are what we have to agree to. MAYOR VORESS: Well, they apply to all building in town. It's not just one, you know. MS. THOMSEN: I'm sure, though, that that was what the provision was intended to do. MR. ROBERTS: We're going to skip over the money and go to impact fees. On paragraph seven your suggestion is $1,300 per unit. We don't know where that figure came from, quite candidly, unless it's just a figure you're comfortable with because -- MR. HAMBRIC: I think it came from the massive files of the original litigation. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 158 Somewhere somebody dug that out. MR. ROBERTS: It came from somewhere. It's not what the fees would be on July 1, 185. MR. HAMBRIC: What would those fees be? MR. ROBERTS: Those fees -- well, it's difficult to say exactly what those fees are because some of them are based upon value of development. Okay? But if you took, for instance, a development of a unit of what, $75,000 and included the rest of the fees in there -- MAYOR VORESS: The plumbing connections, electrical connections, all other things are coded to that. It depends how you build it. MR. ROBERTS: For 427 units that would be $1,245,986. MS. MARIANO: Estimate. MR. ROBERTS: Estimate because that's the estimate of value. Your figure of 1,300 a unit would be $555,000. Okay. So we're talking about a $700,000 difference there based upon the $75,000 unit. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 159 MR. YATES: But you're going back to the 1985 time frame. MS. MARIANO: Absolutely. MR. YATES: What would have been the fees? MR. ROBERTS: That's what the fees would be in July 1, 1985. MR. RAND: As mandated by the court. MR. YATES: We worked it out on the number of units, I thought, and came out to the 13. MR. HAMBRIC: I mean there's got to be something in the town records that identify it. Right? MS. MARIANO: I have it. I have it right here. MR. HAMBRIC: Well, make that an attachment and say this is what it is. MR. ROBERTS: Well, see, the -- that's what we did. We said B, payment in accordance with the schedule in effect on July 1, 1985. MR. HAMBRIC: It's based on the schedule. Just get the schedule and we'll attach MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 160 it to the -- MS. MARIANO: It's not that easy. MR. HAMBRIC: Yes, it is. How many copies, make copies, put it behind it. The developer should be able to read that. Say if I build ten units! I have these fees. If I build 427 units I'll have these kind of fees and I'm sure that somebody looks at your building code or fee structure somewhere when they get ready to build. Right? MR. ROBERTS: Yes. MR. HAMBRIC: That's not secret. Just photocopy it. If it's a foot high, it's a foot high. MR. ROBERTS: We'll make that Exhibit F. MR. HAMBRIC: Right. Unless they've gone down and you all want to give us something, but nothing ever goes down in life, has it, Rusty? that. up. MR. ROBERTS: I can assure you of MR. YATES: March 1, 195 it went MR. ROBERTS: That's why I tried to MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 161 slip in that July 1, 195. MR. HAMBRIC: I did see a comment on that, Rusty. The first person said it was a typo. The second person said you were a bad guy. MR. ROBERTS: I didn't catch that. Okay. The next thing in the approval procedure is in reviewing over this we felt that the agreement we submitted was probably deficient in one area and that is the time limit on the RTC to approve it. It didn't speak to how long -- the procedure, as I understand from the agreement which I don't think there was much controversy over, is that the town -- we generally come to somewhat of a consensus, then it would be placed officially in front of the Town Commission at a public meeting to vote yea or nay, and if it is successful the resolution is passed and it goes back to you. MR. HAMBRIC: Right. MR. ROBERTS: Okay? But what the agreement has, it doesn't say how long you have to approve it. Okay? Which would leave open the potential of we could approve it and say yeah, and then you sit back at Valley Forge and say -- MR. HAMBRIC: I'll tell you within MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 162 24 hours of getting your proposal, we'll take action on it. MR. ROBERTS: You could say let's see what the court does. If we lose we sign it. MR. HAMBRIC: Within 24 hours of it being in my hand, you'll either have it back signed or you'll have it back. MR. ROBERTS: Within ten days or whatever -- MR. HAMBRIC: Whatever you're comfortable with. If Judith and I are sitting here, we can do it tonight. Make that one easy on yourself. Whatever you think is reasonable we can live with. MR. ROBERTS: We suggested ten days. And also once something has already been discussed, too, is that we need something, official documentation saying that the person who signs this is authorized to sign it. MR. HAMBRIC: I think we've already got those, as a matter of fact. MR. ROBERTS: And the next suggested change was number nine, the comprehensive plan amendment, you said promptly and we didn't have any problem with that. Next on paragraph ten you MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 163 want to make us responsible in court for any actions of any officials, employees, departments or agents which materially impedes, interferes, impairs, stops or slows development of a property pursuant to the stipulation, and we're just simply not willing to do that because it's just too broad of an exposure to us. MR. HAMBRIC: Guys, one of the problems we have here and probably none of us in this room were involved in the original decisions, but that's the basis of this whole lawsuit we're settling, so at some point both sides have to step to the table and say there's a history involved and that's why we're settling the agreement. I don't know if anybody was here when all this took place. I know that Judith and I and Chris weren't. But I mean that's the basis for the litigation because the developer felt like town officials took actions right, wrong or indifferent. So far the court has said right. It may change its mind tomorrow, but I mean that's the purpose of the litigation, so something has to be addressed to say that if we sign a settlement agreement, we sell the property and Arlin decides he's going to pull the zoning MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 164 MR. ROBERTS: Well, that's precisely why we've got it in there because it was our position that that didn't affect you, you know, that it was only official action that we're responsible for, and that's why we have it in there. MS. THOMSEN: I think whenever, I mean generally speaking whenever an agent of yours does something, I mean an agent's acting for you so that action is attributable to you. I guess in the same way that if your employees, and I mean we certainly have employees who take actions that we may or may not prefer that they have taken but we are liable for their actions as their employer, and I guess, you know, whether you could limit it to within the scope of their duties in the sense that if someone -- if someone undertakes an action that is even colorably within the scope of their duties that is an agent of ours, an employee, an official, we're responsible for it. I mean, you know, it stops with us, and that really is all that that's intended to do that it -- you know, if someone does it on your behalf you're responsible for it MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 165 which I think is really just a recognition of what the law really is in terms of -- and we really added in in order for it to be material, I mean so we would get around, well, what impedes or interferes, and I am willing to omit slow because that might be difficult to determine what slows and what doesn't slow, but if somebody -- I mean initially when we talked about it we were talking about the town assisting us in every way with the development, with it, you know, and I understand that that may be something that the town cannot do, but we do need to know that the town is going to be at our side in terms of the development of it, and so we added in materially and we added in just a description of the kinds of responsibilities that the town would have through its employees, its officials, its agents, its departments. I mean that just is part of the entity that has hurt the development of the property as it's defined in the stipulation, and that really is the intent there. And again, materially breached. Okay? So if someone does something, you know, that may or may not have slowed it or this took a little bit longer, it MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 166 has to be a material breach of the development parameters of the property. MR. ROBERTS: Well, see, that provision is already in there in paragraph twelve. The defendant shall not take any action except as provided herein -- MS. THOMSEN: Except for the remedies. I mean remedies are what we can do in the event or the person aggrieved can do in the event that something goes wrong, and I mean one of the things that there isn't again a remedy for is even the -- I mean there are a couple of things that we have a remedy for under the agreement, but, for example, we don't have it for the cutoff fees, so the town could in fact not honor its provision with respect to the cutoff fees and we wouldn't be able to go in and get a hearing with the magistrate even though that's clearly the understanding of the parties and part of the agreement, but that would not be available to us, we'd be back to square one starting a new lawsuit because it isn't part of the remedy section. MR. ROBERTS: Which section is that? Cutoff fees? MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 167 MS. THOMSEN: In other words, you in your remedy section -- MR. ROBERTS: Right. MS. THOMSEN: -- indicated a number of -- MR. HAMBRIC: You said cutoff fees. MS. THOMSEN: I'm sorry? MR. HAMBRIC: You said cutoff fees. MS. THOMSEN: I meant impact fees. For example, that's just an example, an area in which we wouldn't have any remedy, we would really have to go back to square one and start a lawsuit, and so the remedy provision is very important in terms of enforcing the understanding of the parties, and we tried to make it even handed in terms of it being any material violation or breach of the terms and conditions and that it would have to materially have done -- impeded, interfered with, impaired or stopped. MR. ROBERTS: Well -- MS. THOMSEN: It would just seem to me that we have a history of having had problems in developing the property. The last thing I would think a developer would want to do would be to get into a fight with the town in terms of MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ".1 developing the property. They're going to need to work with the town. They're going to want things to go smoothly because otherwise they're going to be tied up without being able to benefit, realize the benefit of their bargain. And all we want is that if in fact the -- because it's a continuing agreement as opposed to a walk away, you know, we'll exchange money and walk away, we need -- there needs to be protection in terms of what happens if in fact the provisions are not adhered to. MR. ROBERTS: Well, I think that we have certainly in our suggestion had a pretty broad base of things there, and certainly to the extent that there is a violation of the impact fees and if that must be specifically added, then I don't think there would be a problem there, but there is to me or to the Commission an indication that in the letter that initiated this process -- that one of the letters that initiated this process everybody is going to use their best efforts and I think that's consistent with it, but when you sit there and say -- use general terms such as impeded or slowed and you allege that I have been impeded, we're back in court MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 169 solely upon the fact that some developer has been impeded in doing something, that to me is back to square one litigation especially when it's taken in conjunction with the next request that you -- payment of monetary damages or any sums due or the enumeration of specific remedies herein shall not preclude plaintiffs or any other owner of pursuing any other remedies or receiving any other relief. That simply to me does just exactly what you've told me you don't want to do is end up back in court. That gives the ability of the subsequent owner if things go bad to walk back up in a non -jury proceeding and say they've impeded me, I want eighteen million dollars. MR. HAMBRIC: If things go bad because the town took some action to stop the development of the property, and, guys, that's what the original lawsuit is about. It's very difficult for me to sign a settlement agreement based on a history that says we'll sign a settlement agreement, parties will change hands and then tomorrow the town could do something and put the other developer that I may be lending money to back in the same position as the RTC was in. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 170 MS. THOMSEN: And all it does is it allows you to go and argue in front of a magistrate. It doesn't say what the magistrate does or doesn't do, and so there a magistrate like any judge is going to have to interpret what is material, and if it isn't material then it isn't a violation of the agreement that allows them to do anything. MR. ROBERTS: Well, in response to your comment, the reason we got into litigation because there wasn't a settlement agreement, there was no particular documentation, and it was everybody's interpretation of what that -- and that's why the litigation and that's why we're working on a settlement agreement which would clearly define, and to the extent and our purpose is if there can be a clear definition of the rights and obligations of each other, then it's easier for each party to live up to those obligations if they're crystal clear, and to the extent that you make them not crystal clear and use generalities, then you lead to litigation. So that's why we have done and our suggestion is make specific reference to if there's some other portion of it. So this commission as well as all MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 171 MR. HAMBRIC: Guys, you're pushing on a deal breaker. I'll be honest with you. I mean if that's the case that's the case, but I can't in good conscience commit to give up rights based on the history of what's happened with the property in the past. And there is some intangibles in the world. I mean, Rusty, it's nice to be as clearly defined as you can, but I think there are intangibles in the world and I mean slowed, if you come in and a building official says I want you to fill out the forms properly, when Judith and I were going over this maybe slow is the wrong word. If you don't fill out the forms properly, it's the developer's fault, it's not the town. Materially. But if the town took those documents and didn't act on them for a year, then I think they've materially affected development of the property. I'm afraid -- not afraid I expect to hold a mortgage on this property, and that puts me back at risk again being in business with the Town of Highland Beach where I've settled a lawsuit and now I can't go and do anything about it. So we need MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 172 the ability or the developer needs the ability to go in front of the magistrate and say these are the things that happened, and if the magistrate says no, you were not materially harmed, go back, comply with what the commissioner or the town is telling you to do, then there's no harm, no foul. But if he was impeded, there should be damages, someone should suffer for that. MR. ROBERTS: Well, if in fact you went to the magistrate and said here's my agreement, here's what they have not done under the agreement, you wouldn't have any litigation, would you? Because if it's crystal clear the magistrate can say and hopefully that those people who are sitting on the other side will say that. Because it is crystal clear. But if you come in and say, you know, Joe Shmow developer, construction company comes in and says I've been slowed, I've been harmed, how does the town respond to that? Okay? MR. HAMBRIC: We've already said we'll drop slowed because that's not probably relevant, slowed, but -- I lost my train of thought. MR. ROBERTS: You're talking about MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 173 materially and that means nothing to me. MR. HAMBRIC: Well, it does to me, Rusty. I guess maybe I'm more of a business oriented person than a lawyer. I know it -- it's like the pornography argument. I know it when I see it. I know what materially is. I assume all of you gentlemen come from some professional background. I think all of you know what material means in your own minds. MS. THOMSEN: I mean in the law, of course, there are standards in which it's interpreted by the situation, whether it is the reasonable man, whether it's making all reasonable efforts, whether it is material breach. And because you cannot anticipate everything that's going to happen, you have to have what is a standard in any agreement that then fits into either being material or immaterial, reasonable or unreasonable, and that's about the best you can do because you can't define up front everything that's going to happen, and, you know, if there's another standard that you have that you want to -- we can, you know, try to massage the language a little bit, I think that we don't -- it shouldn't MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 174 be for anything other than material. All it does is get you in front of a magistrate to argue it. And in terms of damages or any monetary relief or anything that you're given, it really is -- the burden is going to be on the other party to prove it so it doesn't get you anything. It just gets you an opportunity to be heard. That's all it does. MR. RAND: Judy, under this you make reference to the fact that the plaintiff or the owner alleges -- in other words, anyone can come in and make an allegation and based on his allegation without any proof or any input on our part that he can proceed with litigation. That doesn't make any sense. It's one-sided. Don't we have a right to try to remedy any situation that might occur of that nature? MS. THOMSEN: I don't have any problem with that. MR. RAND: Perhaps if there is something which materially affects the agreement, shouldn't we at least have the recourse to listen to the problem and the Town Commission to decide whether or not there's any merit to any such allegation? MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 175 MS. THOMSEN: And that would be fine with us. MR. RAND: You're making it one- sided. You're saying if someone makes the allegation and that's it. We don't have any -- MS. THOMSEN: I drew it for my side, but I would be more than happy to modify it to add if there's a cure provision that you want, a time framework. MR. RAND: I think they should do that. MS. THOMSEN: That's fine. I don't have any problem with that. I think they should make any effort -- MR. HAMBRIC: Mr. Rand, it's back to the reasonable man argument. I think what you say is reasonable and we ought to put it in. MR. RAND: Okay. The other objection I have, if you'll allow me, Mr. Roberts -- MR. ROBERTS: Sure. MR. RAND: -- the part here the parties shall not -- the remedies herein shall not preclude the plaintiffs or any other owner from pursuing any other remedies or receiving any MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 176 other relief. Now, I don't know the reason why that has to be included. You are being given sufficient remedies under this arrangement, under this settlement agreement to seek remedies in the event that there's any non-compliance with this agreement. So I don't understand why you have that additional comment about pursuing any other remedies. It should be the remedies as provided in this agreement. What other remedies are you making reference to? MS. THOMSEN: I think the reason that provision is there -- what you're talking about is we have a contractual arrangement with the town as a basis -- as a basis of a settlement stipulation. MR. RAND: Correct. MS. THOMSEN: And what the remedy provision has done is it has set up a process to get relief or to make an argument or to have a hearing with regard to the contractual provisions. There may well be other rights that we or the developer has merely by being a developer in your town that are not defined or discussed in the settlement stipulation, and as a consequence of not being discussed or assigned MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 177 there they continue to exist. In other words, the fact that you have rights under a contract doesn't take away any other rights that you may have as a citizen of that community or whatever your standing is and so they have other rights that are not covered by this agreement. MR. RAND: Well, that's what I don't understand. If we have an agreement and we are indicating what remedies are available to you in the event of non-compliance, I don't see why there should be the pursuit of any other remedies or receiving any other relief. MR. HAMBRIC: Would that be, Judith, something, an appeal to the building commissioner or an appeal to someone else? If a permit is denied is there -- I'm assuming there's something else in the town, an appellate process. MS. THOMSEN: You may have statutory rights that we clearly haven't enumerated, things that they can or cannot do. In other words, because all you're discussing really are the rights that have been specifically agreed to in this agreement and it's an agreement that anticipates being in effect and covering a course of conduct for a ten-year period of time. There MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 178 may be other statutory rights or any kind of rights that these parties have that they don't want to waive merely by having a contractual arrangement and remedies set forth with respect to the rights under that agreement. MS. MARIANO: Let me just make a comment because when we talk about the rights, when I look at the original draft, I don't have it right with me what you originally said to us, but as you'll recall, there was a point where we were asked to give up rights of the constitution and they were specific in here so we have to -- MS. THOMSEN: I'm sorry. I didn't really hear that. MR. ROBERTS: Judith, I think the concern here is that because it is contained in the provisions which indicates that if there is a -- in the same section of the remedies and it talks about employees materially slowing or agents materially slowing, stopping, impeding or interfering, their actions without any connection of whether they're in the scope and course of their employment or whatever, if the allegations -- then the town may be subject to other specific remedies not herein provided which MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 179 would include filing a civil rights claim in federal court, and that is something the town does not want to agree to to go back and start from square one, and this provision in my view allows that to occur. MS. THOMSEN: I think that if we've waived the rights which I thought we did to contest the constitutionality of certain provisions, then they're waived. That doesn't mean that saying shall not preclude them from any other remedies, anything that we've given up in the agreement, we've given up. Anything that we haven't given up in the agreement that we have by virtue of any other role or any other relationship, we continue to have. In other words, the agreement really relates to what we're going to do with respect to the terms that the town's agreed to and the terms that we've agreed to in developing the property. It's not to create anything new for us. It is really just preserving what we otherwise have in law or in equity, whether it's a statutory right, something that, you know, that is passed by the State of Florida five years from now or the municipality of Highland Beach, it's not creating anything. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 180 It really is just saying that you haven't given that up or haven't given up those rights. MR. ROBERTS: Well, why don't we go on to the next one. In number twelve, paragraph twelve we agreed to, "The defendants shall adopt no moratoria or any other form of zoning." You added "or other constraint." We don't know what other constraint is. MR. HAMBRIC: I'm ambivalent about that. Tell me what my down side is for that, Judith. I'm not sure. MS. THOMSEN: It really -- again, it clearly would be a moratorium on building or zoning. And it is just again the intent to make sure that you don't make an agreement with one hand and then play games with the other. MR. HAMBRIC: You can have a zoning to build 427 units, but then you can say you can't hook anything up to the water system, that we're not allowing any additional hook-ups to the water and sewer. MS. THOMSEN: And it has to be contrary to the development parameters. And it really just relates to -- MR. HAMBRIC: Is that a live or die MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 181 with you? MS. THOMSEN: No, it isn't a live or die but I think that really it goes back to -- MR. HAMBRIC: Well, when we all break to talk about language, we'll cover that issue. MR. ROBERTS: It talks about, "Constraints upon the property of the development contrary to the development parameters which shall or may impair or interfere directly or indirectly in any manner whatsoever with the sale or development of the property except as provided herein." I mean -- MR. HAMBRIC: Like I said, we'll visit when we -- MR. RAND: Okay. You'll look at that one. MR. ROBERTS: The next thing is -- MS. THOMSEN: This, I don't know, Rusty, on page eleven under cooperation, I thought that the change was in there. I just wanted to make sure. "The defendant shall use its best efforts to cooperate in any efforts by the owner." I just wanted to make sure -- I don't know if that is agreeable to you or MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 182 whatever, but I just didn't want to pass on that without knowing where we stand on that. MR. ROBERTS: That's fine. Well, I mean "with any owner" is down there in the last sentence. MR. HAMBRIC: It is. MAYOR VORESS: Where are we now, under mutual releases? MR. ROBERTS: Paragraph 13. MR. YATES: 13, page eleven. MS. MARIANO: 17 of Rusty's. MS. THOMSEN: I don't think it matters. MAYOR VORESS: We're in good shape with that. MR. ROBERTS: We're talking about mutual releases and dismissal of appeals, and from a general principle you want the appeal dismissed at the outset and we can't do that because once the appeal is dismissed, then the underlying judgment is valid and that's too much of a risk to us because what happens between the dismissal of the appeal and the court entering the judgment is the time frame which anything could happen. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 183 MS. THOMSEN: I think as long as -- really it seems to me that as long as everything takes place simultaneously that -- MR. ROBERTS: Well, it can't. I mean you have to -- as I understand appellate practice, you'd have to relinquish jurisdiction but not dismiss the appeal to go back to the Court, and I think the Court would enter the order as a matter of course but if a federal judge is appointed for life, you never know what happens. MS. THOMSEN: I know. MR. ROBERTS: So once the order is entered, then obviously that negates the appeal by force of law, just by happening. Okay? MS. THOMSEN: Why don't we look at that. MR. ROBERTS: Timing wise on the money I mean this is tied up, you've got here upon -- we have the releases effective as of the order date, you say upon payment of all sums due, and, you know, that really depends upon when payment occurs. MS. THOMSEN: Right, exactly. MR. ROBERTS: It may occur at the MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 184 same time, but certainly we understand that a release would not be executed if there was money to be paid in the future to release you from paying money. The same thing with E on when the satisfaction of judgment is made, and again this goes to the principle in our view that this agreement is entitled -- is envisioned to control the relationships between us two parties and that anything that went on before is water under the dam. And that to hold a satisfaction of judgment over is not consistent with that thought. We have a new agreement. We've given you certainly under this new agreement which we feel are generous benefits to run to the court in a non -jury proceeding, and, quite frankly, we agree with that, and if there's some breach to it we want it determined quickly and that's why we came up with the penalty phase in there. You know, we don't want to drag this out. If you think -- or your people think there's something wrong and we disagree, we want it determined quickly to get it out of the way and that's why we've agreed to that, but to sit here and say, well, I'm going to hold all these other things over your head we feel is inconsistent with that theory of the MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 185 MR. HAMBRIC: Let me ask a question. I mean if the town can't pay the money all at once and you give me a million dollars today, the Court comes back tomorrow and finds a unanimous decision on the town's side on what keeps you from that point of then saying, well, we're not going to go ahead and fund the other X number of dollars whatever that is. MR. ROBERTS: You go right back to -- I mean assuming in your scenario that we have agreed this has been approved by the Court you mean? MR. HAMBRIC: I guess I'm lost on the logistics somehow. I mean typical to dealing with a debtor is someone they walk in and hand you the money, everybody just shakes hands and leaves, here's your note, here's your property back, everybody's happy and we leave. When you finance some kind of settlement, you're always holding something back to make sure that the party that you're settling with finishes or completes the funding of the settlement, and that's what I'm looking for, Rusty. MR. RAND: You're going to have a MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 court ordered judgment requiring us to pay. MR. ROBERTS: All you have to do is enforce the judgment. MR. HAMBRIC: In what amount? MR. ROBERTS: That will be specified what are we agreeing to pay. MS. THOMSEN: In other words, what you end up with, though -- if you get your money, I mean this is the argument we had in the very beginning which is if you can do things simultaneously and have money in hand or settlement stipulation in escrow or something like that, then you -- or judgment in escrow, you have what is really what you're used to which is a closing where you give me what I want and I give you what you want, but when you have a settlement, and this is something we do fairly often, we don't settle with people to get paid out for a lesser sum of money and then be in the position of suing them to try to get the lesser sum of money instead of the sum of money that we originally had. So there has to be a mechanism where we just aren't giving up our rights and then are back in court suing you for trying to get the five -- whatever amount of money we agree MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 187 to, and maybe it can be done with some type of an escrow arrangement or whatever. We want -- we would prefer to do the deal. We don't want to go back and haggle about anything else. We want the sum of money agreed to and nothing more, but we don't want to be suing to get it because we've signed it and agreed to it and we haven't been paid it. MR. ROBERTS: If you file a suit to collect on one of your notes, okay, what's your ultimate goal by going to the court? MS. THOMSEN: To collect. MR. ROBERTS: To get a judgment. Right? MS. THOMSEN: To get a judgment in that amount. MR. ROBERTS: The Court is not going to collect it for you. To get a judgment in that amount. MR. HAMBRIC: At this point we already have a judgment. MR. ROBERTS: But what I'm saying when you go to sue on something, you go to court and sue to get a judgment. In this case you've already got the judgment specifying the amount. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 We've given you right beyond that first step. So now if you have a judgment saying we're going to pay a million dollars in one year and a million in two years, the second one doesn't get paid, you can go in there and say, Judge, hold them in contempt because they haven't paid the judgment, and that's what the judge will do. Okay? You've already got your judgment. You've skipped step one. What more could you want? MS. THOMSEN: What you've done is you've entered in an agreement for delayed payment reducing -- what you've done is you have -- rather than getting paid the amount of judgment that you had you've entered into an agreement to take, what, fifty percent of it, twenty-five percent of what your judgment is to be paid in the course of a year, and then what do you have, you have the opportunity to be in lawsuit again, only then your up side is not the twenty million you have but the five million you have. You're back to where you were because you didn't get paid out. You compromised what you had for something of much less value, and now you have the opportunity to be fighting over getting paid again. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 189 MR. HAMBRIC: I think this comes back in when we talk about -- I know the last time we met we went on with this philosophical discussion, we went away from looking at terms, it went into cash. That way everybody could go away with one time payment. I think maybe that's the issue, when you talk about the money that may resolve this issue. MR. ROBERTS: I mean this is just -- I think we've gone far afield from what we're talking about. These provisions really relate to some sort of security as Chris says. And we're not giving you any security because we're giving you better than any security we could ever give you. We're giving you a judgment in advance. MS. THOMSEN: For the full amount of the judgment that we already have. MR. HAMBRIC: You're giving me a judgment for the settlement amount and if you don't comply to the settlement amount -- MR. ROBERTS: If we're back to that point, we can just call it quits and leave right now. MR. HAMBRIC: But that's the discussion, Rusty, if you want to call it quits MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 190 and walk out, that's fine, but that's the discussion we worked through the night we met over at the Hilton or the Hyatt, wherever we were. We never got past how you handle do I have a twenty million dollar judgment or do I have a five million dollar deal. That's kind of how we evolved in the idea of let's get away from sliding scales, let's get away from term payments. Let's look at something that pays everybody out at one time and then you don't have all these arguments. MR. EYPEL: Hold on a second. I'd like to say something if I may here. I've listened and I'm trying to interpret here what's being said. And I think we have some folks here who really don't understand a few of the issues, and I'm going to be very candid with you. Mr. Hambric, in all the communications that I've seen over the years, and I've been on this commission for the last four and a half years, you referred in your letter that you would like to have this money wire transferred into your account and you're now talking about moneys being paid to you immediately so that you do not have to sue for a judgment or whatever. Do you know the size of MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 this town, Mr. Hambric? MR. HAMBRIC: MR. EYPEL: assets are? 191 Do you know how much -- Yes. Do you know what our MR. HAMBRIC: I don't know your assets. I know the size of the town. MR. EYPEL: Sir, there is no way that we could pay you that sum of money tonight or tomorrow or next week because we don't have it, Mr. Hambric. This is a very small town. MR. HAMBRIC: We understand that. MR. EYPEL: And I think you're accustomed to dealing with Baltimore and New York and Chicago where people can write you checks for ten million, twenty million, and say thank you very much. We're talking about small potatoes here. MR. HAMBRIC: Commissioner, I'll take your bonds as opposed to New York and Baltimore bonds next time you issue some. We understand that there's going to be a closing period of time and it will take you some time to borrow money or do other things to raise funds, and that was the idea when I says that we'll have a closing, when we sign an agreement it takes MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 192 thirty days, twenty-five days, sixty days, we recognize it will take you a period of time to do the funding. Our concern has always been, and again no reflection on anyone sitting in this room, but the concern has always been if I was the town and I want to be a bad guy, I agree to pay five million dollars over -- if it's sixty days, two days or whatever the time frame is, I agree to pay five million dollars. The court comes back and says, RTC, you have no claim. At that point I would tell RTC I've paid you a million dollar down payment, go fight for the rest because you'll win four million dollars or let me flip it, I'm going the wrong way. The court comes back we win twenty million dollars, we've entered into an agreement for five million dollars, we give up our right to go after the twenty if the town defaults on the five. MR. RAND: Mr. Hambric, where do you give up your right? If we only pay a million and we're supposed to pay you two and we only pay you a million and then default on the agreement, then there is no settlement. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 193 -- and Judith is saying, if Jay owes me a hundred bucks and I try to collect from him, I'm not able to collect from him and I have an agreement with him, okay, pay me ten bucks, we agree to that and we write a document that says I'll pay him ten bucks, and then Jay doesn't pay me the ten bucks, when I go back to court I only get the ten dollars rather than a hundred. Is that what you're saying? MR. HAMBRIC: You articulated that better than I did. MAYOR VORESS: And what you're saying is that if there is -- if you people can't trust the town, you still want to be able to go back and get the hundred bucks. MR. HAMBRIC: Right. MAYOR VORESS: Rather than the ten dollars. Is that basically what I'm -- MR. HAMBRIC: That's correct. MAYOR VORESS: -- I'm hearing from you? Is that making any sense? MR. RAND: But if the agreement, if you have a settlement agreement which calls for payment of X amount of dollars and we only pay a portion of it and then for one reason or another MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 194 we don't pay the balance or default on it, then this agreement is null and void, in which case you're not relinquishing your rights. MR. HAMBRIC: Is that what the agreement says though? MR. YATES: If it says that I think that would be fine. But I don't think it says this is null and void and we go back to the existing litigation judgment. MS. THOMSEN: I believe we agreed to dismissing the action and everything else so that our judgment that we had -- if that were the case, I'd be just absolutely comfortable. MR. RAND: If the court orders us to pay you two and a half million dollars, okay? And we give you a million up front and we don't pay you the million and a half within the time frame agreed upon. Okay? Then there is a default in that judgment, in that court order, is there not? Is that not the case? Okay. So you have remedies then. MS. THOMSEN: We do but what we're doing, I mean we're still arguing over when we're getting paid. What we've done is we've released our rights for any other amount of money and MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 195 we're still not paid, we're just arguing over getting paid. We're still trying to exercise our rights to get paid. And that's the difference. MR. RAND: Jay has been -- I feel a little annoyed by the implication of the remarks, you keep referencing to the fact with how you've been dealt with or how your client has been dealt with over the years. This commission has had nothing whatsoever to do with this litigation as you know and neither have you. Now, we have invited you to come before us to give you a clear cut demonstration, all of us here ensemble to tell you that we are genuinely interested in reaching a settlement. Otherwise we wouldn't be interested in wasting your time or our time. So we're just trying to discuss between us what sort of settlement would be mutually satisfactory that we come away both sides satisfied that we made a good deal. As of right now you have no judgment. The Court has vacated the judgment. So we're trying to find a way now to reach an amicable settlement with you, but by virtue of the remarks that you're making, you're implying that you don't have trust in us and I think that's an unfair statement to make. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 196 MR. HAMBRIC: Well, I think that's an unfair statement for you to say that. For the last two years I've met with Mayor Voress maybe quarterly to try to make sure we have open communication, that the Mayor and the Town Commission did not have anything to do with these decisions, that the RTC did not make these decisions, that we've both been thrown into a battle that neither one of us drew the sword. We're now fighting over something that someone else put us into that position, but, again, representing the federal government and the federal taxpayers, there's a history involved with the town and the settlement and the development of this property. MR. RAND: There's a history involved with the prior commission, not with this commission. There's a big difference. MR. HAMBRIC: But it's the town I'm dealing with and I understand that, and I don't think that anybody -- there's a person without honor among us, but at the same time I have to represent my client, the taxpayers. And it's very difficult for me to go back when the GAO, the Congress, the IG and everybody audits me, and MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 197 if this deal falls apart, for some reason it falls apart, I mean you and I are still going to be friends and walk away from this place if it falls apart, but someone is then going to come in and say, RTC, you gave up your rights to a transaction. Why did you do that? It would be very difficult for me to get in front of a Congressional committee much like you're sitting here, sitting down looking up and saying, well, gentlemen, I thought everybody was a good guy, it would all work out and we shook hands, and, you know, a man's handshake is his deal. Unfortunately not everything goes that way. And, again, I'm not indicting anyone on my side or your side. That's just the way business works sometimes. MS. THOMSEN: And unfortunately also we don't have the comfort, of course you don't know what you'd be dealing with as a developer, we don't know who the Commissioners are going to be throughout the course of this development necessarily. I mean that kind of is exemplified by the litigation to some extent in that there was a change in management of the town. MR. RAND: This commission is going MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. HAMBRIC: I've got to close the RTC office by December of this year and we've both decided before this time I guess he's running again, we've both made this our mission we're going to settle this before either one of us goes on to our next life so -- VICE MAYOR PAUL: What you said about future commissions, I think in our discussions previously among ourselves one thing we are trying to do in this is make it so that down the line some other people sitting like us aren't faced with the same thing that we are faced with now, and I have to say I very much resent you implying that the town has mistreated people through the ages on this property because in many cases they have not been -- they have never come and been strictly turned down by -- told they could not build something. MR. HAMBRIC: Again, listen, guys, I'll bend over if you all want to whip me, if you want to take a whip and whip me I'll take it because that's part of my job, but the truth of MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 199 the matter is there is a litigation history that says the developer was harmed. Now, right now that's at the appellate level, but we all have to agree at some point and the Court some time said the developer was harmed, but, again, no one here did that, and I'm not implying anyone would do anything wrong in the future. I'm just stating the facts of what has happened in the past and those facts have been upheld by the Court and they're currently under review again by the Court. The Court may change its mind. I mean that's factual at this point. I'm not saying anyone did anything wrong. I don't mean to offend anyone here and I' m not offended if you think I'm offending you. VICE MAYOR PAUL: I believe we need a break at this point. MAYOR VORESS: I was going to say maybe two things. MR. AUGENSTEIN: Can I ask you a question? MR. HAMBRIC: Yes, sir. MR. AUGENSTEIN: You said you represent the taxpayers of this country? MR. HAMBRIC: Yes, sir. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 200 MR. AUGENSTEIN: Could you explain to me how you represent the taxpayers of Highland Beach? MR. HAMBRIC: I represent two hundred sixty million citizens of the United States. MR. AUGENSTEIN: I didn't ask you that, sir. MR. HAMBRIC: I'll tell you what. At one point when Gonzalez was chair of the banking committee his general counsel called and she made the comment, she said this is a small town, and I said, yes, I understand that, and am I supposed to represent seven thousand taxpayers or two hundred sixty million Americans, and she said your job is to represent the federal taxpayers, not on the local level. And I have empathy and sympathy for you. I mean everyone forgets I've got this job, but I've got to mail a check here next week and I'm in the same boat as everybody else. MS. MARIANO: Let's -- I think some of this is kind of off to the sides, but let's just say one thing. We are trying to arrive at something that is acceptable for both parties. I MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 201 keep hearing implications of, you know, what's the down side, what's the down side, and implications, well, you know, we're giving up twenty million for five and then we have to get you five. Let's also consider the down side that you may be getting whatever it is the Commission decides to give you versus getting nothing and no development parameters at all, so let's -- we know our risks and we just want to be sure you know your risks. MR. HAMBRIC: I get paid to know my I know my risks, trust me. MS. THOMSEN: We have advised about MAYOR VORESS: Can I call a time out for a second, please? I think two things. One, I think we probably need to break for something to eat, and, secondly, I think, Jay, you made a suggestion let's go on, we'll move on about this issue when we get around, the money may resolve some of the things, so let's if the Commission agrees, let's move on and would everybody like to have something to eat at this point in time? MR. ROBERTS: Why don't we do this, Mayor. Let me suggest that I think we're at MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 202 loggerheads at this, quite frankly. We'd like to get to you our thoughts on the building parameters, so I'll just tell them to you and you can mull them over so we can more intelligently discuss. If we go to the Exhibit B, we don't have a problem with the additions and deletions and the heading or the paragraph one. I think there's disagreement about going to eighteen stories. I guess one question was, was it twelve feet stories total residential or just twelve feet parking stories. MR. HAMBRIC: Rusty, I'll have to look somewhere on that. I'm not sure. I'll tell you what came up -- two parking stories, I don't know if those are traditionally twelve feet or ten feet. MR. ROBERTS: It could be read two ways. MR. HAMBRIC: I mean I'm willing to say ten feet except when I called Arlin or dropped him a note last time when we talked to some land use people, they said it may be better use of the property to build two towers as opposed to three and two towers were better MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 203 suited, you needed sixteen buildable stories, is that right, sixteen? MAYOR VORESS: Yes. MR. HAMBRIC: Sixteen buildable stories and the garage, so we were again trying to develop this envelope to tell developers if you want to go three, that's okay. If you want to go with two, that's okay, but here's your ceiling in any event, whether you go three or two. MAYOR VORESS: The confusion is the twelve feet here. If it's twelve feet for eighteen stories, it's different than if it's twelve feet for two stories or ten feet for sixteen. MR. HAMBRIC: I'm thinking again it would be cheaper to build two ten -story parking garages than twelve story which is a lot of concrete and steel to park a car under. But I think we can work -- twelve for residential. I think we can clear that up. MR. ROBERTS: Well, again, there was confusion on that. There's certainly some resistance to eighteen stories when sixteen was seemingly discussed before. As far as the east MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 204 parcel, too, the ten -foot story we thought was significant because otherwise, you know, it could be three stories without any limitation, could be again 36, 45, 58 feet depending on how high the stories you put. MR. HAMBRIC: That's something we probably need to work out and clear up, but I think in the original plan there were atrium ceilings or something so you couldn't build if you did it at the ten feet. Or the cathedral ceiling or atrium ceiling. So that -- MR. ROBERTS: Atrium ceiling on the three-story building? Who knows? Okay. Let me just also the setback of -- you wanted thirty feet on C. That was fine. As far as building in the setback thirty on -- MAYOR VORESS: On the east side and f orty -- MS. MARIANO: And forty on the west side. MR. ROBERTS: Okay. As far as amenities, we would suggest a ten -foot setback for that. MR. HAMBRIC: Tennis courts, shuffleboard? MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 205 MR. ROBERTS: Yes. MR. HAMBRIC: Sounds reasonable. MR. ROBERTS: There wasn't a lot of agreement on the size of the units suggested by you of 1,400 square foot for a three-bedroom seemed awfully small and inconsistent with the aesthetics of the town as a general principle. MR. HAMBRIC: Again, Rusty, I think the developer will come in and this is trying to build a floor, I wouldn't expect if I was a builder I just -- I doubt if anything is 1,400 square foot and built for a three-bedroom but I don't want to limit myself. There may be some units on the bottom floors that aren't as nice as the units on the top floors but -- MR. ROBERTS: Well, I mean we were thinking, you know, that's certainly a topic of discussion because I mean I don't know what the RPUD, I think the RPUD units were bigger than that, quite frankly, and I think the code in 185 was, you know, more consistent with ours, too, so -- MR. HAMBRIC: I can't remember, but I thought they were smaller. MR. ROBERTS: They were small in the MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 206 original one, okay? But then when the -- MR. HAMBRIC: That was the 600 units when it moved down to the other number. MR. ROBERTS: When they moved to the 620 they got bigger. MR. YATES: We looked at a sampling of units in your marketplace right now and that's how we came up with it. MR. HAMBRIC: These came from the comps. They came from the comps. MR. ROBERTS: I mean you can tell that we need further discussion on that. On number seven we were unsure as to why you wanted to delete "as adopted by the town" or "as applicable to development of the town." MR. HAMBRIC: That's not deleted in mine. MS. THOMSEN: That's why you have this here. That is deleted. MS. MARIANO: We can't delete that because that deals with county impact taxes. MR. HAMBRIC: Judith says that's not a very big issue. MR. ROBERTS: Again we're in the $1,300 per unit. I think that was it as far as MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 207 the -- that area, and then the only other thing is, you know, I think really, and I suggest before we break that we really kind of broach that subject as far as money. We feel at this time and to be candid with you, 2.5 million dollars as you can see the construction of that is something we can come up with in cash. Anything beyond that we have to go into financing and stuff like that and a variety of different things, none of which, as Commissioner Eypel says, is available. And so we kind of feel that, you know, we made our best offer and you've come back and said our offer is still the same, so we're looking for some movement on your part and some suggestions for options. MR. HAMBRIC: Okay. Let's define immediately available first. Cash reserves -- MR. ROBERTS: It's available as suggested in our offer. Okay? MR. HAMBRIC: Okay. But while you all have a break and have dinner, I'm assuming -- I've made a couple of phone calls to a few city governments, and I understand you can borrow money, city governments can borrow money, go to Barnett Bank and borrow money, and I guess you MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 W • can pledge water revenues or something, there's a vehicle for city governments to borrow money. MR. ROBERTS: Finish. And I'll MR. HAMBRIC: I'm assuming there's a vehicle, if the dollar's ten million dollars, five million dollars or three million dollars, if there's some parts you don't have in cash reserve you can't write a check for that there's a vehicle available to do that in a timely fashion. MR. ROBERTS: Okay. In response to that, as Commissioner Eypel tried to imply to you, this town is different from most other towns because its only source of revenue is ad valorem taxation, water sewer revenues -- Boynton Beach up here when we checked into this in the Tradewinds matter passed a revenue bond and not in accordance with ad valorem taxation and it avoids them having to go to referendum. State law says that if you use ad valorem taxation, you've got to do bonds, you've got to do a referendum. Okay? Even if the court orders it, okay, it's our view that, sure, the court orders it, but we still have to comply with that and we MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 209 have to do a bond issue. Even if we could circumvent the referendum. In a bond issue, to float a bond issue in this town would not get you any money before next April. Okay? It's just physically impossible. Okay? Now, if you went out and said, gee, I want to borrow this money in anticipation of this and not having a judgment, you know, that's -- it's the same thing as a bond. Okay? The only source of revenue this town has is ad valorem taxation, and that throws into all of the state problems you've got to deal with. There are ways around it, no question, but the fact of the matter is we only collect that what, once a year. MS. MARIANO: Well, it comes in MR. ROBERTS: Three times a year. And it's all budgeted. Why you have ninety days in there because, sure, there's reserves in there but in order to spend that without personal liability you've got to change your budget, and that requires a move from the state. It may be less than ninety days, we picked an outside date of ninety days from the time that we feel we can MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 210 get that accomplished in. So that's what we're saying. There are vehicles available, none of which is simply write a check. Okay? MR. HAMBRIC: Early on I told Mayor Voress that the RTC would finance the settlement, so if you want to execute a note with us we'll finance the settlement. MR. RAND: That's a solution. You lend us the money say for six months with the right to prepay without interest and we'll be happy to comply. VICE MAYOR PAUL: But we're still under the restraint because that's borrowed money. MR. ROBERTS: It's not that we can't borrow, it's how you repay it, and that's when you get into the peculiars of dealing with the state and federal statute and supremacy and all that. MR. HAMBRIC: We're flexible on that as long as there are protections that we all do what we say we're going to do. We're flexible on that issue. MR. ROBERTS: What we're looking at -- MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 211 MR. HAMBRIC: What time is it now? MR. RAND: Ten after seven. MR. HAMBRIC: How long do you all want to break for? I don't know how much time you need. MR. ROBERTS: An hour? MR. HAMBRIC: We'll be ready on or before an hour. MR. ROBERTS: What I think we'll do is we'll break quickly and come back and discuss some of these things. And you discuss. We'll be back in an hour and we'll get together and meet in an hour. MAYOR VORESS: Temporarily adjourn the meeting. (A recess is taken.) MR. ROBERTS: We are reconvening the meeting at 8:07, and this is the meeting of the Commission with myself and Ms. Mariano without Mr. Hambric, Miss Thomsen and Mr. Yates. MAYOR VORESS: Well, to summarize, where do you think we stand, Rusty? MR. ROBERTS: I think as far as the general concepts and general principles, we're probably not any better off than we were three MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 212 hours ago. I mean, you know, the things that we've accomplished I think are, you know, just minor semantic matters, but I think that the main concepts are still there. I think we can get around on page five, you know, that applies only to this property, and I think we can add just, you know, the development parameters apply only to this property. Okay? I mean I think that's the main concept there. As far as RPUD, whether it's this or the Delwell parameters, I mean I hesitate to rear that not knowing what those things are, and I think you need to know what those are. As far as the time limitation, I mean I think that, you know, ten years is a long, long time. VICE MAYOR PAUL: Right. Right. MAYOR VORESS: Yes. MR. ROBERTS: And if their concept is they want to sell it in a year or six months, you know, why haven't they sold it already? MR. AUGENSTEIN: Well, perhaps the owner doesn't want to buy it with the litigation pending. MR. ROBERTS: Well, sure, but the MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 213 order date, by going from the order date the litigation is over as of that date. VICE MAYOR PAUL: Right. Right. MR. AUGENSTEIN: I just spoke with them for a few minutes outside. I get the feeling they're very anxious. MR. ROBERTS: They're very what? MR. AUGENSTEIN: They're anxious. They're not acting like it but I get the feeling. MR. ROBERTS: They may be. I guess my feeling is if they took the time to fly everybody down here, you know, they may be willing to give on these things to get rid of this. I mean I got a sense in the back of my mind that there's some urgency on their part to sell it and they're going to put up the best face. MR. AUGENSTEIN: I feel the same way. VICE MAYOR PAUL: We haven't hit on anything major to me. We're right back -- we're getting the second bite of the apple if somebody blinks from them. MR. ROBERTS: I guess in the context of things, you know, they gave -- they had our MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 214 picture, they gave their reaction, and now they've got our reaction back to it. Okay? So now really we're at the crossroads. MAYOR VORESS: We need to hear what they come back to say to us. MR. ROBERTS: We're at the crossroads of whether they're going to agree or they're going to fold. We presented -- you know, they presented theirs and it was just totally -- MAYOR VORESS: I think they're coming now. MR. HAMBRIC: I'm waiting on my attorney to get off the phone. MS. MARIANO: I don't think we're quite ready, Jay. MR. HAMBRIC: We'll knock on the door. MR. ROBERTS: Okay. Thanks. MAYOR VORESS: Rusty, I think that my conception is I think some of the things are workable. I think there are two major issues, one this whole issue of relief where that's due to Thomsen's bid that if we don't follow through that they would like to have the ability to go back and charge us with the total current MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 215 judgment of eighteen to twenty million dollars, whatever that number is. I think the other issue is around money and I think we need to further define for them what our degrees of freedom are to get money in terms of -- I'm not sure they understood what Charlie Schoech's piece was about a court order gives us substantially different degrees of freedom. MR. ROBERTS: Well, the problem with that concept is that there has been no question all along that there was going to be a court order and judgment. I mean there's no dispute that this stipulation is going to be an order. Okay? And so let's take, for instance, that we put in here that we'll pay them 5.5 million dollars. Okay? MAYOR VORESS: Or whatever. MR. ROBERTS: Just for purposes of argument. Okay? You say we accept what they say, we pay 5.5 million dollars. The issue that you have to incorporate into the agreement is how are you going to pay that? MAYOR VORESS: Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 216 MR. ROBERTS: Okay? And since you cannot just write a check, how are you going to do that? MAYOR VORESS: Well, that discussion needs to be held. MR. ROBERTS: Well, but I think you have to have the discussion here first. MAYOR VORESS: I understand. MR. ROBERTS: Because I think there's a lot of different alternatives. Some might be more acceptable than others. MAYOR VORESS: Correct. MR. ROBERTS: Okay? You know, it's bandied about, well, I can go out and borrow the money. Well, if you go out and borrow three million dollars, I mean I don't think that there's been any input as to how much did that cost. I mean that could end up costing you another three million dollars. Okay? And if you're going to pay off so much a year, how are you going to do that? I mean, you know, that's the thing about all those concepts. It seems to me from what I know and what I've heard from Charlie and what I know of the law that the simplest way is simply to pay it MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 217 off in installments on an annual basis and that way you just raise taxes, one mill, two mills, and you do that. I'm not so sure that's acceptable to them. They're talking about going -- I don't know why it wouldn't be because if they're seller financing anything else, that's essentially seller financing. Okay? MR. RAND: But their concern was that they sign the agreement and we don't come up with the money, in which case they're giving up a seventeen million dollar judgment and maybe only get a million and a half or two and a half million dollars and we walk away. I think that's one of their concerns as to why they're being so insistent on these so-called escape clauses. I think the proper thing to do is to explain to them openly, honestly the problems that we have in being able to come up with this money regardless of what the figure may be. I think we ought to tell them straight out we can come up with a certain amount of money in advance. Okay? Which is not too difficult. It's beyond the amount that we're talking about that may require a borrowing, and the question is how can we borrow. The only way we can borrow MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 218 without going the route of a referendum is on the basis of a court order. That's the strategy that we've employed ever since we've come to this agreement. So since he has now indicated that he is prepared to lend us the money, then I think we have a perfect solution in that in this agreement they provide a condition or a clause in here that they will lend us X amount of dollars, okay, repayable in a six-month period of time with the right of our being able to prepay without any penalty depending on what interest rate they're looking for. Hopefully we can get it interest free. Now, however, this money will not be paid or this loan will not be concluded until such time as this stipulation or this settlement stipulation is approved by court order. Then and only then do we take the loan from the RTC. Therefore, we circumvent the need for a referendum. It is done on the basis of a court order. We borrow the money only after the court has approved this judgment. We now have six months first to come up with part of it from our reserves, part of it from the insurance company, and then the difference we have a six-month period to work out MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor 6 Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 219 a financing vehicle via a bond issue. I think it's very simple. MR. EYPEL: John, would this be an uncollateralized loan then? MR. RAND: They're not saying anything. They're going to lend us -- they're not saying whether it's based on future revenue. They're going to say we're going to lend you X amount of dollars repayable in six months' time with the right of prepayment penalty. MR. EYPEL: On the promise to pay? MR. RAND: Yes, of course. MR. AUGENSTEIN: John, what figure do you have in mind? MR. RAND: As far as a settlement is concerned? MR. AUGENSTEIN: Yes. MR. RAND: Well, I would like, as I indicated earlier, I would like to reach the middle. We talked about two and a half million; they want five million. I would think that four million hopefully would be a good settlement figure. MR. AUGENSTEIN: That leaves us with how much to borrow? MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 220 MR. RAND: A million and a half. MS. MARIANO: I need to -- as we're talking money, one of the things that came up and he was talking about whether it was two five or five five, about sitting in front of a Congressional meeting and having to do that. One of the things that we also need to keep in mind is that he has been told, and the Mayor and I and I think the rest of you know this, John Douglas has told us that he could settle for anything he wanted and he would not be called to task, so it's not where he could say how am I going to justify this. Whether he takes a million or whether he takes five million, he is not going to be called to task by his superiors, and he's already been told that. MAYOR VORESS: That's correct. But he has the right to say whatever he wants. MS. MARIANO: Well, he does, but I mean I think the argument that he has to justify it to the Congressional, that is not valid. Whatever a good settlement may be, it has to be based on other factors other than that argument because that's not a valid one. MR. AUGENSTEIN: John, how do you MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 221 MR. RAND: Very easy. We can submit the bids to Shearson, Lehman, Prudential, Merrill Lynch, tell them we want to borrow a million and a half dollars, and as I indicated in the last executive session, my thought would be to borrow this at a ten-year bond maturity. Okay? With no principal amortization, with a call option after five years, meaning that we only pay interest on that obligation, okay, semi-annually. We already have a cushion of $367,000 by virtue of the increase in our millage rate from the last budget, so assuming now we borrow a million and a half, and my guess would be the interest will be between six and seven percent per annum. Okay? So you're talking on a million and a half you're talking about $90,000 a year, $100,000 a year which we already have provided for in our budget, so we don't have to increase our millage rate. In five years time, if somebody buys this property, okay, they're not going to sit with it, believe me. This developer that he has obviously has intentions of building pretty quickly. All right? In which case if you wait five years MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 222 hopefully by that time there will be this building development in which case we have an increase assessed valuation basis, so that by that time, the end of five years, if we want to call in this bond, okay? We can then refinancing it, let's say, ten years more or fifteen years more, as the case may be, with principal amortization, but it would be less of a burden to our residents by virtue of the fact that our increased assessed valuation has increased. We have a larger basis on which to provide for repayment of this obligation. That's the whole strategy as far as I'm concerned as far as the financial vehicle is concerned, and I don't see that we would have any difficulty with the financial statement that we can show to borrow a million and a half dollars. I think they would jump at the chance. And there is no violation of a referendum or anything like that if you do it that way. Let them lend us the money only after this settlement stipulation is approved by court order. Then the loan becomes effective, in which case their concern about our running away from a deal and not paying them is a moot point because we now have an obligation to MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 223 pay them five and a half million or four million or whatever the hell the figure may be. So that should alleviate their concern about our running away from this deal and screwing them out of a couple million dollars. MR. EYPEL: John, would we still have the ability to replenish our reserves? MR. RAND: Oh, certainly, certainly. Going forward -- well, first of all, if you take a million and a half out of the reserves, assume that's the figure we use, you're still going to have by my calculation roughly 700,000 in unallocated reserves. Okay? We already are on a discussion as to how we're going to maintain a reserve posture going forward. X percent let's say of our annual budget. We always put in a cushion, what is it, about five percent, more or less? MS. MARIANO: A contingency. MR. RAND: Yes, a contingency. So we may decide based on the input from the Financial Advisory Board that we would have, let's say, a reserve equivalent to twenty-five percent of our annual budget, thirty percent, forty percent. It doesn't mean that we have to MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 224 do it in one year's time. We can build this up over a period of time. But such provisions should be made on an annual basis depending upon the circumstances prevalent in the town as to whether or not we are in a financial capacity to be able to generate additional provisions to build up our reserves, but we would have to try to replenish that reserve to what we consider to be a reasonable level. MR. AUGENSTEIN: John, in your opinion what would that mean to the millage rate? MR. RAND: Right now if you do it my way there would be no increase in the millage rate. We could still live with the millage rate that we increased it by. Because you've got three hundred odd thousand dollars -- MR. AUGENSTEIN: 367. MR. RAND: Yes, 367. We paid something like 36 or 40 so far, okay, so we have at least $300,000. If we only have to borrow a million and a half, okay, even if it's seven percent, I don't think it would go that high because there's no principal amortization here, so you'd have to pay an interest rate which is attractive in the marketplace, and I would say MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 225 right now that's between six and seven, so let's say seven just for the sake of hypothesis, they charge them seven percent on a million and a half, that's $105,000 a year. That's covered. We don't have to increase. So there's no additional burden to our taxpayer. You are deferring, so to speak, the repayment of this obligation in the future where we have an increased tax base so that the people that move into this property are also going to have to pay their fair share of the burden rather than us having to pick it up. That's why I'm opposed to paying, let's say, twenty-five percent a year in installments to them and take it out of a budget appropriation. I think it makes more sense to do it the way I suggested. MAYOR VORESS: Well, our tax base -- our assessed taxable base is right now 643,000. MR. RAND: 664 million. Our assessed valuation base is 664 million. MAYOR VORESS: Okay. MR. RAND: And if it goes up by three percent which it's entitled to do. Well, you've got new construction, too, where the three percent limitation doesn't apply. That's three MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 226 percent on existing assessment so you have new construction coming in here, so it could be another eighteen million or it could be another thirty million depending on what construction we have. You have Peter Ince building two houses. You have another house being constructed on AlA, on the east side of AlA. So we may have a larger assessed valuation base that may be even more palatable. MS. MARIANO: That's going to have to be offset by the cost of doing business, assuming everything being equal, and also building in the fact that we have a fire truck to pay for at a half a million dollars, somewhere along there. MR. RAND: Yeah, but I think that would be the route to go. And I think we ought to smoke them out and ask them, as Rusty has suggested, what figure do you have in mind as far as the monetary consideration is concerned. If they stick to five and a half million dollars, then you have to make up your mind whether you want to go that far or not. MR. AUGENSTEIN: I also want some of those restrictions taken out of here. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 227 MR. RAND: Oh, that goes without saying, but I think most of these restrictions would be moot points if you considered the fact that we're satisfying their concern about getting the money. Okay? By virtue of a loan to us. They then have a direct obligation, we can't argue the point. Okay? I frankly don't see the difference by what we're proposing to do and what they want to do because whether they are lending us the money or we go borrow the money, okay, we still can refuse to pay them back, too, so they're in the same vulnerable position as they would be if we borrowed the money from third sources. MS. MARIANO: I think that issue can be worked out easily. The other thing that they said was a deal breaker, the other big issue that needs to be decided here was whether the Commission wants to give them the remedy of being able to sue the town for more than what we're agreeing to in this settlement. That is the big sticking point. They want to be able to sue for more than we're agreeing to here. MR. AUGENSTEIN: If they're agreeing with us on a settlement -- MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 228 MR. RAND: Then I think it's academic. MR. AUGENSTEIN: Then I believe it's academic. MS. MARIANO: It's not academic. MR. AUGENSTEIN: If we're borrowing the money from them -- MS. MARIANO: It's still not academic. MR. ROBERTS: Perhaps it's a misconception. What you have to understand is that -- you know, we just talked about the money the last thing and they used the terminology if you didn't pay me, but I don't think there would ever be a problem whatsoever structuring how John said or anything like that, ever be a problem with paying them. I just can't envision that, number one, the town would ever not pay it, and, number two, like you say, John says, well, I'll give them a note and it will get repaid in ninety days. Well, if you didn't repay that note in ninety days, what would they have to do? They'd have to turn around and sue you. Okay? That's what I tried to explain to them. If I put it in the judgment that I owed to you or MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 229 something like that, you missed that whole first step of suit. If it's not paid in the date set forth in the judgment, then they just go to court and the judge holds you all five in contempt until you pay it. Okay? MAYOR VORESS: You made that point but I don't think they heard it. MR. ROBERTS: They don't understand it. That's the thing. It's not the -- you know, the concept, John, is not whether you're going to pay the amount you've agreed to pay. The concept here is that if some -- an employee, official or agent somehow in their view has impeded, impaired, slowed -- impeded and slowed are the same in Webster's Dictionary, okay -- them from either sale or development, okay? Now, look at it realistically. That property has sat for the last twenty years being impeded, impaired, slowed in development by the owner. They've claimed everybody has impeded, impaired and slowed them in development. Hoffman first accused the town of doing it. Then he accused the Corps of Engineers of doing it. Then he accused his partners of doing it. You know, everybody, developers are like that, and I guarantee you if MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 230 you sign this that they'll collect the five million dollars, it will be paid to them and then five years down the road the developer, when his development goes bust, will be in here doing just exactly what Broadview did. MAYOR VORESS: Absolutely. MR. ROBERTS: Okay? I can't make a go of it so now I got my scapegoat and it's the Town of Highland Beach. It's deja vu. It's exactly what happened in this case. Those guys got into a bad deal and so they turned to get to somebody to pay for it and they said ah -ha, it's the town. Okay? They had absolutely no idea from '82 on of developing this RPUD. It was simply a matter of getting somebody to try to cover their losses. MR. RAND: Rusty, when I raised that point about saying what you're saying here, what you're proposing rather is that the builder or the plaintiff can make such an allegation and it's one-sided. In other words, because they make the allegation, you then go into litigation without giving us an opportunity first to know what the violation is and giving us an opportunity to correct it, but I want to point MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 231 out to you we've already agreed if you look on page fourteen, it says prohibitions, "The defendant shall adopt no moratoria or any other form of zoning upon a property of the development contrary to the development parameters which shall or may impair or interfere directly or indirectly in any manner whatsoever with the sale or development of the property, except as provided herein. "The defendant shall not take any action, except as provided herein, which materially impairs, impedes, slows or stops the development from proceeding." We have already agreed to that in number twelve on page fourteen. MR. ROBERTS: The town has. MR. RAND: The town, okay, but I said -- VICE MAYOR PAUL: Not our employees or agents. MR. RAND: But they said they would address that. In other words, they recognize that we may have a point that it's one-sided. In other words, they make the allegation and right away we have a litigation in process. We said MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 232 that we should have the right to first know what the so-called allegation is and to seek a means of remedying that situation before you go into litigation. And I think they agreed to that. I thought they recognized that we had a point. MR. ROBERTS: Well, with all due respect, John, that's just illusory. Okay? Because if they come in, you know -- okay, I'm Mr. Developer, I come in and say, you know, Harry, the building official has been screwing around with a repair, how do you fix it, we can't, it's already done, I lost a million dollars. Okay? I'm going to court. If there's anything that can be fixed, it will be fixed. You don't need a cure to do it. It's just the, you know, it's the worst case scenario of risk that you're trying to deal with and if you allow yourself to be exposed to anything happening because I mean I can tell you where this comes from. Where it comes from is Elaine Roberts wrote to some state agency and says I don't want them to get their dredge and fill permit when the Town commission had in fact said okay. And she said, hey, I can exercise my First Amendment rights. You as a town may not agree, but I don't MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 233 think these people ought to kick the snail runners off their property, so she as the town manager, not on official stationery, wrote the DER or DERM or something like that and said I opposed and of course once there was opposition from somebody in the town that delayed them, interfered them, impeded them from getting that permit, and that's precisely what could happen. And if that does happen then you should not be held accountable for it. MAYOR VORESS: Let me add something to that, John, just a second. MR. RAND: Yeah. MAYOR VORESS: One of the things when we were originally talking about this which was the start of this process in Valley Forge, this issue that Judith Thomsen is bringing up is one that is stuck in her craw. She wants the right to go back and sue us for the total moneys. MR. ROBERTS: Sure. Absolutely. MAYOR VORESS: And that's specifically what in all of these words allow them to do that. MR. ROBERTS: That's right. MAYOR VORESS: And if we agree to MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 234 that, we are exposed during the life of this document to being sued again for eighteen to twenty million dollars, and I think that we cannot allow that to happen. VICE MAYOR PAUL: The same thing we had in 191 exactly. MR. AUGENSTEIN: I found that guilty thing eating in my craw. We have a bad history and we don't trust. MAYOR VORESS: There is no trust between them. I told you that before you saw it today. MR. AUGENSTEIN: I think we ought to decide what the maximum figure we're going to go. MR. RAND: I want to go back to this thing. I'm obviously concerned about the possibility that they might seek some excuse in order to come up with additional litigation over and above what we're settling here for, but we indicate in the agreement under remedies that if there is any default under this particular agreement that there shall be an expedited non -jury proceeding before a U.S. magistrate located in West Palm Beach, the magistrate in order to seek one or more remedies herein set MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 235 forth. Now, you mean to tell me that they would be limited as to how much they could sue if we default under this agreement? MAYOR VORESS: Under our proposal they were. MR. RAND: Where does it say that there's a limited amount? They could sue for fifteen million dollars, can't they? MS. MARIANO: Not on what we have. MR. RAND: Suppose now we decide five million bucks. Okay? I'm playing the role of a devil's advocate now. Okay? We settle this thing and we pay them the money that we mutually agree upon. Okay? Now, for some reason or other three years down the road they declare there's a default under this agreement. They talk with us, we can't come to a meeting of the minds. Now they go to court. MR. ROBERTS: What's the default? MR. RAND: So they say the town prevented them from building in accordance with this agreement. Okay? And we say there was no violation, there is nothing that we have done which is in violation of this agreement. They disagree and they go to court and they claim by MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 236 virtue of this litigation by virtue of our refusal to give them an agreement for whatever the pretense is at the time, they have lost ten million dollars from this delay. What's to stop them from suing for ten million dollars? There's nothing in here that limits the -- MAYOR VORESS: A thousand dollars a day. MR. RAND: That's the delay. That's the delay. That's all that is. MR. AUGENSTEIN: What page are you on? MR. RAND: Page 13. MAYOR VORESS: It's page 13 of Rusty Is. MR. RAND: It says here, "The parties stipulate and agree that the remedies available hereunder include, and the magistrate shall have the power to order mandatory and injunctive relief in order to specifically enforce this settlement." MS. MARIANO: But before that it says remedies hereinafter set forth. MR. RAND: Okay. MS. MARIANO: Which means it's MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 237 limited to the ones that were set forth by us. MR. RAND: Where does it set forth what the amount is? MS. MARIANO: Right there when you look in the brackets of what was in there. Payment of a thousand dollars a day with no more than -- with a cap and actually incurred. MR. RAND: That's for delay. MR. ROBERTS: That's right. MR. RAND: That's for delays. MS. MARIANO: Right. MR. RAND: But that doesn't have anything to do with litigation. They can still sue under this agreement if there is a default under it. MR. AUGENSTEIN: We have to clear that up. That should be cleared up. MR. RAND: Well, am I wrong, Rusty, or not? If there is a default under this agreement and we can't remedy the situation, they go to court. Are you telling me that the most they can sue us for is five million dollars? I don't see any amount here. They can sue us for fifteen. They can sue us for thirty million dollars. What's to stop them? MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 238 MAYOR VORESS: No. MR. RAND: What do you mean no? MAYOR VORESS: That's not what this particular document says. MR. RAND: Well, show me what it says. It just says -- MAYOR VORESS: It says a thousand dollars a day. MR. RAND: That's for the delay. Payment by the defendant of monetary damages for any sums due hereinunder, okay, for any delay proven of no more than a thousand dollars per day, with a calendar year cap of no more than sixty if the magistrate determines that development has been delayed as a result of action by the defendant which violates this agreement. And actually incurred and paid the attorneys, but that doesn't mean they can't sue us under this agreement if there is a default to prevent them from building this property. That's the point I'm trying to make. So the fact that we're concerned that they may go back, and, believe me, I'm concerned about that, too. If that's what they're inferring here, then I think we ought to insist that it be removed, but I'm MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 239 suggesting that they still can sue us under this agreement and there's nothing in here which states that they are limited to the amount that they could sue us for. That's the point I'm MR. AUGENSTEIN: What's your opinion, Rusty? MR. ROBERTS: Well, you have to understand the complaint. One, when you speak in generalities it's hard to come with answers like what is a default. If they think there's a default in the agreement, what does the agreement require you to do? The agreement only requires you -- prohibits you from adopting zoning that -- not approving a site plan in these parameters it's limited after you get past the payment of money to simply allowing them to build under certain restrictions in zoning. No different than what you do on a daily basis under your zoning code. And if they come -- the only way that they would come in with a default in the agreement is if you refuse to grant them some permit and they could go down to the court and say he refused to grant me the permit. The court would say, what's your reason? Here's my MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 240 reason. You're wrong. Give him the permit. Case closed. MS. MARIANO: They are limited. I think they're limited. MR. ROBERTS: That's specific enforcement, mandatory injunction, the judge says give them the damn permit, and, by the way, we've taken sixty days so you owe them $60,000 during the time of the permit. What else is there in the agreement that you could default on? MR. RAND: Then why should we be concerned about their seeking other remedies if that's the case? MR. ROBERTS: Because -- you know, Arthur and I had this conversation talking about the finance. You have to understand the settlement agreement is a contract between you and these people. It's under contract principles much like your mortgage on your house or your borrowing money. Is there anything in your mortgage which says -- gives you the ability that once you've borrowed the money and you don't like or they have impaired the way you've lived in the house or they have delayed you like that, you can go back to them and say, well, no, I don't want MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 241 to pay you the money? No, because when drawing up a contract like that you make the remedies specific. Okay? This is contractual law. You want to identify exactly what your contractual rights are and what your remedies are. And we have done that. They don't want that. They want to say, gee, if you don't live up to the contract, I can chuck the contract aside, keep the five million you've paid me and sue you for eighteen million dollars. And we're saying no, you take the five million dollars, this is over here, you're limited to exactly what's in this contract. If there is a default you don't have to sue me for it. You don't have to file a new suit and have an answer and dismiss it. I'm giving you the ability to go direct to the judge expeditiously and determine whether you're right or I'm right on this default. That's all. MR. RAND: How long would it take to get a judge to make such a ruling? Is there a court docket in that sense as well? MR. ROBERTS: I don't know. That's why I've put a cap on it of $60,000 a year. Okay? A lot of it depends upon whether the judge MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 242 is on vacation, but that's one of the reasons why you've gone to the magistrate, they're much more available than a district court judge. If it was a state court judge, I know I could probably get in there in thirty days, but they're tied up and wanting to go to the magistrate, and that's fine with me, too. MR. RAND: Well, I got the impression that they agreed with the point that I made that it's a one-sided clause in that somebody can make an allegation that we have defaulted under this agreement or have impeded or slowed or whatever it may be, and I think he said -- I think you have a point, let's reword the language. MS. MARIANO: Only to come to the Commission, but the end result was still the same. The end result that they can seek relief without -- you know, an unlimited relief depending upon whatever a judge says. MR. RAND: But we're responsible for the action of any employee in this town in the normal course of events in any event. We're responsible for your actions, we're responsible for the actions of any employee, aren't we? MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 243 MS. MARIANO: Not if you settled something under a different -- MR. RAND: What if a police chief goes out and kills somebody? MR. ROBERTS: You're not responsible if she writes a letter to the Corps of Engineers and says don't give these guys documents because they're scumbags and that holds them up. You're not responsible for that. It's not her duty to do that. MR. RAND: But then they wouldn't sue her, they'd sue the town, wouldn't they? VICE MAYOR PAUL: That's right. That's what we're trying to stop. MS. MARIANO: If Lee Leffingwell does something or if Ethel does something and let's just say it affected our going forward, they can go to court and they can sue with -- there is no limit. This says you've gotten your money, you can sue us, you can go to the magistrate, you don't have to sue us, you don't even have to spend the money on that, go straight to the magistrate, but you're limited to either making us do what we didn't do, give us a fine for the time we held you up and whatever your MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 244 MR. ROBERTS: Here's a point then. They're absolutely correct, you're responsible for the acts of your employees within the scope and course of their employment. If they came in and asked for a permit and the building officials denied it under this agreement, as I have written, they can take you to court because that would be an official action of the town. And the court would say -- and I guarantee you you'd have your cure problem because they've got to serve you with a complaint. Realistically if -- I'm sure that they would simply say this is wrong, after Leffingwell said no, they'd walk right over to her office or collar one of you and say I'm going to sue your ass. And you'd have your opportunity to cure. You don't need that cured. If you get served with the papers, you could cure right then. Say come on down here, I'll give it to you. Okay? They're giving you nothing by this cure thing. What they want to gloss over is -- because they've already got that protection. If one of your employees or agents in a position that they're supposed to be in MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 245 causes a default, the defendant is going to court. The town is going to court. Because the town can only work through its agents anyway, but what they want is that they want to haul you into court, too, when the person outside of the scope of their employment exercising their First Amendment rights, as they're entitled to do, somehow impairs them. MR. RAND: Would it solve the problem if we ask them to take out the last sentence, "The enumeration of specific remedies herein shall not preclude the plaintiffs or any other owner from pursuing any other remedies or receiving any other relief." Would that resolve the problem, take out that last sentence? MR. ROBERTS: Why don't we just write it as I put it. What about pay by a defendant monetary damages of any sums due hereunder? What's the monetary damages for? MAYOR VORESS: He's on page thirteen of Rusty's original document. MR. ROBERTS: It's actually sixteen. MAYOR VORESS: I was looking at Rusty's original. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 246 MR. RAND: What you have, Rusty, is payment by defendant of liquidated damages for any delay proven of no more than $1,000 per day with a calendar year cap of no more than $60,000 if the magistrate determines that development has been delayed as a result of action by the defendant which violates this agreement and actually incurred and paid attorney's fees and costs for one attorney for the prevailing party. They are saying payment by the defendant of monetary damages or any sums due hereunder and, iii, payment of reasonable attorney's fees and costs actually incurred and paid in connection with any enforcement of this stipulation. So up to that point I don't see that there's any serious difference. MS. MARIANO: The word monetary damages is not defined. MR. RAND: That's what the judge has to decide. MS. MARIANO: That's what we don't want the judge to decide. MR. ROBERTS: What was the 31 million dollars? That's damages for delay in not being able to develop their property over nine MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 247 years. MR. RAND: "The magistrate shall have the power to order mandatory and injunctive relief in order to specifically enforce this settlement." What does that mean? MS. MARIANO: That means they'll make us do what we said we're going to do, give them a permit. MR. RAND: Mandatory and injunctive relief . MR. ROBERTS: Exactly what you have now. Mandatory injunction you must reinstate the RPUD-2 and give them reasonable modifications. If you don't -- they want more than they've got now. Okay? Mandatory injunction now just gives them the RPUD for five years and two months. Okay? From the time that it starts. Okay? Five years. They wanted ten years and the judge said no, five years. That's all you were delayed. Okay? MR. RAND: All right. Then we have to resolve the remedy issue this business about the employee and whatnot you want them to take that out or you want to see if they come up with more palatable language? MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 248 MR. ROBERTS: I want it out. MR. RAND: You want it out. MR. ROBERTS: The actions of the defendant is already in there, the town. That's the only thing you're responsible under the law and the only thing more importantly you can control. You want to be held responsible for something you can't control? If she writes a letter exercising her First Amendment right, there's nothing you can do. You can't even fire her or she'll sue you right then. Okay? MAYOR VORESS: Shall we ask them to come back in and see what they have to say? MR. AUGENSTEIN: We still haven't decided what our cap is going to be. MS. MARIANO: I thought they were going to come back with the offer. MR. AUGENSTEIN: We should have a counter-offer in case -- MS. MARIANO: If they come in with a number I think -- MR. RAND: What about the height? I think we ought to tell them that that's unacceptable. Right? The eighteen stories. VICE MAYOR PAUL: See what they say MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 249 MR. AUGENSTEIN: Should we let them in? Are you going to go get them? MAYOR VORESS: I'll get them. (A brief recess is taken.) MAYOR VORESS: I guess we need to have the record show that the RTC people have rejoined us. And, Jay, I guess maybe it would be appropriate for asking you to give us some reaction to the things we've said. Is that fair enough? MR. HAMBRIC: Yeah, I think on some of the language issues we can probably take care of as we went through the agreement. I was thinking when I was talking to Chris and Judith, in similar situations when you're dealing with a debtor or property or someone buying, a lot of times it proves beneficial to say, counsel, if you'll leave and let the business people sit here, we'll make the agreement and then we'll tell you what we want written up. That may prove to be beneficial here. I'm not sure if counsel is interested in doing that. But in my life, past life, I have found sometimes that works MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 250 well. In Judith's and Rusty's defense we pay lawyers to sometimes argue over words and sometimes we get spirited negotiations tied up over what the word means, but I think we're pretty close on some of the issues that came up in regard to language. The one issue which is a philosophical issue that I think Councilman Augenstein and I mentioned outside was there seems -- I don't think we have an adversarial relationship, but sometimes it seems we have an adversarial relationship in regard to trust at the RTC and trust that the town is going to do what we both promise to do. Now, I think that's easily correctible with short time frames, short being again reasonable for the town and for the RTC on payment of funds so if we're looking at something that's -- I'll look at my balance sheet and call it short-term assets or short- term obligations compared to long-term, I think that makes it easier for us to give up a position if we're concerned about the town's not doing what it agrees to do at some date in the future. MAYOR VORESS: Okay. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 251 MR. EYPEL: I'm sorry. Would you repeat that last part of your statement, Jay? You are concerned? MR. HAMBRIC: No, I'm not concerned. I think we can solve it -- I think there's -- when you look at the agreement, the RTC, rightfully so, is trying to position ourselves for the event of a default by the town. I think at several times we started drafting this agreement we were talking about sliding scales, staying involved with the sale of the closing of the property and some other issues. I think if we can narrow down the time frame and agree that payment of funds will be made over some period of time. MR. EYPEL: Okay. MR. HAMBRIC: I don't know if that's ninety days or six months, but if we get into a position where it's cashed out over that period of time, I think we'll alleviate some of those concerns. And I think I can minimize my additional risk when I sell the property by not offering financing. I think that lowers the value of my property, but I think I can make a business argument that there's some additional MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 252 risk in staying in bed with the developer over the next ten years and maybe I don't want to be in the lending business. Maybe Barnett Bank needs to do that instead of the RTC. So I think I can structure part of my transaction to alleviate some of my concerns if we can shorten up -- or not shorten up but get to a time frame that we can look at and say makes sense. And the other thing is, too, I mean maybe the first paragraph of this settlement agreement ought to say it's the intention of the the Town of Highland Beach and the RTC to settle this matter. I think when you read this I don't know if we ever say -- MS. THOMSEN: Amicably resolve. MR. RAND: It does say that. MR. HAMBRIC: So -- MR. RAND: That's in the first paragraph. MR. HAMBRIC: Amicably resolve sounds like a lawyer wrote it. MR. YATES: We restate that it's our intention of moving it into the private sector as expeditiously as possible. MR. HAMBRIC: We're both committed MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 253 to the settlement of this, the sale and ultimate development of the property. I think that gives the future buyer some confidence that the town wants it developed. I've always -- the Mayor and I's conversation it's always been the town wants to develop its revenue producing, it would like to get it built and increase revenues. MAYOR VORESS: Do I understand you to say, Jay, that if we could get a number agreed and time frames under which we might pay that number, some of these other issues like this issue that Judith brings up relative to having us exposed for a variety of numbers could be more amicably resolved? MR. HAMBRIC: Right. I think if we can -- if this group can agree to the business terms, then I think we can solve the language problems. And I think we may have been going at it backwards through no fault of our own in just trying to solve the legal issues as opposed to the business terms. MR. ROBERTS: Let me understand, you know, we've talked about a couple of concepts, one being what are the parameters. Is it an alternative RPUD or just the parameters. Okay? MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 254 And I think that issue -- but it seems to me that the issue that you're addressing here is that you want some security, for lack of a better term. And is it my understanding that what you're saying is that if we agree to some figure and just for hypothetical say your figure of five and a half million dollars and you could be assured that you're going to get paid that in ninety days, that then as a security for the ten-year development parameters, you could live with what we addressed or what we said? MR. HAMBRIC: Yeah, I think there's -- yeah, it makes it much easier for me to talk about -- I mean on the development parameters, you know, it may be ten years or maybe we can quantify that the developer after we sell it he has six months to start something. It's really only ten years and six months, we can quantify that, but, again, I think the issue is solving the business terms. On the RPUD there's a lot of money spent developing that. I don't know if that's an investment or an expense at this point, but I don't know if you've looked at it. You may look at it and say this helps us as well as helps the RTC. I don't think we've done MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 255 that yet. MAYOR VORESS: Jay, let's see if we can get into this. That might be helpful. Let's see if we can talk about money and what our ability to pay is. I'd like to ask Commissioner Rand to address that. MR. RAND: Jay, for the sake of perspective, I'd like you to understand what our problem is with respect to the payment of money. Okay? We cannot come up with more than two and a half million dollars. Okay? For the simple reason that to do so would require a referendum unless it was ordered by the court. That's why the proposal that we sent to you was predicated on this settlement being made and the payment of the funds being made only upon the court order being granted. That gives us the flexibility to be able to pay you this amount of money without having to go to referendum and in violation of state statutes and local town ordinances. That's the reason why we've asked for that rather than upon the signing of the agreement. It is a physical impossibility for us to give you more than two and a half million dollars at the signing of this agreement. We MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 256 can't even give you two and a half million dollars at the signing of the agreement. The whole idea was that we would come to a meeting of the minds as far as the figure is concerned. You had indicated earlier that you were prepared to finance this transaction. Perhaps that's the ideal solution. We would then ask you to consider whether the figure that we agreed upon -- you lend us the money, that becomes part of this agreement, you give us six months to prepare this obligation in whole or in part without any penalty, and that would then give us the opportunity to pay you the funds partly out of reserves, partly out of the insurance company settlement, and then we would look for means to refinance or to finance, I should say, the balance owing to you depending on what the final figure is. That eliminates a lot of problems for US. But the loan from you to us can only take place when it is approved -- when this stipulation, this settlement stipulation is approved by the court, so that gives you the protection of this agreement only being in force after the court approves, and if the court approves, only then would you lend us the money, MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 257 in which case you get your money up front. We have an agreement that's in force. So the rest of the verbiage or phraseology that we have here would be less onerous to you than it would be under other circumstances. You understand the point I'm trying to make? We have a problem as far as coming up with the money in as expeditious a fashion as possible. We want to pay you as soon as possible and get out of this thing once and for all. We don't want to go on yearly installments or anything like that. That we should be able to finance ourselves through an underwriter or whatever it may be. MR. HAMBRIC: Commissioner, to make sure I understand, we agree to adopt that we file it with the court. The court then says we've accepted it and at that point you have more flexibility than you have today. MR. RAND: That's correct. MAYOR VORESS: We could finance a bond as an example without doing a referendum. MR. RAND: So we then go to Shearson Lehman or Merrill Lynch and say we need to borrow X amount of dollars for such period of time, are MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 258 you prepared to accommodate us. Okay? And we don't see any difficulty considering our financial structure in being able to borrow the money. We can't come up with more than two and a half million dollars from our own resources. That's just a physical impossibility. And we need to avoid any problems from a personal standpoint of us acting as commissioners here doing something that which would be in violation of state statutes or local ordinances, and that's the reason why we are insistent on the phraseology in this document indicating that this settlement can only become valid only after it is ordered by the court to do so. That's the reason why we want it, no other reason. MR. HAMBRIC: What is ordered by the court? I guess I'm going to have to say flipping it back to the lawyers, what's ordered by the court? Is that acceptance of our petition? MR. RAND: Well, there is a document here -- MR. ROBERTS: Judgment entered. MS. THOMSEN: The only way of getting on with this because this has been on the table from the beginning in terms of you have an MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 259 agreement at that point in time and the only thing you can get is whatever amount of money you've agreed to. The only other way you can do it is, and I think that there are some provisions in Rusty's draft speaking to if we don't get paid when we're supposed to what kind of additional moneys you can get. And you can clearly -- the way the provision that I saw looked at it is it would be advantageous to the town monetarily not to live up to the agreement because the most they would ever pay would be $60,000 a year even if they owed you five million -- MR. HAMBRIC: Okay. MS. THOMSEN: -- under Rusty's provision. You can have an interest provision, we all agree that we want to do it quickly. It can kick in, you know, if you need the ninety days or whatever, but then it has to be an amount of money where there really is an incentive to get paid if in fact it hasn't happened. MR. HAMBRIC: But to make sure I'm clear, at the point we filed this document with the appellate court, then that frees you up to go do what you need to do. MAYOR VORESS: What it does, Jay, is MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 260 if we have a court order, then we can go to a financial institution and dedicate the taxing authority of the town without going to a referendum. MR. HAMBRIC: Okay. MAYOR VORESS: If the court doesn't tell us to do it, then we have to have a referendum. That's a long time. MR. HAMBRIC: And we don't see any risk that the court is not going to accept this document because it's in their best behalf? MAYOR VORESS: If both parties want it settled the court is going to agree to it. MR. RAND: But, Jay, if the court doesn't accept it, then there's no deal. MR. HAMBRIC: Right. Okay. MR. RAND: We're back to square one again, so that eliminates your worries about our being able to come up with the money or living up to the agreement because we're going to give you the money up front based on the loan you give us, and then we will seek means by which we will repay you and we would like a six months hiatus period in order to do this. We feel that's adequate time in order to be be able to settle MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 261 it. We hope to be able to do it in less time. And we would like to have the flexibility of the six-month period because we're coming in pretty soon to discussing the next fiscal year budget, and that gives us time to make the necessary preparations in the forthcoming budget. MR. ROBERTS: Let me tell you, and I heard you say this, there was certainly no intention on our part, on my part in my draft that this liquidated damages paragraph to any repayment of money. Okay? Now, I'm not saying that you couldn't construe it that way. But just so you're wrong -- there was never any intent on my part nor I think I can speak for all the people assembled here that they were looking for a way to get out of paying whatever they agreed to pay. MR. HAMBRIC: I understand. MR. ROBERTS: And to the extent it indicates that, we would be happy to elicit any changes to evidence that intention. That particular provision was indicated for the particular remedy of your developer comes in and says here's my application and building official Smith, whoever it is, five years down the road MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 262 says, you know, sayonara, you didn't dot your T's or whatever like that, and, you know, there's no relief, so you can go to the court and the town will know that for each day that that's improperly denied, I'm paying you a thousand dollars. MR. HAMBRIC: Okay. MR. ROBERTS: And the reason why, you know, that's sixty days right there which to me envisions an appropriate amount of time to get in front of the magistrate and for the magistrate to order you, town, do it or you're held in contempt. MR. HAMBRIC: Okay. MR. ROBERTS: Okay? I mean that's the intention of that. MS. THOMSEN: Unfortunately because nothing else pertains specifically to the payment provisions that would govern it as well which you could then have the most you could collect in the event of a breach of non-payment would be the 60,000 a year which is not where you'd want to be. MR. HAMBRIC: I'd like to again get back to the business terms. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 263 MAYOR VORESS: Go ahead. MR. HAMBRIC: You need six months. I think six months is reasonable. MR. RAND: All right. MR. HAMBRIC: I'm assuming if we finance this, there is some money for a down payment, good faith deposit. MR. RAND: Within the time frame that we've indicated in this agreement, yeah, we can come up with part of the money from the insurance which could take a few days and it may take up to sixty or ninety days for the additional million and a half. MAYOR VORESS: Like a million right off the bat, a million and a half in a short period of time and the rest of it from financing. MR. RAND: Jay, I can't conceive of this lasting longer than ninety days, but we would like to have the flexibility of six months. MR. HAMBRIC: And again, Commissioner, while I'm not an expert at municipal finance, you all do have a pretty strong balance sheet, you do a pretty good job. I mean fortunately you've done something, everybody sitting here has done something very MUDRICI£, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 264 well because you have -- like I said, I'll buy your bonds before I'll buy City of Philadelphia, New York and everybody else. I think you've done a good job. MR. AUGENSTEIN: We'll give you the opportunity. MR. HAMBRIC: Call me and let me know. Okay. So the question I guess we're down to now is the number. MR. RAND: Right. MR. HAMBRIC: Now, we started this I think originally, Mayor, at about twelve million, ten, seven, and I think we ended up at five and a half the last time we had one of our informal meetings based on the idea that we were getting out in a short period of time, that we weren't tied into any long term, sell the property and the ultimate value of the property. And, guys, I think that's a very good number I can live with. I think it's on the one side of the table there's some money left on the table and the other is I think it's something you could live with, we can all live with and say we've made a good deal. Ultimately I've told the Mayor all of us will be criticized down the road, but we're all big boys MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 265 and girls. And if the appellate court comes back and says the town is successful, your constituency is going to say what did you do paying five and a half million dollars. At the same time if it comes back and the RTC's position is upheld, someone is going to say what are you doing taking five and a half million dollars on a potential twenty million dollar settlement. So I think it's in our all best interests to go ahead and settle it and get it out of the way. And I think the five and a half is a very good number. MAYOR VORESS: I guess the thing we want to explore with you, Jay, is in light of the settlement which has biased our thinking, too, is as you came up with those numbers putting probabilities is the way you got that number at Valley Forge, is there any way you could put some numbers in your probability and come up with a number different than that? MR. HAMBRIC: I'll tell you I can't -- one of the things as I met with our lawyers before the appellate -- I guess everyone was there, we were all there, I mean I only need two votes or three votes. MAYOR VORESS: I understand. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 266 MR. HAMBRIC: I mean I've got two so it's hard for me to my argue my probability of risk is now lower because if there's nine, ten sitting justices I only need two more on my side so it makes it harder to put any higher risk factor on the present value analysis. MAYOR VORESS: Well, you had two. MR. HAMBRIC: I had two so I need three, I guess. MAYOR VORESS: You need three. And with a tie you win. MR. HAMBRIC: And a tie I win and you need five and I've already doubled -- I talked to John Douglas and yourself, Mr. Mayor, and the first time I doubled my discount rate to start with because I wasn't taking into account the judgment was earning interest while we were doing all these things so -- MR. ROBERTS: I guess we probably need to meet and discuss it if your counter is five and a half million. MR. HAMBRIC: Sure. MAYOR VORESS: I assume you can find your way. MR. HAMBRIC: Yes, we've been here MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 267 before. (Whereupon the RTC representatives leave the hearing room.) MR. EYPEL: Mayor, I want to ask a question if I may. I'm not sure I understood. We're now resolving the monetary issue. What is their position regarding the remedies? MAYOR VORESS: What I understood them to say, and everybody was listening to this discussion, was that if we can agree upon a number without saying what that number is, they're concerned about opening the door to get back to the eighteen -- they haven't got eighteen to twenty million dollars in here, is less severe and that Jay even in spite of what his law counsel was, I read him to say he would be inclined to agree with what Rusty said. Is that with the thousand and -- MR. ROBERTS: In a general sense, but I didn't get that. MS. MARIANO: I didn't get that either. I thought they were talking about parameters and the RPUD. I don't think they got to the remedy. I don't think they addressed that. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 268 MAYOR VORESS: I'm just speaking of the remedy here. MS. MARIANO: I don't think they did either. MR. ROBERTS: I never heard them say I agree if you'll pay me five million dollars I'll agree to your provisions. MAYOR VORESS: He didn't say that. He said he thought this piece could be resolved. MR. ROBERTS: As I said, in a general sense I think he, you know, he's saying -- I read him to say get rid of the lawyers, let's talk business. Well, business is just money, forgetting remedies. If we can come to an agreement on the money, then we'll let the lawyers talk about the remedies. That's what I heard. MAYOR VORESS: I'm not willing to do that obviously. VICE MAYOR PAUL: I'm not willing to commit myself to a dollar amount with all that other stuff hanging fire. I mean remember we tried this settlement thing with Rosario whatever his name was. All the lawyers went out of the room. We had this marvelous, marvelous MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 269 agreement. MR. EYPEL: Yes. VICE MAYOR PAUL: And when we got the documents back that had been prepared for signature it was -- MS. MARIANO: Seven pages of remedies. MAYOR VORESS: What did you read, Dave? You were listening. What was your reading of that? MR. AUGENSTEIN: I frankly believe he's firm in what he wants, and yet I don't feel we should give it to him. MAYOR VORESS: John, what did you feel? MR. RAND: Well, I don't think that's the final figure. I can't see why he would come up with a lower figure. I think that's up to us to counter propose. But I got the impression from the remarks that he made, I construed his remarks to mean that if we could agree on the figure, the legal phraseology is of secondary importance, not they they would agree to everything we said, but I don't think it would be that much of a problem in resolving our MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 270 differences as far as the legal implications are concerned. That's the impression I got, but obviously whatever figure we counter propose would be on condition that we also agree to the terms and conditions of the settlement. That goes without saying. It's not that we agreed to give them X amount of dollars and then agreed to what they want here as far as the remedies are concerned. No, on the contrary. It would be we'll give you the figure, borrow from you as suggested, but we would insist on the legal phraseology being as we have indicated here because I think we've addressed your concerns by virtue of this financing route. MR. EYPEL: I have two things, John. I understand what you're saying. I have a problem with two things here. One, I put myself in their position. I tried to play the other side, and if I were sitting over there, I would think that the dollar settlement would be secondary to the language of this document which is supposed to protect the almighty taxpayers that he represents himself to be here tonight speaking for. And I'm very sorry, but I sense that for some reason this drop in the bucket, so MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 271 to speak, the million, million and a half extra dollars that we would be giving them he is willing to compromise Judith's whole plan, at least that's the way I understand it, for the money which is practically nothing to the federal government. It's a lot to us. It's a year's budget to us, one solid year of this town's complete budget. Why is he so willing to give up his almighty document here? MR. RAND: He didn't say he'd give up. We're not proposing that he do that. MR. EYPEL: What I would like to propose, what I would like to suggest is let's come to some sort of a package deal with him. I am not willing to commit to the money first and then pound out this. I think we need to come up with an all encompassing -- MR. RAND: That's what I'm suggesting. MR. EYPEL: We have one or two major issues. MR. AUGENSTEIN: He said the language could be taken care of. I'm sure he said that. I heard him. MAYOR VORESS: That's what I heard MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 272 him say. MR. RAND: It would be -- the settlement would be contingent upon a mutual acceptance of the phraseology in this settlement agreement. It is not that we're giving up our position. We object to the height, we object to the remedies and so forth. That position is not changing. I think they might change, and that's the impression that I got from him. If we agreed to a figure and they buy it, then I think the legal aspects or the wording in this document then has to be resolved between the lawyers. That's the impression that I got. But that doesn't mean that we're giving up our stance here as far as a remedy, as far as the height is concerned, the density and so forth. We're not giving up any of that. We're not suggesting giving up any of that. We're talking about a figure. MAYOR VORESS: What do you say, Rusty? MR. ROBERTS: You know, the more I reflect on it, it seemed to me what he's saying is because he made the statement that, you know, I'll restructure my deal but I'll be out of it MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 273 which I think is what Arthur is saying is, you know, here's the deal, you write it however you want to, but in return for that you pay me five and a half million dollars. That's my bottom line. Because you asked him, Arlin, is there any other risk or down side and he goes no. And I think what he's saying to you if you want to write it your way, okay, pay me five and a half million. That's what his offer is. MR. RAND: Might be. MAYOR VORESS: Could be. MS. MARIANO: Why don't we ask him that. I think we ought to find out the remedies before we say yes. Ask him about that. MR. ROBERTS: Well, I think that's where he's headed. I don't think he said that yet. That's where he's headed. And to think that -- I don't think at this stage they're coming down off the figure because that's the point I've made is that they made the five and a half million dollar figure in January. It has remained constant since then. We've offered them money, they came back early this evening and nothing on money, I asked them what's your figure, are you going to counter, he came back, MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 274 oh, that's the lowest I can go. I mean that's what I'm hearing. That's my bottom dollar, five and a half million dollars, and I think it's based upon his feeling that you got the money, and, you know, for whatever reason you people just don't want to pony up with it. MAYOR VORESS: I think he feels the town can afford to pay it. I think that's absolutely right. MR. ROBERTS: Absolutely. He thinks that you can afford five and a half million and I think you probably can. But it's really whether you want to pay it or not. VICE MAYOR PAUL: When we had the meeting where the public was invited and we shared with them partly where we were and that five and a half million figure was made public at that point, I believe. MAYOR VORESS: Yes. VICE MAYOR PAUL: And there was not one person that said to me I think that's great, go and do it. The people that talked to me said you're not going to stop there, are you? You're going to go on and -- I mean that's just a starting point, isn't it? MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 275 MR. RAND: No, Bill, I think there were two people -- MAYOR VORESS: That's wrong. MR. RAND: I think there were two people because we talked about it -- we mentioned the fact -- VICE MAYOR PAUL: John, I said the people that talked to me afterwards about the meeting. MR. RAND: Oh, okay. Because at the meeting we mentioned the fact that they had asked for five and a half million dollars and I think the judge and Neil Bert mentioned the fact that a settlement is worth it any day of the week and twice on Sundays, so I know we did say it might not be five million, it might be less, and if we can negotiate it, so much the better, but there was no objection to the five million dollar settlement. On the contrary, I got the impression that Bill Coleman or anybody else was most supportive of our being able to get rid of a potential twenty million dollar liability for five million dollars. MS. MARIANO: I think Mr. Coleman on the record said though because I've talked to him MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 276 since then that certainly that doesn't mean that's what you're going to give them, and I think the other issue was that the money was one thing, but if you remember the one gentleman thought that we were getting the land for five and a half million dollars. And the other thing you have to consider is they thought that that would get rid of it, but a lot of the residents, as you can tell by what went on out there, when they realized that it was the money plus they were going to get to build everything, the buildings were upsetting to them, too. You mean they're still going to get to do that, you know, even if that -- MR. RAND: Phil was concerned about the height. I remember that. MS. MARIANO: He was very concerned. MR. RAND: About the sixteen opportunity. We're gambling here. They're gambling on whether or not they're going to collect anything, so they figure we were better off coming away with something and they figure five million dollars is worth the risk. We're gambling that we're better off paying them, let's MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 277 say, five million dollars than run the risk of paying twenty million dollars. So we both have similar motives here and we're both gambling. MS. MARIANO: That's right. As long as we know that that's the ultimate risk. That's what we're saying with regard to remedies. Whatever the risk is, whatever you all decide that needs to be the end of it and they can go on to get more money, and that's the issue. That's the remedy issue. MAYOR VORESS: Well, one of the characteristics of a settlement of this nature is neither side are happy about it. Remember I've told you that before. And that's one of the characteristics. Nobody's happy about paying that kind of money. I can tell you that right now. MR. AUGENSTEIN: It's not a question of being happy or not happy. I think it's going to be extremely difficult for us to pay it. MR. RAND: I don't agree with that. MAYOR VORESS: No. MR. AUGENSTEIN: Five and a half? MAYOR VORESS: Yes. MR. RAND: I don't agree with you. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 278 You're talking then of borrowing three million dollars instead of a million and a half. MR. AUGENSTEIN: Right. MR. RAND: The interest factor is still covered by our present budget. MR. AUGENSTEIN: How are you going to repay the rest? MR. RAND: I just told you we don't pay anything, Dave. We wait. You have a ten-year financing vehicle. Okay? A total of five years. No principal amortization. And in five years time we address it. We don't have to prepay the obligation at that time or call it in. We wait and see what we have in the town, what our assessed valuation base is, and then determine whether or not we want to call the bond and then refinance it for a long period or let it run the ten years. MR. ROBERTS: It's like the federal government. MAYOR VORESS: at six and a half percent. MR. AUGENSTEIN: things are available? That's 195,000 a year Are you sure those MR. RAND: Well, you've got 367,000 MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 279 that you appropriated that certainly is available, less whatever we paid thus far so I'd say it's certainly available. MR. AUGENSTEIN: That's a long way off from three million. MR. RAND: What? MR. AUGENSTEIN: That's a long way off from three million. MR. RAND: No, six percent on three million is $180,000 a year. And what I'm suggesting is that it shouldn't be our burden alone to pay for this thing. Okay? We are delaying the repayment of this obligation in the years down the road just like the federal government does in covering its deficit borrowing from Social Security. The Social Security is not bankrupt. Social Security is a fantastic financial vehicle and solvent and has no problem paying off its obligations to all its contributors, but it's the fact that the federal government has borrowed from the Social Security Administration that has presented the problem for Social Security. And in this case what I'm saying is that if you wait the five years, this property is going to be built. I can't imagine MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 a this -- somebody buying this property and leaving it lie vacant for five years. I find that very difficult to believe. MS. MARIANO: Except I talked to Mr. Coleman this morning just to give you another example. I don't know how long -- Arthur, you live across the street. The Beach Walk west side has been settled for that long, has been put up for auction, they did not get one bid and that's an unencumbered piece of property with no problems and with greater zoning relief than other parcels in town. That has been settled for a long time. There was not one bid on that property. And that doesn't have some of the problems this had. So I'm not sure that we can say that we know that in five years it's going to be built. I wouldn't want to base it on that. I still think we have -- we still can do those things you're talking about, but I don't know that we should base it on an expectation that it's going to be built. MR. RAND: So maybe not five years, then seven years. In other words, it's callable after five years, but that doesn't mean we have to call it in. You can wait till the sixth year, MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 281 you can wait till the seventh year, you can wait till the eighth year and then view the situation and see where we stand as far as our tax base is concerned to see whether or not we want to finance the obligation anew and then start amortizing over a period of twenty-five years which makes it less onerous for the present residents and for future residents in the town. I mean why should we have to absorb the burden of this thing? First of all, none of us had anything to do with it in the first place so we're being asked to assume the burden of this obligation, so why shouldn't we ask the people who live in this piece of property and other future residents who come to town to also assume the burden? Why should it be just us? VICE MAYOR PAUL: At this point I can't find it in my heart to go any higher than 3.5. MAYOR VORESS: $367,000 at six and a half percent interest will finance 5.7 million dollars. MR. EYPEL: What if we offered -- what if we offered to split it with them? MR. RAND: That's what I suggest, MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 282 split the difference. MR. EYPEL: Split the difference with them. I think that's a reasonable deal. MR. AUGENSTEIN: Two five to five five? MR. RAND: Two five to four. In other words, the difference is three million. want two five, they want five five. The difference is three million. Half of three million is a million and a half. MR. AUGENSTEIN: Four and a half million? MR. RAND: No, four million. MR. AUGENSTEIN: The total is four million. We MR. EYPEL: I don't think -- my problem with this whole thing is that a million and a half dollars means a great deal to us, and to them it means practically nothing. It's not even a blink. MR. RAND: No, it may not mean anything to them as far as that part is concerned, but it does mean something to them to reach a settlement with us so they can sell this piece of property and get ten million or twelve MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 283 million. MR. EYPEL: Why would they be unwilling to cut the town a little slack? MR. RAND: That's what I started to say I would counter four million and point out to them we've made considerable concessions here. First of all, the court ordered us to give you five years to build this property, we're giving you ten years, so that's worth something, too. Okay? MR. EYPEL: Sure. MR. RAND: We made concessions. We have agreed to apply the 1985 fees and so forth. I mean we've made a lot of concessions. MR. EYPEL: A lot of zoning concessions. MR. RAND: The zoning concessions. Okay? We gave them 427 units. Okay? We've given them sixteen stories which we weren't happy about doing in the first place. Okay? Now, their investment is fourteen million dollars, as I understand it. They've invested in this property. MAYOR VORESS: They say it's eighteen. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 284 MR. RAND: So it's eighteen. Okay? So they're going to get four million from us, certainly the property they say in their example to us that they could get nineteen for it. So they're coming out whole on this thing. What the hell is the problem? And besides that they talk about discounting this obligation. I mean I know of many cases in settling of failed banks that they've given like ten cents on a dollar, so why the hell should this be any different? And we're offering now on twenty million, we're offering them twenty percent. MS. MARIANO: Because their position is because they have a judgment. MR. AUGENSTEIN: Exactly. MR. RAND: They don't have a judgment. There is no judgment. MS. MARIANO: I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm saying that's what their position is. And the other thing based on if you want to offer them or you want to come to an agreement whether it's five five or whether it's four is based on Rusty's language with regard to remedies. MR. RAND: Well, I've said that. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 285 MAYOR VORESS: I think we have to have Rusty's language. I don't think there's any doubt about that. MR. RAND: We want Rusty's language. I think there has to be an element of trust involved here. We've satisfied your requirements as far as the money is concerned by borrowing it from you, but we don't think that our terms as proposed in Rusty's draft is onerous. We don't see where you are not getting adequate protection for the purpose or objective that you have in mind. But it's something that we can live with and we fail to see why this should be objectionable on your part and let it go at that. But I don't think that you're going to -- I don't know if they'll accept four million, but I think it's a reasonable approach to say, well, let's split the difference. MAYOR VORESS: Well, let's talk about what we're going to do. You want to call them back in and say four million? MR. RAND: We have to agree amongst ourselves. MAYOR VORESS: Call them back in and say four million. If they say no, then we'll MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 have another conference. Is that what you're proposing? MR. AUGENSTEIN: If they say no? MAYOR VORESS: Yes. MR. AUGENSTEIN: Then what else are we going to talk about? MS. MARIANO: The remedies. I think we really need to straighten out -- I mean -- MAYOR VORESS: Excuse me. If we say four million dollars and the language that Rusty has put in. MR. RAND: That's what we say. MAYOR VORESS: That's what we say. MR. ROBERTS: Four million and my agreement as drafted. MAYOR VORESS: Right. Then if they say no, what do we do, have another meeting? VICE MAYOR PAUL: At another time. I think people are wearing out and -- MAYOR VORESS: Well, they'll be going home. I mean we want to ask them to come back the next day? MS. MARIANO: Your agreement as a whole as drafted. Is that what you're saying. MR. ROBERTS: Without any changes. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MAYOR VORESS: What do we want to tell them? If we say no, we can't accept that, do we ask them to come back at some other time? I'm trying to understand. MR. AUGENSTEIN: By asking them to come back is acquiescing to what they want because if you ask them to come back that's telling them we're going to go up. MAYOR VORESS: So we say okay, that's it? Is that what we're saying as a commission? I'm trying to understand what happens. MR. AUGENSTEIN: I don't know. What do you think, John? MR. RAND: Well, I'm only saying this. God forbid if they ever get a judgment for twenty million bucks and the town figures out we could settle for five million, you'll have a lot of explaining to do. MR. AUGENSTEIN: You have a lot of explaining to do if the judgment comes our way. MR. RAND: If it does. MR. AUGENSTEIN: It's a no win situation for us. MR. RAND: I'd rather pay four MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 million than five and a half million, but I wouldn't want to put it to them on the basis that's take it or leave it. MAYOR VORESS: I feel the same way. I would like to settle rather than having it go to the court. MR. RAND: I don't think we ought to put it that it's four million, gentlemen, or forget it, we have no deal. MR. EYPEL: Excuse me, gentlemen, but this is kind of like a poker game here. MR. RAND: That's what it is. MR. EYPEL: You either convince them to the point that they accept it that your offer of four million dollars is your offer. If there is even a breath of hope that they think they can get more, I can assure you we'll be here until midnight until we acquiesce and concede to their request. I think what I would like to propose is a little bit of dialogue with them. I would like to have an opportunity to explain to them what that million and a half dollars means to us, not that they care. I'm sure they don't. MR. AUGENSTEIN: They don't. MAYOR VORESS: They don't. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. RAND: They don't give a damn about our problems. MS. MARIANO: However, you also have to consider however this turns out in the end, these proceedings and everything else will be made available to the public, so whatever turns out, whether it's good, bad or indifferent, these proceedings will -- MAYOR VORESS: Absolutely. MS. MARIANO: -- explain and educate the public as to either why you did it or why you did not do it or what you were being asked to give up. If they say why didn't you settle for 5.5, well, if they read the record they see that you are giving up your rights and they could have gone back and got twenty. This is something that would have been made public. MR. RAND: That's a powerful argument. MS. MARIANO: So that is one of the reasons why these things are made public so that later on, whatever the outcome is, the public has a right to the thought process as to how you have arrived at what you arrive at. MAYOR VORESS: Absolutely. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 290 MR. RAND: Well, I think if we agree we ought to point out to them that the court only gave you five years -- made us conform to this judgment over a period of five years. We agreed to give you ten in accordance with your request. You wanted a sixteen -story building, we agreed to give you a sixteen -story building. That was never discussed before and so forth. So certainly that has some value. In the interest of trying to resolve this problem, we would like to suggest that we split the difference, that is we give you the four million dollars borrowing it from you as proposed, but on the condition that the settlement stipulation be on the proposed form that Mr. Roberts has given except for those sentences that he's agreed to as far as modification is concerned. And then say -- see what they say. If they say, well, then there's no deal, we'll say fine, thank you for coming. MR. ROBERTS: I would suggest that you go first to three and a half million and give yourself the leeway of another half million to close the deal. MR. RAND: Well, how do you feel about that, gentlemen? MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 291 MAYOR VORESS: Well, I'll tell you I personally don't want them to walk off from here. If they walk off from here, then what are we going to do, initiate conversations later on some time, meanwhile the court is moving right along? MR. RAND: You can always go back next month and say we'll give you the five million. MR. EYPEL: Yeah, but then you give them the opportunity -- MR. RAND: To ask for six. MR. EYPEL: You know, I can't -- I tend to agree with Arlin. I would like to structure something. MAYOR VORESS: Strike a number. MR. EYPEL: Yes, strike a number. Let's discuss for a moment what we're talking about as far as imposing burden on our townspeople, our town folk. Is our effort to, let's say, negotiate down, is it worth the risk that we must face if they do walk away from here tonight with no deal? I myself would feel much more comfortable if we had the remedy issue one hundred percent solved in our advantage. I do MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 292 not want to be exposed to twenty million dollars if somebody blinks wrong on their own time. I am not interested in being exposed to that kind of liability, and, quite frankly, gentlemen, I would rather pay a little more money up front to be relieved of that and have it over once and for all. MR. RAND: What are you saying? MR. EYPEL: How much are you prepared to pay? MR. RAND: Would you be willing to pay 5.5 million? What are you saying? MR. EYPEL: I'm saying that we're down to the nubs is where we are. We're down to the nitty-gritty here, and whatever we say we have to say it with conviction and we must mean it. MR. RAND: Of course, but that doesn't mean that we're closing the door. We're counter proposing four million dollars. That doesn't mean that that's our final figure. We're not saying take it or leave it, gentlemen. MR. EYPEL: You can always go up. You can't go down. MR. RAND: Exactly. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 293 MR. EYPEL: You can always go up. MR. RAND: I can't see where they'd come in and tell you they'd take four. They said 5.5. We said two and a half million. So we suggest we split the difference. All they can say is no. And we'll say fine, and in that case we'll have to give this further consideration but we can't do that tonight. MS. MARIANO: Maybe we can say that we need to wait on our -- on Mr. Schoech who is out of town and unable to be here and is our municipal finance expert that needs to come in. MR. RAND: But that it has to be -- that has to be that this document be as drafted by Mr. Roberts. We're not prepared to accept other than the modification that you've agreed to, Rusty. I think you ought to make that point, but I'm not suggesting by any manner, shape or form that we close the door and say take it or leave it and we walk away. I'm not saying that. MR. EYPEL: But, you see, it's so delicate, John. How you say that is, you know, we're dealing with people who do this for a living. MR. RAND: That's right. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 294 MR. EYPEL: And how you phrase it and how you say it, they're going to be watching body language. They're going to be watching. They're going to be listening carefully, and, you know, if you leave the slightest opening of doubt in their mind that you will go higher but that this is not your last offer, believe me, they're going to capitalize on it. MR. RAND: So again it's a question of how you present it. We would like to suggest that you consider a cash figure of four million dollars which represents the difference between our figure and what you're suggesting, but also contingent upon the settlement stipulation wording be as Mr. Roberts has proposed with the exception that he's agreed upon. How does that strike you? Now, if they say that's ridiculous, it's out of the question, we'll say we're sorry, fine, then we'll have to consider it and we'll come back to you. That's all. We're not closing the door. MR. EYPEL: What do you think, Mayor? MAYOR VORESS: Well, I'm going to weigh in at five and a half million dollars MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 295 because I would like to see us -- I don't want to take the chance of them walking away and not coming back. They really -- if they don't settle this case, it really is nothing out of their hide. It's just one deal they didn't get done. It's a great deal to the residents of the Town of Highland Beach and people that I have talked to, a little different than Bill, feel that we ought to go ahead and if we can get out for five and a half million dollars, which is what, fifteen, twenty cents on a buck, that's a pretty good deal assuming that we get what Rusty has got here. MR. EYPEL: In other words -- MAYOR VORESS: So my number is five and a half if we have to make it. VICE MAYOR PAUL: We're not even going to go for the four to start with? MR. RAND: Why don't we start with four and again present it to them in such a fashion that we would like them to consider this counter proposal. And if they say no, then we'll say, okay, will you excuse us and let us talk about it some more. MAYOR VORESS: I have no problem with us saying that. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 296 MR. RAND: Say that then. MAYOR VORESS: But when you say, well, then they can leave and we'll talk about something later -- MR. RAND: Then say we would like to propose. MR. EYPEL: There is a possibility that they will agree, Arlin. MAYOR VORESS: I don't have any problem with that. The thing I don't want to say is four is our last offer tonight. MR. RAND: Fine. If they say no, four is unacceptable, we say, well, are you willing to make any consideration. Okay? MR. ROBERTS: I thought Arlin already asked that question and, quite frankly, it seemed to me -- MAYOR VORESS: That the answer was Eff-exem, MR. ROBERTS: -- the answer was no. MR. RAND: So if they say no to the four million, then say, well, would you allow us then to deliberate. MR. ROBERTS: Well, let me just put my input. I've been involved in negotiations for MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 297 about the last twenty years in lawsuits, and this is kind of how far can I push you sort of thing. It seemed to me that when we prepared this document up and sent it up there, the comment that the Mayor informed us was that they're going to laugh in your face and say nothing. And I suppose that that was based upon what they told you, that, you know, if you come back with anything less, I'm not even going to talk to you. Well, they're here. Okay? What does that tell you? Okay. I think that they're here because they want to settle. If they wanted to settle it and not negotiate whatsoever -- MR. RAND: They wouldn't be here. MR. ROBERTS: -- they wouldn't be here. MR. RAND: That's what I said. MR. ROBERTS: They could simply have written, listen, we told you what we wanted, here it is. Okay? And I think, you know, that you go to four million, you can never go back and it won't be settled for four million. MR. EYPEL: It won't. MR. ROBERTS: It will not. MAYOR VORESS: Well, all I'm saying MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 298 is if we say four and they say no, my understanding from what John said let them go. MR. ROBERTS: I predict what you say, you'll say I go to four and this agreement. They'll go I don't know about the agreement, but I still want five and a half million. If we go up and select a jury, you get to pass and you get to select. The more you pass, the more choices you get. I mean to me in view of this you say, listen, I'm willing to go more, but if you're not willing to come down, then we're through for the night. Okay? Unless there's unanimous agreement to pay five and a half million with the Mayor, then I think you're through for the night. Okay? You can say, listen, I've come down here, I've made an offer, and I'm willing to go up on that offer, but I'm not willing at this juncture to pay five and a half million dollars. MAYOR VORESS: Right. And I think we need to hear from the other three commissioners. I don't know that we heard from you, Dave. We need to take a concerted view. VICE MAYOR PAUL: I cannot go to 5.5 tonight. MR. AUGENSTEIN: I feel the same MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 299 way. Four is max as far as I'm concerned. MR. RAND: And if they say no, we'll ask then to meet at another time to see what we can do. MR. ROBERTS: Yeah, but see the point of that, John, if his max is four million dollars that you offer them tonight, I guarantee you they will not settle if you're asking that man over there to pay more money. I can tell you from experience what is the jump between four and five and a half? It's just another jump. And they're sitting there saying, you know, I'll just wait until you people come to my number. It doesn't cost me a thing. MR. AUGENSTEIN: What are we supposed to do, tell them we don't want anything? MR. ROBERTS: Unless there's some movement on your part we're not going to move too. This is a negotiated deal. If your position is five and a half million dollars and that's it, then why did you all come down here? MR. EYPEL: That's right. I think that's a valid way to start, approach it from the -- MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 300 MR. AUGENSTEIN: Well, he didn't come to negotiate. He came to contact. MR. ROBERTS: He came down just to sign the agreement. Well, you know, tell us that. MR. AUGENSTEIN: He said he's ready to sign. MR. ROBERTS: Yeah, on his terms. MS. MARIANO: I also don't think they can walk away from the negotiation. I think we have enough clout to put extreme pressure on him to not walk away from the negotiation regardless of what is said that they'll walk away and not -- and refuse to negotiate any further. VICE MAYOR PAUL: Can we approach it instead of throwing it out to four, let them figure that out and say halfway. MR. EYPEL: Or let's ask them. I think Rusty's approach makes sense that instead of us giving them a number, say look, we are willing to move. It's a tremendous burden on us to move up. It is in my opinion very little of a burden for them to come down a little. It will mean practically nothing to them. MR. ROBERTS: You could easily say, MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 301 listen, I'm prepared to move, you know, a million, a million and a half more dollars. Does that make any difference to you or is your figure five and a half? If it is, let's go home and talk another day. MR. RAND: Well, that's what I suggested. MR. ROBERTS: No, your suggestion, John, is I want to offer them four, and the difficulty I have with that position is once you offered it, you'll never go back. MR. RAND: Where is that any different than saying you're prepared -- MR. ROBERTS: You'll never go back and you'll never settle for that. MR. RAND: What is the difference between saying we would like to counter-offer four million as opposed to saying we're prepared to go up another million and a half? I don't understand the difference. MR. ROBERTS: Well, we're prepared to go up another million, million and a half. You give yourself the flexibility. It might fall somewhere in there. I'm willing to go up. Okay. Say I'm willing to go up on it, are you MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 302 willing to come down? MR. RAND: Okay. Try that. MAYOR VORESS: I think you know their answer. MR. RAND: Suppose they say no, it's got to be 5.5 million. What is our response? MR. ROBERTS: Well, let's meet another day. MR. AUGENSTEIN: It's very late. Let's meet another day. MS. MARIANO: What if they say tomorrow, we'll be here overnight? MR. EYPEL: If they're going to come back tomorrow, we can stay tonight and fix it. VICE MAYOR PAUL: You're young. MR. ROBERTS: Let's -- MS. MARIANO: We need time to think about it. MR. ROBERTS: We were here to negotiate in good faith. You were at five and a half million, we're at two and a half million. If you're staying right there, then, you know, that's not negotiating. Let's all rethink our position. MR. RAND: Okay. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 303 VICE MAYOR PAUL: Gentlemen, you're going on a seven -hour day just from this executive session. MR. ROBERTS: They'll come back tomorrow. I mean because essentially, essentially what you're faced with right now is simply if you all get together and say I'm willing to pay five and a half million, that's all you have to do and it's a done deal. MR. RAND: I know but I'm personally prepared to go to that level only after finding out whether they're prepared to negotiate. MR. ROBERTS: Let's get them in here and ask them that. Say, here, we're willing to negotiate, but negotiating higher means you accept our deal. Is that where you're at or not? MS. MARIANO: Including specifically section ten because the last time we went through this, Rusty, you'll remember we thought we had a deal when we walked out, and the remedies came back with seven extra pages. MAYOR VORESS: I think we have to say that more money but agreement with Rusty's proposal. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 304 MR. RAND: Except as agreed upon and modified -- except as to agreed modification and see what their reaction is rather than put a take it or leave it. I'm not suggesting anything of the sort. MAYOR VORESS: I don't want take it or leave it. The circuit court is going on. And they're going on their own schedule. MR. RAND: Well, let's see what their reaction is. (A brief recess is taken.) (The RTC representatives return to the hearing room.) MR. ROBERTS: We're all assembled again. It's 9:47. Okay? 9:43. We have obviously been discussing this and I'm just asking as a spokesman, okay? It's kind of our feeling that, you know, what has been said is that you're at five and a half million dollars, and I think that, you know, there's two aspects of this, the agreement and the money. Okay? And I think what is being understood is that the agreement is not so important to you if the money is right. MR. HAMBRIC: I think there's more MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 305 flexibility in the agreement if the money is right. MR. ROBERTS: Well, here's the proposal that we have to you. The town is willing to come up with more than the two and a half million dollars offered so far, but in order to do that we want the agreement as I've drafted it, and we also want to know if five and a half million dollars is your final figure or you're willing to come down. MR. HAMBRIC: I think I said before five and a half million dollars is the lowest number I can justify. MR. ROBERTS: So 5.5 is your bottom dollar. MR. HAMBRIC: That's correct. MR. ROBERTS: Now, if we were to pay 5.5 million dollars, would we do it based upon my agreement? MR. HAMBRIC: I think we can look at it and I think there's certain things in there like the RPUD, it's in your best interests to look at it. There may be things in there beneficial for you. MR. ROBERTS: Well, I think we've MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 306 already done that. MR. HAMBRIC: So what's the risk of the down side when you look at that that you see is worse than -- or that tenders the -- what's the problem with it? MR. ROBERTS: It's what I think I expressed initially. It creates an inconsistency between development parameters and something that's different than those development parameters. That's the down side of it. MR. HAMBRIC: What's -- the development parameters I don't think we finalized, did we? MR. ROBERTS: Well, it's getting late and I think that, you know, the town is not prepared to pay tonight 5.5 million dollars, so if that is in fact your position, then, you know, we need to take some time and talk about it further. MR. HAMBRIC: That's our position. MR. ROBERTS: Okay. I'll leave it to any of these gentlemen to say, but I think that's essentially it. MR. EYPEL: Are we permitted to -- can we make some comments, Mayor? MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 307 MAYOR VORESS: Sure. MR. EYPEL: Mr. Hambric, I would like to share with you a few thoughts and you and I have never met. I've never met any of you folks before tonight that I'm aware of, and I'm going to speak as a 42 -year resident of this town. When I came here there were 76 people in the town. There are now roughly 3,000 people. Contrary to popular belief, this town is not populated by millionaires with money rolling out of their pockets. Yes, we do have million dollar homes on the beach. Yes, we are assessed at X number of dollars. But I'd like to share with you, Mr. Hambric, that you can go down to the Ambassador South and the Ambassador East and you can find people in their seventies and eighties in those buildings who paid $17,500 for their retirement home. I'm not crying poor mouth to you, but I'm telling you with all my heart and every bit of sincerity that I have that if we commit to you for one entire year's budget of this town, one entire year annual budget of this town you are going to impose a tremendous burden on some people who do not deserve to be treated unfairly. Okay? MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 There are people here who that money means a great deal to. It means they'll have no new fire department. We will have no new government complex, we will have no new library and for the next twenty years, sir, they can look at their tax bill every year and say, gee, we enhanced the federal government's coffers by an additional 1.5 million dollars. 1.5 million. And we're going to pay for it over twenty to thirty years. Now, of course you could say to me, yes, Mr. Eypel, but I have a judgment in my pocket that may come alive again for twenty million bucks, and guess what? Those same 3,000 retired people in the Ambassadors and the Seagate and all the other small buildings around here, they're going to have to pay a lot of money for a lot of years, and they'll never forget the Resolution Trust Corporation as long as they live. I think what I'm trying to say is that your bottom line is five and a half million dollars. This is an extremely small town. And this is a tremendous burden on these people. And that's what I'm charged with, to look after their MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 309 interests and to try and help them as best I can and negotiate the best possible deal. Do I want them exposed to a twenty million dollar liability? I'd have to move out of this town, and you know it. I'd have to move out of this town. And I've been here 42 years and I have no intention of moving. And I'll pay my taxes, my federal taxes, my income tax, my state tax, my county tax and your tax for whatever period of time, but I'm asking you if you came here in good faith to negotiate a settlement with us, then let's negotiate. We sent you a valid proposal and I get back a letter that says you've already reached monetary agreement with this town. I didn't sign anything. That's your letter, not mine. We are here to try and work out a settlement that may hurt both of us. I don't feel good about it and I'm not supposed to. I'm trying to settle it. So please understand that any amount that you're able to come off your figure means a great deal to the people of this town. Not some of them. Some of them can well afford it. They could care less. They don't know who you are. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 310 They'll never even remember my name or your name or the amount of the tax bill. They'll just write a check and in the mail it goes. But there's a lot of people in this town that when they see that $400 a year for the next thirty years or the $500 a year, you're taking food out of their mouth. You're not. Pardon me. You have nothing to do with it. But the burden is there, and I'm asking you in your sense of fairness to realize that and to understand that it's a tremendous burden on a very small town populated by a lot of retired folks. That's it. MR. HAMBRIC: Commissioner, I think it's -- again, you and I aren't the guilty parties here when we say you. First of all, if you look at a -- I don't know what business you're in, but if you look at a twenty million dollar judgment, you present value it for risk and you present value it for time. MR. EYPEL: Yes, sir. MR. HAMBRIC: It's well above five and a half million dollars. MR. EYPEL: Yes, it is. MR. HAMBRIC: It's well above that. Unfortunately I have to stand up some day and, as MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 311 we like to say in the RTC, when all the indictments come down and we're drug before a Congressional committee, I'm going to have to defend that number. MR. EYPEL: I don't think you are, Mr. Hambric. I have it on good authority that you do not have to defend that number. MR. HAMBRIC: Well, I'm telling you from the people I work for I have to defend that number. Everything I do I have to defend, whether it's the Town of Highland Beach negotiation or John Doe. MR. EYPEL: That's in direct conflict with -- MR. HAMBRIC: Who are you talking to? MR. EYPEL: I don't want to go into the details of who we're talking to but -- I'm sorry. Go ahead. MR. HAMBRIC: I have been told by my boss in Washington, try to negotiate a settlement that's fair to both sides. You have the authority and you'll be able to justify it. And at five and a half million dollars, to be honest with you, I've double -dipped on the discount MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 312 rate, as I've explained to the Mayor and John Douglas at one meeting, I've added a lot of risk in there and the truth of the matter if you present value the deal, it's a seven to ten million dollar deal. The Mayor and I have talked about this before. This is not some mystical ball, you just write numbers down and you hit the Hewlett Packard and you hit the numbers and that's what they turn out to be. MR. EYPEL: Assuming you win -- MR. HAMBRIC: And I'm discounting the probability that I may not win, I mean I'm putting a fairly substantial discount factor for the probability of success. MR. RAND: Jay, why would you be so concerned about justifying a 25 percent settlement when in many instances RTC has settled for ten cents on a dollar with a lot of the failed banks? MR. HAMBRIC: We're averaging 92 cents on the dollar for book value. As a corporation we average 92 cents on the dollar for recoveries. MR. RAND: But there are a lot of settlements that you've made, Jay, on the basis MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 313 of ten cents on the dollar. MR. HAMBRIC: That's right. There's a lot of people it's the blood from the turnip argument that a dollar is all they can pay. MS. THOMSEN: And that's where you get your ten cents from. It's not itself a realization. MAYOR VORESS: Jay, let us just talk for a couple of minutes. If you all could just leave us for a few minutes. MR. HAMBRIC: Okay. (The RTC representatives leave the hearing room.) MAYOR VORESS: We got the answer to the question we asked, and I think the alternative we have is to say okay, go away. We'll up our number to five five based on you agreeing with this or some other thing. What's the sense of the Commission? VICE MAYOR PAUL: I'm too tired at this point to -- I don't feel capable of going any further. It would be unfair. MR. AUGENSTEIN: I feel we're being led into this by a very stubborn young man. I don't know why he came here. He could have said MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 314 over the telephone or sent us a letter this is my bottom line and that's it. Instead he has taken up seven hours of our time and we've gotten exactly nowhere with him except to find out that your papers drawn up by Rusty he doesn't like. MR. EYPEL: I didn't get even a -- is he or is he not willing to agree to our terms? MR. ROBERTS: He didn't agree to it. MS. MARIANO: We didn't touch on section ten. We didn't discuss it. MR. ROBERTS: He said, well, there's certain things on it and he goes right off on RPUD. So I mean that to me is no, I want my agreement. I may agree on certain things here and there for protection, but I assure you, I assure you that they're not coming off their remedies. I can tell you that right now. MS. MARIANO: We didn't ask him. That's the answer we don't have is the remedies. MR. ROBERTS: But, you know -- MS. MARIANO: But you can see that that's the tone. MR. ROBERTS: I asked him, use my MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 315 agreement. And there was no. MR. EYPEL: It was no? MR. ROBERTS: No. MR. AUGENSTEIN: Is he talking from strength or is he just bluffing? MR. ROBERTS: Just like he said before, it's a poker game. MAYOR VORESS: Commissioner Rand, what do you think? MR. RAND: I'm just scared as hell in losing the possibility of settling this thing, and I don't know that a difference of a million and a half is that -- is worth the risk. I'm concerned about losing the opportunity of settling a potential twenty million dollars liability. I don't like the idea of paying 5.5 million and then also having to agree with the type of agreement that they want. I don't think they can have it both ways. I'd be willing to go to five and a half million, but I will insist on the agreement being as Rusty has proposed. That would be the only compromise I'm prepared to make. MR. ROBERTS: I asked him that and he said no. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 316 VICE MAYOR PAUL: Right. As we said, we're gambling, and when all the facts are available to the residents of this town -- because the concern has been voiced to me is what is going to be built there through the years, and if we give too much in the building parameters, I think there are many people who would be willing to take the gamble of getting hit with the twenty million to keep your density and stuff minimal as to give a lot of concessions. MAYOR VORESS: Okay. Let me say what I think. I'm willing to go to five five because I don't want to take the chance either. But I think from my perspective I would like to say to the RTC, okay, we'll make a proposal to you at 5.5 if the redraft of the document is consistent with Rusty's piece, we don't have those. Maybe we can get some arguments one way or the other. no. MR. ROBERTS: I asked him, he said MS. MARIANO: He said no. MAYOR VORESS: He didn't say no. MR. EYPEL: He was vague on that. MAYOR VORESS: He didn't say no. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 317 And to say if it's consistent that we will offer five five, that's my position, not the whole Commission, that we will offer five five if the document is drafted consistent with Rusty's thing as it relates to building parameters, as it relates to remedies, as it relates to -- MR. EYPEL: And they must agree tonight or we don't pay the money or we go back to square one. If they agree tonight. Right, Arlin? MAYOR VORESS: They would have to agree to that and the document that would be drafted would be consistent with agreeing with Rusty's piece. We've got to have a piece of paper finally. We can't -- ultimately when we get a deal between the two of us, there must be a piece of paper we can display to the town, send to the court and get both parties to sign. So we've got to have a new piece of paper. MR. RAND: They also have to incorporate if they loan it to us under what terms, interest fee and so forth. MAYOR VORESS: On the incorporation of the loan. MR. RAND: Yeah. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0 MS. MARIANO: Why don't you just clarify your question with them. MR. EYPEL: Why don't we get them in here and see what they'll loan us the money for. MS. MARIANO: Clarify your question with regard to the agreement first. I mean we need to clarify that. MAYOR VORESS: We have several different views on the part of the Commission. VICE MAYOR PAUL: We're buckling in too quickly, too easily. MAYOR VORESS: Let's take a vote on the Commission what they would propose to do. I think we each had a chance of saying what we thought. MR. AUGENSTEIN: I'll start off by saying I'd like to delay it. I don't think I want to vote tonight on this issue. It is too fresh. I want to give it more thought. MR. EYPEL: I'm prepared to do it tonight if we can get them to come to terms, and I will -- I'll go along with the five and a half if they will agree to settling and to the -- we want remedies that Rusty has drafted. I will not expose the town to seventeen or twenty million MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 319 dollars or whatever it is. MAYOR VORESS: All right. Bill. VICE MAYOR PAUL: I hate to be pushed into having to vote tonight after we've been in this room for -- since one o'clock or SO. MAYOR VORESS: Okay. So you don't want to do that. You prefer not to do anything tonight. VICE MAYOR PAUL: I wish we didn't have to do anything tonight, yes. MAYOR VORESS: John. MR. RAND: I've stated my position. I'm prepared to go to five and a half million dollars because I don't want to run the risk of -- MAYOR VORESS: I think it's three to two that we call them in and tell them that. Is that what I understand? MR. ROBERTS: I think you ought to make a motion. MAYOR VORESS: I move -- well, let's -- somebody else probably ought to move. MR. RAND: I move that we agree to accept the cash settlement of 5.5 million MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 320 provided their loan conditions to us are acceptable. They haven't indicated what it would be. And that settlement will be contingent upon their agreeing to the settlement stipulation draft being in accordance with that prepared by Rusty Roberts except as agreed by him as to its modifications. MAYOR VORESS: Is there a second? MR. EYPEL: I'll second that. MAYOR VORESS: I'd like to have a roll call vote, I guess. Commissioner Augenstein. MR. AUGENSTEIN: No. MAYOR VORESS: Commissioner Eypel. MR. EYPEL: Yes. MAYOR VORESS: Vice Mayor Paul. VICE MAYOR PAUL: No. MAYOR VORESS: Commissioner Rand. MR. RAND: Yes. MAYOR VORESS: Mayor. Yes. All right. It's three to two. Let's call them back in. (The RTC representatives return to the hearing room.) MAYOR VORESS: Jay, the Commission MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 321 has passed a motion to talk to you about a proposition, and I'll ask Commissioner Rand, who made the motion, to relate that to you. MR. HAMBRIC: Okay. MR. RAND: The majority of the Commission is prepared to accept your cash settlement of 5.5 million based on a loan from you on conditions that are acceptable. You haven't indicated what they would be. Would you loan it to us for six months and what other conditions would apply. MR. HAMBRIC: Well, let's call it -- you've mentioned a down payment of some amount that could be paid immediately, some additional moneys I think in a short period of time, the remaining balance we'll call it interest free for six months. In the event it goes past six months it would accrue interest. MR. RAND: At what rate? The ninety -day treasury bill rate? MR. HAMBRIC: I'm going to throw out a term and I don't want anybody to be offended by it. If it goes six months, if it's not paid, do we then consider that default or do we have an exercise to option to renew? MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 322 MR. RAND: You would have an option to renew, but then of course at an interest rate that would be acceptable. We don't anticipate going beyond six months, but in the event that it should -- MR. HAMBRIC: We'll take treasury plus -- MR. RAND: A spread. MR. HAMBRIC: -- a spread. Two percent or something to that effect. MR. RAND: Now, that cash figure settlement is contingent upon your agreeing to the settlement stipulation as drafted by Mr. Roberts except for those changes that he has agreed to. MR. HAMBRIC: Okay. MR. RAND: So the settlement is absolutely contingent upon your acceptance of a settlement stipulation as proposed by Mr. Roberts. Otherwise there's no deal. MR. HAMBRIC: There's some things in there I think we need to talk about. Some things that we mentioned we're willing to concede on and some things in there in the development parameters. If you can -- I don't know how many MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 323 are deal breakers, but, for example -- MR. RAND: Well, the remedies I can tell you right off the bat are a deal breaker. That's out. MR. HAMBRIC: And the remedies, as I mentioned, if we get out of this within six months in the spirit of what the town's doing, I'm giving up remedies looking at the full judgment. MR. RAND: Okay. So that's one step in the right direction. MR. HAMBRIC: Yes. There's some other things in there I need a step in the right direction also such as -- MR. RAND: We're not prepared to go eighteen stories. It's sixteen stories with ten - foot ceiling. MR. HAMBRIC: We'll build three towers then. MR. RAND: That's okay. We agree. MAYOR VORESS: Fine. MR. RAND: We agree to that. MR. HAMBRIC: Okay. One of the things that did come up, someone mentioned that when we made one of the phone calls you can't MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 324 build a garage at ten feet because you have to have plumbing, other things coming down to meet code because you have to run water, all those kinds of things, so you need twelve feet for garages. MR. RAND: I don't anticipate that would be a problem, is it, Mrs. Mariano? MS. MARIANO: If you leave it with sixteen feet and with two garages and the garages are twelve feet and the rest of the floors are ten feet. MR. RAND: I don't think that would be a problem. MR. HAMBRIC: So we can look at then either three buildings or two buildings with twelve -foot garages? MR. RAND: Correct. MR. HAMBRIC: And I understand that comes in again for safety and infrastructure. MR. RAND: Right. MR. HAMBRIC: I think we worked out on the sale date, ten years from the sale date. MR. RAND: No, that's from the order date. That stands. I don't see any reason why -- Jay, the Court only gave you five years. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 325 MR. HAMBRIC: If I'm giving you six months free interest, you can't give me six months additional time from the date -- MAYOR VORESS: We can set it for ten years and six months. MR. HAMBRIC: Yeah, I mean we can set it for ten years from December or whatever the time. MR. RAND: That's agreeable, yes. MR. ROBERTS: Wait a minute. Point of order here. Mayor, the proposal means as proposed. I didn't think it meant negotiating and you're negotiating without the consent of the Commission. So it's either accept it or don't. And if you don't accept it, then we'll have to talk about it some more. Either except it as written -- MAYOR VORESS: Let me speak to the other things. MR. HAMBRIC: If you would give me a chance to go through and mention some items that are outstanding, then you can meet on it and say if you think those are reasonable or not, and if you don't then I guess we all do whatever we want to do. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 326 MR. RAND: Right. MR. HAMBRIC: But again looking at the order date, since we're financing for six months, it seems reasonable it would be whatever that time frame is from either sale date, ten years from sale date or settlement date with the town, order date. I mean that sounds reasonable to me. The infrastructure, if somebody could tell me that the water and sewer is there and you could hook up to it, that would solve the infrastructure problem. MAYOR VORESS: It's there now. MR. RAND: We agreed to that. MR. HAMBRIC: Well, that was one of the issues in the language of the agreement. I'd just like someone to say that there's water and sewer hook-ups there and if you started building tomorrow, the infrastructure is there to start building tomorrow. MAYOR VORESS: Let's ask the town manager. MS. MARIANO: The infrastructure is there now. MAYOR VORESS: It's there. In place. The lines run in front of the property. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 327 MR. HAMBRIC: All right. Where we talked about development parameters and then the conflict with development parameters, I guess I asked the question is there any conflict, does anyone know of any conflict, for example, if our parameters say one thing and your town ordinance says something else, is there conflict, do we need to identify that conflict up front? I think that was in page eight. The language was added, "To the extent they do not conflict with the development parameters or the terms of the stipulation, whichever should take precedence." Are there any conflicts, does anybody know, if the development parameters conflict with your current codes and ordinances? MS. MARIANO: Well, if they didn't we wouldn't need parameters, would we? If nothing was in conflict, we would just go by code. That's why we're doing the parameters because certainly there's going to be some conflicts in the parameters with the present code, I would think. That's what parameters are. MR. ROBERTS: They absolutely c o n f 1 i c t . MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 9" MS. MARIANO: Certainly you do. MR. ROBERTS: What you're talking about is building code as opposed to zoning code. The building code is different from the zoning code. Your parameters addressed zoning issues. The building addresses walls, studs, things of that nature. Those aren't covered by zoning. And that's why it takes precedence. That's the Standard Building Code. MR. HAMBRIC: So are there any in this idea of building so many stories, is there anything there that's a conflict with the current codes that we're aware of as proposed in the parameters? I don't know. I'm asking the question. MR. ROBERTS: I don't know either. MS. MARIANO: The heights, the setbacks, yeah, sure. MR. ROBERTS: I don't know. But to the extent -- what the height is in the building code? MS. MARIANO: No, it's in conflict he said to the town's codes. MR. ROBERTS: No, no, building code. Building code. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 329 MS. MARIANO: No, building code only addresses structural requirements. It doesn't have anything to do with setbacks, with height, with size of units or anything like that. It's just to make sure a building is built in conformance with the code to make it safe. MR. ROBERTS: The issues that might come up is that depending upon your structural design that you have, it may require more fire escapes or windows like that, and any architect or land planner gets involved like that, so it's going to impact upon your design of your buildings. So whatever the developer has in mind they've got to take it and what is meant by that provision is the building code takes precedence because for the safety of those residents is the prime importance rather than the pocketbook of the developer. MR. HAMBRIC: Okay. And the remedies, playing devil's advocate a minute, if the town defaults on the note, which I don't expect it to happen, but generally when you write a note it mentions something about default, attorneys' fees and the default rate of interest if the town defaults. I'm assuming you want the MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 330 same terms and conditions as anyone else signing a note. MR. RAND: It depends on wnat Inose terms and conditions are. MR. HAMBRIC: What's the default rate of interest in the state of Florida? We can put an option in to extend for another period of time but -- MR. RAND: I don't know that there's a default interest. There's a maximum. MR. HAMBRIC: There's a default rate of interest. MR. RAND: I'm not aware that there's a law regarding default interest. I think that's negotiable to the extent of the usury law. MR. HAMBRIC: You're the Florida lawyer. What's the current -- when you see notes, what's the default rate? MR. ROBERTS: He's right, there is no default rate of interest. It's just the usury law. MR. HAMBRIC: What's the usury? MR. ROBERTS: 21 or 22 percent. MR. HAMBRIC: So I don't assume MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 331 you're going to default, but I do need to write something in there saying in the event you do default I can go up to eighteen percent interest and attorneys' fees. Is that fair? MR. RAND: I have no objection to that. Mr. Hambric, please remember that we expect the right to prepay this note. MR. HAMBRIC: No prepayment penalties. And we talked again the parking, we worked on the parking. The unit size there was some question. Again, we got the unit size based on the comparables of the appraisals for the property using -- MR. RAND: The square footage size has to be as agreed in the draft of Mr. Roberts. That is a deal breaker. MR. HAMBRIC: I don't have -- Rusty, I don't have in front of me your -- do you know the numbers? MS. MARIANO: Fourteen, sixteen and eighteen. MR. HAMBRIC: Fourteen, sixteen and eighteen. We said ten -foot buffer before you could do amenities, didn't we? MR. ROBERTS: Setback. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 332 MR. HAMBRIC: Setback. I'm not sure if that's actually in the agreement. Judith, what did I miss? MS. THOMSEN: I think what you missed is the remedies provision, and I think that we had clearly in Rusty's provision you have a remedies provision that -- first of all, you have the earlier one where you waive your rights in exchange. Then you have the remedies provision where you only have a remedy if in fact certain provisions of specific paragraphs of the agreement, and when we talked about it the biggest difficulty you have with that is we haven't gone back through each and said what paragraphs do we have to have enforced, number one. But number two, you also don't have the kind of any memorialization of the spirit of the compromise which was that the town would be assisting you and working with you and doing everything they could to help you within their boundaries because that's what we're talking about when we talked about material breach, et cetera. MR. HAMBRIC: So what section is the remedies section in the old -- MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 333 MS. THOMSEN: I'll show you. It's number ten. MR. HAMBRIC: Number ten. MS. THOMSEN: What you've done is you only have certain provisions which in fact give you the remedy. Violation of other provisions gives you nothing under the agreement. MR. HAMBRIC: Okay. I need to ask -- I need to talk to Judith a minute about the remedies. VICE MAYOR PAUL: We presented an offer. What are we doing now, modifying it or -- MAYOR VORESS: We're just understanding what the differences are with respect to the Commission. MR. ROBERTS: You want to take a ten-minute break? MAYOR VORESS: Ten-minute break. (A recess is taken.) MAYOR VORESS: Okay. Jay, you want to kind of bring us up to speed on where you stand? MR. HAMBRIC: Yeah, it's difficult for me to sit here today and say subject to some MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 334 of the changes we've made that I can accept the document, the legal document as written. I think conceptually I can buy off on the theory. The problem gets down to I have to go through and read the thing again when it's drafted. Judith has to tell me these are the things you're giving up and this is what you're getting if you give up something. And from that point of view I can then look at it and say, well, Judith, is that and it requires that since we're settling litigation, it requires Judith's concurrence, I can't do this without general counsel blessing the transaction, and until I can sit down and read with Judith paragraph by paragraph so she can explain my risk and what I'm giving up, I'm not in a position to say today that I can accept the agreement as written because there may be something in there that's so onerous I can't do it. I don't know that at this point. I think conceptually -- MAYOR VORESS: So how shall we get MR. HAMBRIC: Well, I mean Rusty and Judith can conference and start writing language tonight and we'll sit here till they're finished. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 335 MS. THOMSEN: We need to sit down -- MAYOR VORESS: What's your schedule for tomorrow? MS. THOMSEN: I can meet with Rusty. I think that, you know, one of the things that -- I mean there is one like a side provision which didn't seem to be material which pertains to the other property not owned by the RTC which was whether or not it affected or had any effect or benefitted, and we have an agreement with Mr. Hoffman regarding some retainage pond or whatever, and so I can't -- I wouldn't feel comfortable signing a document that said that because I can't say what are the benefits, so I can't do that. That's a minor issue. MAYOR VORESS: Can we leave it this way in the morning -- Rusty, how does your schedule look? MR. ROBERTS: I'm booked tomorrow. MAYOR VORESS: You're booked tomorrow. MS. THOMSEN: I think that one of the things that we were talking about in terms of the remedy provision and I know that Commissioner Rand had an objection to which was the MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 336 enumeration of specific remedies not precluding for pursuing other remedies, and we exchanged I think some thought on that that we're willing to try to fine tune things to be as specific as possible, but what I pointed out to Jay, I mean for one thing the remedies provision that is in Rusty's draft would give us in any event regardless of what the town does $60,000 a year for the development of a property like this which is clearly inadequate. We -- I can certainly honestly say that I know that Jay would like nothing better than to reach agreement and for us to be able to come to an agreement where we can say to the people we made reasonable protection for the developer and then we're going to sell it and try to get out of it, but right now there are some things that need to be -- some fine tuning of that. The remedy section is one. I'm not necessarily opposed to the very limited approach that Rusty has proposed where you actually specify a handful of provisions that you're going to enforce in the remedy provision. Conceptually that might be okay, but I don't know that we've gotten, in fact I know that we don't have a complete list of all MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 337 the provisions that you really I believe have to have in the remedy provision. MAYOR VORESS: Can I suggest this then, Jay, from a business point of view that we ask Rusty and Judith to get together at whatever time frame. MS. THOMSEN: And I will accommodate -- if it can't be tomorrow, then it will have to be by phone, but I will accommodate my schedule to talk to him when he is available. MR. HAMBRIC: The other thing, Arlin, as I mentioned, I am tentatively scheduled to leave Florida Sunday, but if we get this done, I mean Monday or Tuesday or Friday, probably Monday or Tuesday since my family is probably disappointed that I've taken them away on vacation, I'm never home when I take them away on vacation, but that's my problem, not yours. Probably Monday, can come back over Tuesday and maybe if we got to the point of signing documents we can do so. I think we've met the spirit and we've got some parameters to work within. Again, it's tough for me to sit here and we laughed about this thirty -page document and say after MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 338 four hours of discussion tonight, I can buy it the way it's written. MAYOR VORESS: Let me ask the Commission, is the Commission prepared to let them get together and get a piece of paper that we'll look at? MR. AUGENSTEIN: There's no alternative at the moment. MAYOR VORESS: All right. MR. RAND: The proposal that we made, Mr. Hambric, was that we agreed to the cash settlement that you requested on the strict condition that the settlement stipulation be in accordance with that prepared by Mr. Roberts. Now, if you don't agree with the terms of that settlement stipulation, then we don't have a deal so we'll just leave it -- we'll withdraw it until such time as you come back to us and tell us whether you are prepared to accept that condition, but that is a strict condition and is a deal breaker. MR. HAMBRIC: We may have a deal breaker. There may be paragraphs in there that I can't live with, but, again -- MR. RAND: You can come back to us, MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 339 but I want you to know that the proposal is contingent upon your acceptance of the settlement stipulation as prepared by Mr. Roberts. We're not in a position to jeopardize an additional risk for the residents of this town which the remedy provision of your agreement in our opinion makes reference to. And I think it's an open- ended liability that we're not prepared to accept and endanger the residents of this town. So I must repeat that the offer is as I have stated. If it changes, then we have to renegotiate. MR. HAMBRIC: Again, I understand your position. Please understand mine. MR. RAND: I do indeed. MR. HAMBRIC: That you're asking me to approve a document, I'm not queering the numbers or queering the deal, but I have to have time to reflect because I too can't make commitments until I'm comfortable. MAYOR VORESS: All right. So we'll leave it that Rusty will get together with Judith or Judith with Rusty, however that goes. A piece of paper, papers will be prepared within the next few days and you're prepared to have that to -- to discuss that at a meeting with us early next MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 340 week? MR. HAMBRIC: Rusty, what's your -- and Judith -- I'm asking Rusty, I haven't asked Judith, my own counsel, what your all's time frame is that's possible. MS. THOMSEN: You know, we can -- there are, as I indicated, and one is the example regarding the seven acres that was at one point part of the RPUD. We cannot make or we cannot sign a document that makes a representation currently in the agreement, as an example, it might seem like a minor point but -- MR. HAMBRIC: But your calendar. MS. THOMSEN: My calendar is, as I told him, I can accommodate his schedule. But I guess in terms of where we go from here is what you're looking for from us anyway how close we can come -- you want me to get back to you with absolutely the bare minimum number of changes that we feel we would have to have. MR. ROBERTS: No, I think -- MR. RAND: Well, that would be changes acceptable to us. MS. THOMSEN: That's what I'm saying. MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 341 MR. HAMBRIC: A document for you to look at again. MS. THOMSEN: They clearly may not be acceptable to you. MAYOR VORESS: The motion I believe as reiterated by Mr. Rand as I have drafted and we have made some concessions to you, what I will do is go back and redraft that and send that to you. And that's the deal. You can reflect on it and get back with us and say yea, nay. MR. HAMBRIC: When do you expect to get that to us? MR. ROBERTS: I will probably have it out to you tomorrow, if not the first thing the next day. MR. RAND: Jay, I'd also like to make one other comment, and I'm sure I speak on behalf of my fellow commissioners here and Mr. Roberts and Miss Mariano. I hope there's one message that you got, and we thank you for coming here and for your patience in negotiating this matter, but I hope that you get the impression that we are genuinely sincere in trying to reach a settlement. If you don't go away with that impression, we're damned surprise. But there's MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 342 been some reference made to the fact that this commission has no intention of settling, and I hope we put that to bed once and for all because that's never been the truth. We've always been willing to settle. MR. HAMBRIC: I mean that's never been the position articulated between the Mayor and I. In several informal discussions we have both been committed. He's always mentioned the Commission has been committed. I mean in adversarial situations sometimes things spin around, but, like you, I would like to get this settled. I think we've got something close that we can get back late in the week, early next week and maybe sign documents, shake hands and have a photo opportunity and we'll all go on with our lives. MR. RAND: And you buy the margueritas. MR. HAMBRIC: I'll be here. MAYOR VORESS: I'd like to close this meeting. MR. ROBERTS: We can close the executive session. MAYOR VORESS: We'll close the MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building 319 Clematis Street Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza NationsBank International Place Suite 205 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road West Code (407) 659-415501 AreaPalm FAr Area I(3051) 525-67234 Area �Code (3 5) 371-2713 Area Code n(1407)�338-0955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 343 executive session now and the executive session is adjourned. MR. ROBERTS: What time is it? MAYOR VORESS: It's 10:42. (Whereupon the meeting was adjourned.) M CERTI FI CATE THE STATE OF FLORIDA, ) COUNTY OF PALM BEACH. ) I, Barbara Bolton, Registered Professional Reporter, certify that I was authorized to and did stenographically report the foregoing proceedings and that the transcript is a true record. Dated this 17th day of April, 1995. BARBARA BOLTON, RPR STATE OF FLORIDA COUNTY OF PALM BEACH The foregoing certificate was acknowledged before- his 17th day of April, 1995. .. ......,.: Notary Public - State of Florida My commission expires: PX NX-'1A,. 'W0�II"i.,Iyy�ffH Nt 1rY Public, ulat�a of Florida ' . My C,ornm. Expire,Oct. 4, 1998 -- Ntr, C`,11Q funded stmt, (o((k-jai ,,kggr »>trY MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205 319 Clematis Street West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 NationsBank Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor Miami, Florida 33131 2499 Glades Road Boca Raton, Florida 33431 Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955