1995.04.04_TC_Minutes_Executive Session1
EXECUTIVE SESSION OF THE TOWN COMMISSION
OF THE TOWN OF HIGHLAND BEACH, FLORIDA
Tuesday, April 4, 1995
3614 South Ocean Boulevard
Highland Beach, Florida
3:05 P.M. - 10:43 P.M.
PRESENT:
ARLIN VORESS, MAYOR
BILL PAUL, VICE -MAYOR
DAVID AUGENSTEIN, COMMISSIONER
ARTHUR EYPEL, COMMISSIONER
JOHN F. RAND, COMMISSIONER
MARY ANN MARIANO, TOWN MANAGER
GEORGE ROBERTS, ESQUIRE
BARBARA BOLTON, COURT REPORTER
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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EXECUTIVE SESSION OF THE TOWN COMMISSION
OF THE TOWN OF HIGHLAND BEACH, FLORIDA
Tuesday, April 4, 1995
3614 South Ocean Boulevard
Highland Beach, Florida
3:05 P.M. - 10:43 P.M.
PRESENT:
ARLIN VORESS, MAYOR
BILL PAUL, VICE -MAYOR
DAVID AUGENSTEIN, COMMISSIONER
ARTHUR EYPEL, COMMISSIONER
JOHN F. RAND, COMMISSIONER
MARY ANN MARIANO, TOWN MANAGER
GEORGE ROBERTS, ESQUIRE
BARBARA BOLTON, COURT REPORTER
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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1 MAYOR VORESS: I call to order this
2 Special Meeting of the Town Commission of the
3 Town of Highland Beach. will the Clerk please
4 call the roll.
5 THE CLERK: Commissioner Rand.
6 MR. RAND: Here.
7 THE CLERK: Commissioner Augenstein.
8 MR. AUGENSTEIN: Here.
9 THE CLERK: Vice Mayor Paul.
10 VICE MAYOR PAUL: Here.
11 THE CLERK: Commissioner Eypel.
12 MR. EYPEL: Here.
13 THE CLERK: Mayor Voress.
14 MAYOR VORESS: Here. I'd like to
15 temporarily adjourn the Special Meeting of the
16 Town Commission, Town of Highland Beach, and call
17 to order an executive meeting of the Town
18 Commission.
19 MR. ROBERTS: On behalf -- as the
20 special counsel in town for purposes of the RTC
21 Broadview litigation, Your Honor, I would request
22 an executive session of the town to discuss
23 strategy of settlement of this matter. I would
241
note
that
we have a
court reporter
present and
25;
that
the
persons in
addition to the
roll called
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
wast Palm Beach. Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
__ _ — n_.d.. N]nrN 071 071Q Arca (.nrla (407) 338-0955
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myself, Rusty Roberts, and Town Manager Mary Ann
Mariano. And we expect that the meeting will
last an hour.
MAYOR VORESS: Thank you. All
right. In order to get this meeting underway, I
would, one, like to bring the Commission up to
date on my conversations with the RTC relative to
the motion at the last executive committee
meeting to invite Jay Hambric of the RTC to meet
with the executive session of the Town Commission
and also to request a response to the town's
proposal for settlement.
I did indeed call Jay on Wednesday
after our meeting on Tuesday, told him the Town
Commission would like to invite him to come to
the executive session of the Town Commission, and
he said when, I said we'll try to set it up for
Tuesday after the regular meeting of the Town
Commission. And he said that he was going to be
in Florida and that would suit his schedule all
right. ]ie would be willing to do that.
MR. ROBERTS: Mayor, if I could
interrupt you. I don't know if you're familiar
with these. You have to -- and I'm talking with
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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the court reporter, you have to start the time of
the meeting, I think it was probably 3:04, and
identify people who speak. And nothing is off
the record. Okay. Thank you. I'm sorry, Mayor.
MAYOR VORESS: No problem. And he
said he would be willing to do that. He said who
will be here, and I said the five commissioners,
the town manager and the man who will be our
attorney, Rusty Roberts. And he said fine. Then
he would have to bring an attorney from the RTC
and that would be Judith Thomsen who, by the way,
is the person that met with John Douglas and I in
Valley Forge and who has drafted part of the
documents.
I said to Jay we need, though, to
have a response to our proposal. We do not have
that. Where do you stand on that? He said I
have now reviewed that, and he said my general
observation is that the legal issues have been
well dealt with. He said I still have a problem
with the money, and he said that the RTC had been
in conversations with some party, which I assume
to be either a developer or a land planner, who
had said to the RTC they'd like to talk about the
development parameters for that property, and I
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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said, well, bring whatever you want to the Town
Commission when you come. They're the ones you
need to talk to. So he said fine, he would be
there. And I said, well, when will you have the
document to us? And he said when do you need
it? I said by Friday afternoon at the latest.
And I said I will call you to confirm the
meeting. And I think Rusty got it set up and I
called Jay on Friday morning to confirm the
meeting today with the RTC and to ask him where
we stood on getting the document here. He said
that Judith was working on it. It would be here
late in the afternoon. Mary Ann called me about
between what, five thirty and six, I guess.
MS. MARIANO: Right close to six.
MAYOR VORESS: And said that the
document wasn't here yet. And I said, well, is
the machine still on? She said yes. I said,
well, why don't you go home. I'll come back to
Town Hall in the morning and see if it's here. I
did and found it was here, called Doris and we
transmitted it to everybody, with a copy to
Mary Ann and the five of us, and I left a call
for Rusty because I didn't know whether he had
gotten a copy and we had a copy for him and I
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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subsequently understood he had gotten some
information from him.
I do want to comment on the cover
letter that was received with the RTC response to
us and specifically the last sentence in the
second paragraph in which Jay says, "In earlier
conversations I have already notified you that
our revision would reflect the monetary
settlement we reached with the town." That is
incorrect. As far as I know there is no monetary
settlement with the town, no data shows that and
I intend to say that to Jay in public session
that there is no monetary agreement with the
town.
Then I would propose that the first
part of our executive meeting would be devoted to
a Commission discussion of the response that we
have gotten from the RTC and that a consensus be
reached on the issues that are in that document,
and then such a session would then -- after that
we would call the RTC in to meet with us. As an
aside they are here and also Chris Yates, so
there are actually three people here, Jay Hambric
who is head of the Valley Forge office, Judith
Thomsen who represents the law end of the branch
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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of the RTC, and Jay Hambric who -- and Chris
Yates who is head of the SADT team, the Strategic
Assets Disposal Team. We'll call them in and
discuss then, have the discussion between the
Commission.
Now, since there are five
commissioners here, I think we would probably be
best served to have one spokesman to talk with
the RTC back and forth, not that we won't all
join in, but somebody has to be the lead and that
could be either me as chair of the meeting or
Mary Ann or Rusty, and I would suggest that it
ought to be Rusty since he's prepared the
document. Does anybody have any problem with
that?
MR. RAND: No.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: No.
MR. EYPEL: No.
MAYOR VORESS: My review of the
RTC's response is that there are around five
categories of issues in this response we had from
them. One, there were minor things. Two, there
were areas of change that I think need legal
clarification. At least I need to understand
that where we have said we'll do something after
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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a court order, they say after settlement
stipulation. I don't know what the meaning of
some of that is. There are certainly changes in
development parameters. There are changes in the
monetary settlement and there are also -- they
deleted almost our whole remedy section. I'd
like to understand a little bit about that.
So I think we might think about as
we walk through here the various categorizations.
If there's minor things, I don't think we need a
lot of time on that if we're trying to get
through this pretty quickly. And so I would
suggest that we also -- what we ought to do in
joint session with the RTC is either we or they
need to have a conference to resolve some issue
if a question arises, that we will either meet
here and excuse them to the conference room where
they are right now in Town Hall or if they want
to be excused, they'll move to the conference
room to resolve some issue to respond to us, that
we do that. Then after -- if you agree with that
after we get everything done, I'll invite those
personnel to join the meeting, introduce all the
parties, tell them how we plan to proceed with
this meeting and then ask them if they have any
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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objections. Then I still want to comment to Jay
on this statement he's put in here. And then
after the meeting we'll adjourn this meeting and
reconvene the special session. Does anybody have
any problem with that kind of a procedure or like
to change it?
MR. RAND: No, the only suggestion
that I would like to make is I think we ought to
dwell on the matters that I think could be more
easily resolved and are not as of major
consequence as the issues of the monetary
situation and also the height. So I think we
ought to talk about the various terms and the
changes that they made and why they made it and
have an understanding of it and then leave the
discussion regarding monetary consideration and
their new request about increasing the height to
the end so at least we make some progress in that
respect in the event that we can't reach any
agreement on the last two issues.
MAYOR VORESS: Okay. I think that
if we could all have our druthers we'd like to
come out of here with an agreement that a new
document could be prepared in which whatever
changes are appropriate to both parties would be
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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put in there and then a new document would be
developed before they leave here so we would have
in our hands something that we as a town could
proceed with the process to advertise, have
public hearings and then vote up or down. Is
that what we'd like to see as the end result of
this meeting?
MR. RAND: I think perhaps another
suggestion might be to ask them whether they're
prepared to stay here another day or so in order
to finalize this agreement assuming that we do
have a meeting of the minds because I don't think
you're going to have a new document prepared that
quickly but --
MAYOR VORESS: Well, let me tell you
I introduced -- said hello to them and asked them
to sit in the conference room and told them that
we needed to meet first because we had not met as
a group.
MR. RAND: Right.
MAYOR VORESS: And Jay's comment to
Judith at that time was, well, I need the time
because I really haven't gone over everything
you've put together here, Judith, and he'd like
to do that. And I said if we can get a general
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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agreement among the five people who are the
determinative body of the town are sitting in
front of you right now, would you be prepared to
put some kind of document together that would
incorporate any or all changes that we decide on,
and she said yes, I have a disk with me and a
computer attached to the one in Valley Forge or
Philadelphia, and it is programmed to Rusty's
piece of paper here.
MR. RAND: Okay.
MAYOR VORESS: And that they would
be willing to do whatever it is --
MR. RAND: Fine.
MAYOR VORESS: -- that came from
that. Is that --
MR. EYPEL: Are we -- so, in other
words, Mayor, if I understand correctly, we have
the ability to commit both sides today if we want
to.
MAYOR VORESS: The people from both
sides are here that have the ability.
MR. EYPEL: To commit.
MAYOR VORESS: Well, to get a
general agreement, yes.
MR. EYPEL: Okay.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MAYOR VORESS: The commitment as far
as the town is concerned will be a formal process
that allows us to do that.
MR. RAND: I don't think that point
has ever been clarified and I know the
stipulation makes provision for it, but perhaps
Miss Thomsen can confirm that if we reach an
agreement that Mr. Hambric is duly authorized to
sign the agreement.
MAYOR VORESS: I think we should
certainly ask that.
MR. RAND: I'd like to have that
assurance.
MAYOR VORESS: Sure.
MR. RAND: That if we come to a
meeting of the minds that Mr. Hambric is indeed
authorized to sign and bind such an agreement.
MAYOR VORESS: Well, that's the
point that the Town Manager has been making all
along, and I think that's an excellent point.
There's no problem with that.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: Is the other
attorney going to be here when we get into the
finances?
MS. MARIANO: No.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. RAND: He's out of town. You
mean our attorney, Bill?
VICE MAYOR PAUL: Yes.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: I think we have to
address the new building parameters which they've
put in. I think that could very well be a
stumbling block.
MAYOR VORESS: Well, it could be but
we certainly need to get some stance of our own,
do you think, first?
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Absolutely. We
should all be coordinated on what we're going to
offer.
MAYOR VORESS: I think the Town
Manager had something she wanted to bring up,
too.
MS. MARIANO: Yes, I have something
I want to read into the record at this point
before we get into it. "Due to the latest letter
and proposal submitted by Mr. Hambric on behalf
of the RTC and concerns raised by you
individually to me, I feel it necessary at this
time to clarify on record several items.
Subsequent to this issue having been tried in
Federal Court in February of 1992 and Mr.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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Hambric's assignment to the matter, I have met
personally with him and various associates of his
three times, twice at Town Hall over a year ago
with the Mayor present and once in February of
this year in West Palm Beach with both the Mayor
and Attorney Roberts present. At all three
meetings, the first two by me and the last by Mr.
Roberts, Mr. Hambric has been told in no
uncertain terms that it takes the entire elected
body to bind the town to any settlement, not its
Manager, its Mayor nor its Attorney but a
majority of the entire Commission. All of the
meetings and conversations with the RTC have been
held directly between Mr. Hambric, RTC staff, the
Mayor and John Douglas. I feel that regardless
of what may have been said or implied in any
further meetings or conversations held by others,
Mr. Hambric has already been put on notice three
times that no settlement with the town could be
reached on any specific issue without this
Commission meeting in session. I believe that
for the record a letter correcting Mr. Hambric's
obvious misunderstanding is in order and should
be written as soon as possible to clarify the
written record in this matter."
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MAYOR VORESS: Okay. Any other
comments?
15
MR. AUGENSTEIN: I'd like to ask
Rusty, have you read the transmittal they sent,
the corrected --
MR. ROBERTS: The letter you mean:
MR. AUGENSTEIN: The letter where
they corrected yours.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, I received
apparently at the same time that the town
received it in my office a fax of the transmittal
with the so-called final agreement and then the
document entitled Draft with the various notes on
it, and after I reviewed it it became apparent to
me that I had not received everything because the
numbering seemed to be off and there seemed to be
pages missing and my first assumption was that
those pages were missing, there was nothing in
it. Nothing changed. And I checked this morning
with Mary Ann and found that there in fact were
other pages and other changes, and so when I -- I
went through last night and drew up this document
which I had distributed to you all this morning,
and I came by Town Hall and picked up the rest of
the documents, and that's what I've been doing
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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Needless to say that I don't believe
reached with the town by anyone. I've not seen
any correspondence to that effect. What one
person thinks may not be -- you know, certainly
that might well be a negotiating tool on their
part as well or a strategy on their part as
well. But I've looked through it and there's
some, you know, some substantial changes and am
prepared to go through that one by one. In
addition, as I said before at the last -- a
couple of meetings ago, every time you read this
you think of something new, and I have some
further comments to make which I think since they
have sought to make changes that we probably need
to consider as well, the most obvious of those
which I discussed with Mary Ann this morning is
that in the approval procedure the document as
written that we submitted to them simply said
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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we'll agree to said resolution sent to you but
there was no time limit on them getting it back
to us which could leave the potential that they
could take it, take it up there and sit and wait
and see what happens in the appellate court. And
if they won they wouldn't sign it. If they lost
they'd sign it. So I don't -- you know,
everybody thinks that wouldn't happen because
they're here and they're going to sign and stuff
like that, but I think it's necessary to insert
some time period in there to say that you should,
you know, you've got ten days and if you don't do
it in ten days, then the whole deal is off.
Okay? Ours is not valid. So it doesn't give
them the ability to do that.
It seems to me that somewhere along
the way, and this has been discussed about Mr.
Hambric's ability to, you know, be authorized to
sign this and certainly he's down here and
whatever, but it seems to me that in the number
of years I've been involved with this they've
always indicated that any such agreements have to
be approved by some committee or board above
them, and I don't know one way or the other
whether that's true or not. You know, that's one
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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of the things and that's one of the other things
that I have to put in there would be, you know, I
want to see some authority that we can rely on
that -- okay, I'm getting a note here. The other
thing that I haven't done, too, because I just
received it yesterday was that the RTC, I want to
call them plaintiff, I guess they're appellee had
filed a motion to file a supplemental brief to
the Eleventh Circuit, and I believe you all
received that, essentially it was argument and
that was denied by the Court and in a short
one -sentence order it was signed by Judge Cox. I
asked -- called Sam and said what did he think of
that and he said not much and he said, you know,
that's probably what it is -- what the true
result should be. He then at our request called
the Eleventh Circuit this morning just to see
whether or not some opinion had been written and
sent out and maybe that was an impetus for
settlement and he got back and said no opinion
had been written was the response he got, so
that's where we stand with the Eleventh Circuit.
Other comments I have I suppose
we'll go along with as we go along here, but --
what I have submitted to you is a document. As I
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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said, I went through theirs last night, their
draft, and I also went through theirs and tried
to pick up in other areas where there had been
changes that weren't necessarily reflected in
their draft, and there are a few of those and
then of course the first five pages I think I
didn't get and one of the -- two of the exhibits
and I made changes to those. Although some of
those are not significant, though, they may be
poignant.
I too have the ability, I have my
word processor right here on the desk back here
that I can do the same thing.
MAYOR VORESS: Good.
MR. ROBERTS: We can change it, our
agreement can be changed and typed up and printed
on that printer right over there because we did
it -- that's where we printed this this morning
so --
MR. RAND: Why don't we go page by
page.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: What we have in
front of us now is the result of you having now
inspected all the documents received by us and --
MR. ROBERTS: Pretty much. There
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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were still -- this was a result of being able to
view the settlement stipulation and I think two
of the exhibits. Okay? There were a couple of
the other exhibits which I did not have on my
word processor at the time so I couldn't make
those changes. I have since done that. I have a
copy of that now. You don't have a copy of some
of the exhibits how they've changed it.
MR. RAND: I have that.
MR. ROBERTS: Okay. And I don't
think you can see that. But I have all the
documents now on the word processor and we can go
through that.
MAYOR VORESS: Can we start?
MR. RAND: Why don't we go page by
page.
MAYOR VORESS: Let's go page by page
through the document. The first page. Do you
see any problem, Rusty, with adding the
Stipulation of Settlement on the agreement?
MR. ROBERTS: I don't have a problem
with that. I would just say Settlement
Stipulation is the title.
MR. RAND: But they've added this
in. Does it make any material difference what
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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they add?
MR. ROBERTS: No, I don't think
there's any substantial difference here. That's
just stylistic. And I hate to put too many
different names to it. I like to be consistent
with one name, and to the extent that there are
other instances, I would just delete those, but I
think if it's entitled Settlement Stipulation,
then filed as Settlement Stipulation to amicably
resolve this action.
MR. RAND: So we can leave in what
they suggested.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, I would just
suggest that we say instead of this stipulation,
it would be this settlement stipulation.
MR. RAND: So our suggestion would
be settlement stipulation.
MR. ROBERTS: Right.
MR. RAND: Okay. Next page. Any
change there?
MAYOR VORESS: Nothing on there.
Third page. Delete "the".
MR. RAND: They just had the article
"the". There's no big problem there.
MS. MARIANO: Four, I think there is
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MAYOR VORESS: Page four there is.
MS. MARIANO: Yes, I think they
unclarified something that Rusty was -- I think
you made it a point to clarify that the Hoffman
parcel was not included, and they omitted that.
MAYOR VORESS: That's right.
MR. RAND: Why? That's what I'd
like to know, why should that be omitted.
MR. ROBERTS: I don't know. Well,
they -- here again their suggestion is this --
the stipulation applies to the property and we
had a, you know, much more clear thing. I like
mine better. I don't know that theirs is
substantially different because there are other
parts of this agreement which mention that as
well. For instance, the Exhibit 1, the property
description specifically excludes this as a part
of the property, and I add that in and they made
no change to that so --
VICE MAYOR PAUL: And right here
they could put as applies to the property as
described in exhibit whatever.
MR. ROBERTS: Yeah, I mean I don't
have any problem with their "more or less".
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. RAND: "More or less" is okay in
both cases.
MR. ROBERTS: More or less in both
cases. Okay?
MR. RAND: Now, is there --
MR. ROBERTS: But I thought it was
important and the reason I put it in there,
important because that, you know, there is -- one
of the suggestions that they want to do is to go
back to the RPUD. Okay?
MAYOR VORESS: That's correct.
MR. ROBERTS: And the approved RPUD
covers that property.
MAYOR VORESS: Absolutely.
MR. ROBERTS: Okay? It covers that
seven acres so that's why I wanted to be clear
here that it's not covered and that's why I
suggested that we either do it under a new plan
or an amended RPUD plan to reflect this and we're
going to get into those discussions later, so I
think that something could be compromised here,
but it's got to be clear that to the extent the
RPUD covered that previous plan, it is not
covered by the settlement stipulation.
MR. RAND: Oh, okay. So we have to
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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discuss that point.
MR. ROBERTS: Right.
MR. RAND: Okay. Number three,
that's page six.
MR. ROBERTS: Now, that's -- this is
a continuation of the same problem because my
thought in context in this I think is probably
one of the major blocks here that people got to
come to agreement on is that when you enter into
this agreement, it always to me works best if
this agreement is your thing and there is no
reference to any previous agreements or previous
plans or anything else. What you want, I
believe, is that this property is controlled by
these parameters. Now, they can do any site plan
they want as long as it's within these
parameters. The difficulty I have when you get
into saying either with the RPUD plan, there very
well may be and I believe that there are
differences between that plan and the parameters
herein. Okay? I mean it's -- I haven't pulled
out the RPUD plan that was approved in 1980, but
I think that it -- well, for one instance it
allowed for 620 units. Okay?
VICE MAYOR PAUL: That's right.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. ROBERTS: It allowed for five
towers.
MAYOR VORESS: Yeah. No, I think
wasn't it three?
MR. ROBERTS: Well, there's two on
Hoffman's.
MAYOR VORESS: That's what I mean,
two on Hoffman's and three on this property.
MR. ROBERTS: And there were
townhouses but there's five towers there, so my
problem with that is once you allow yourself to
get into those discussions and you've got the
continuing jurisdiction, if they come in and say,
gee, this was allowed in the RPUD plan because
you notice later on they put in that the town
codes here or the RPUD plan and that takes
precedence, and I don't want that either.
MAYOR VORESS: No. No.
MR. ROBERTS: So to me it is that,
you know, the RPUD plan, and, quite frankly, as
we saw in the final judgment that was entered
presumably at their request over our objection,
they wanted the Court to institute, reinstitute
the RPUD-2 plan.
MAYOR VORESS: Right.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. ROBERTS: But give them the
opportunity to make reasonable modifications.
MAYOR VORESS: That's correct.
MR. ROBERTS: And I said to the
Court there is absolutely no law that allows me
to do that, but he went in and did it anyway.
And the reason is because we've known all along
they're not going to build the RPUD plan. I mean
it's just not -- it hasn't been financially
feasible or viable since 1982. Okay? So why did
they still want it in here? Okay? Two reasons.
One, to introduce confusion which gives them an
entre to the courts. Okay? And, two, to have
some leverage over you. Well, if you don't come
in and let me do something else, then I'll go
ahead and build this monstrosity, and I think
that's accentuated by the fact that they want
eighteen stories now with cracker box units.
MAYOR VORESS: That's correct.
MR. ROBERTS: Okay? In my living
with this thing over the years, it seemed to me
that what happened in 1980 is that they had an
approved plan for 840 units and they came into
the Commission as constituted at that time and
said, listen, I'm going to change this. Some
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
27
1 people I think said too bad, you're going to do
2 that. And I think the threat was on behalf of
3 Hoffman at that time and his cohorts that if you
4 don't let me change these things, I'll go ahead
5 and build this monstrosity that you don't want.
6 Okay? And I've got the developers and the banks
7 and everything and I'm ready to go. And as I
8 read some of the discussions at the meetings,
9 well, isn't it better to give him 620 than have
10 him build 840 even if it means changing things
11 around. And I think that's still some of the
12 psyche that's built into their suggested changes
13 here is that to me the best agreement you could
14 have is one that everybody understands, and if
15 you come in here and say in accordance with
16 either the RPUD plan or the parameters, okay,
17 then that gives them the alternative to go back
18 to a plan which, you know, is never going to be
19 built but just is leverage and creates
20 confusion. If you agree upon the parameters, the
21 parameters should be it.
22 MS. MARIANO: Any discussion on
23 that? Or any ideas on it?
24I MAYOR VORESS: I agree. I think we
25' ought to just stick with the RPUD.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. ROBERTS: The parameters you
mean.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: I guess we have to
clarify that before we can even move.
MR. ROBERTS: Right.
MS. MARIANO: In addition, I think
that would be an administrative nightmare for any
building department to have to go back and try to
figure out what exactly that RPUD really meant as
they come in bringing plans and being in
compliance with that plan so --
MR. RAND: Well, also the question
they bring in Section 163.3164 about which we
know nothing, and I think, Mrs. Mariano, you
provided us with a copy of that. Right?
MS. MARIANO: Yes.
MR. RAND: Which has some onerous
terms involved in it. Right?
MS. MARIANO: I think if you look
back at number one they wanted that and we
omitted it then because of the problems.
MR. ROBERTS: You know, to try to be
orderly about it, I mean what is the consensus of
the Commission about whether you want to stick
with the parameters or you want to give them the
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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alternative of the RPUD plan? Anybody in favor
of giving the alternative RPUD?
VICE MAYOR PAUL: No.
MR. RAND: Not me.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: The parameters
would have to be drawn as such that they are the
bible on construction.
MAYOR VORESS: I agree.
MR. ROBERTS: It is a very broad
range. I mean we're restricting them very
little, and I just can't see any reason why and
I'd like to hear the reason from them why.
Perhaps they'll convince us otherwise. There's
no reason to go back to that other plan.
MR. RAND: Right.
MR. ROBERTS: The next thing on
infrastructure, this has had a lot of
permutations over the years of what is meant by
infrastructure, and the original agreement that
they sent wanted the town to pay for all that
infrastructure to meet concurrency and
inconsistency within 270 days of the signing of
the agreement, and since we don't know what that
is, how can we commit to it? Now they want to
again put this in about relating to this statute,
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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and the statute says, which Mary Ann obtained, I
guess she gave you a copy of what public
facilities is.
MR. RAND: Yes.
MR. ROBERTS: Means major capital
improvements including but not limited to
transportation, sanitary sewers, solid waste,
drainage, potable water, educational.
Educational, I mean there are no educational
facilities here in the town, but if they build
something that perhaps requires it, then, you
know, where does that put you? I think it's one
of these things that it doesn't give you any
definition at all and you don't really know what
you're committing to by that. I think the
concept originally in the settlement was is that
we had at one time complained of the inability to
provide water and sewer hook-ups.
MAYOR VORESS: That's correct.
MR. ROBERTS: Throughout the course
of the litigation they were concerned about that
and we met that concern by saying that your time
can be delayed if that's ever going to happen.
We don't believe it's going to happen so it
really doesn't mean anything, but if in fact it
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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did come down to the town and only the town being
unable to provide that because as I'm sure you're
all aware over the years that the water
management district or whoever it is above us
can, you know, cut off the spigot and there's
nothing you can do about it, and we certainly
didn't want to have to pay money because of that,
and that kind of ties over into this other
section that they want about anybody who stops or
slows them you pay them money, and that's why you
don't want to do that because you don't know what
these other people are going to do.
MR. RAND: Furthermore, this is a
Florida statute. It's not a town ordinance.
MR. ROBERTS: Right.
MR. RAND: And it could be subject
to change.
MR. ROBERTS: Absolutely.
MAYOR VORESS: Okay. Well, I don't
think we ought to -- it said it's not limited to,
so, you know, that's a wide open door. And I
think we ought to fight that issue.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Perhaps they can
specify Exactly what they mean or what do they
want out of that.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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VICE MAYOR PAUL: We'd prefer to
MAYOR VORESS: Water and sewer.
MR. RAND: That's basically the only
problem we see and we're giving them -- the
cutoff is going to be extended as a result
thereof, but to get involved in the other thing
that they suggest here as defined in Section
163.3164, we have no control over those things.
MS. MARIANO: Well, I think the
other thing that you need to look at is the worst
case scenario. The worst case scenario the way
they drew it up if they went back to the RPUD if
they get their building parameters and if they
have someone -- if they go out and get somebody
to develop under what they see here in eighteen
stories with little cracker box apartments is
right now and I don't think anyone -- we don't
have any need for some of the infrastructure. We
don't come within that under the state
requirements, but if they would build something
like that, for instance, and they became rentals
and attracted a lot of families because of the
size is small and certainly they're not going to
rent for much and they get a different -- if we
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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get different demographics on that property --
MR. RAND: That's what you're going
to get.
MS. MARIANO: Our needs may be
different and our requirements may be different
when it comes to transportation and education and
health systems. Then we may have to look at
things under our current demographics we don't
have to look at.
MR. RAND: Right.
MR. EYPEL: True.
MR. RAND: Okay.
MR. ROBERTS: The next one is on
page eight.
MR. RAND: Yes.
MAYOR VORESS: I didn't see any
substantial difference from what they suggested
to what we had. I think it's just a matter of
delineating what the cutoff date means, so I
don't -- you know.
MR. RAND: Where are we now?
MR. ROBERTS: Page eight.
MAYOR VORESS: They cut off only the
explanation.
MR. ROBERTS: They say only to
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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development that has not occurred prior to the
cutoff date, and there is a definition of when
something occurred in here. It occurs --
MR. RAND: Why would occurred be in
quotation marks, Rusty?
MR. ROBERTS: Well, it's because
over on page six attached hereto and made a part
hereof as long as development "occurs" prior to a
date ten years after the order date provided.
And then on page seven, for the purpose of
determining when such development has "occurred",
so long as an application has been made for a
permit for the construction of every unit on or
before the cutoff date, the time limitation set
forth in this paragraph shall be deemed
satisfied. That means as long as they've got
their permits pulled by the cutoff date, they can
complete -- there is provision here that permits
shall have the duration specified in the town
building code so they can go forever. But that's
always a knotty problem on any cutoff date is
when it happens because I mean you could
rationally see if it was just an absolute date of
ten years which was in the previous ordinance.
MR. RAND: You don't see any
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. ROBERTS: What happens if you
got the building half up and you go, oop, ten
years is up, sorry, you've got to stop here or
destroy it. So I don't -- what we're talking
here on page eight is that when it ends and
the -- any land development regulations can be
passed; however, they don't apply to that
development, only to the development that has not
occurred prior to the cutoff date which means it
applies to anything that has not pulled a
permit.
MR. RAND: Okay. Do you see any
that? Any consideration of the
MR. ROBERTS: Yes, I do. What this
goes back into, again the litigation, one of the
claims that they made in the litigation about
Ordinance 282 was that any cutoff date such as
the ten years in Ordinance 282 is
unconstitutional, that it was a limitation on
their rights that had no rational basis
especially when they made the argument, although
the ordinance didn't provide that it went back to
the original zoning, so in doing this agreement
MUDRICI£, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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and the previous agreement I wanted to make sure
that they waived any of those arguments in the
future because we're again having a cutoff date.
I don't think cutoff dates are unconstitutional
as long -- because there's time limitations on
all of them just inherently. You can change it
at any time as long as you have a good reason, so
we're just giving them something more than what
other people would get. So the ten years it
would go to what the zoning was on that -- in
that district at the time of the ten years, but I
want to make sure for your protection.
The problem here is that they want
to make that waiver only good if you fully comply
with the stipulation. Okay? And so that leaves
them the out that, well, they didn't comply so
now I can argue that the cutoff date is invalid
and unconstitutional, and, pardon my French,
that's bullshit. You know, the consideration is
entering into this agreement, and one of the
considerations is you wait -- we're entering into
this agreements at this time and it's got a
cutoff date, that's the consideration of this
time, not our future compliance with the
stipulation. That just leaves them -- I think
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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the general comment can be made about most of
their suggested changes is that they want to
leave themselves a door open to go back in court
and relitigate this.
MR. EYPEL: So, Rusty, we want to
strike that? We do not want that sentence?
MR. ROBERTS: Right.
MS. MARIANO: They can do this at
any time in the next ten years. It can be nine
and a half years and they can come back and say
you didn't comply with something and go back to
court.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: Through the years
way, way back this has been our stumbling block
all along is continuing throwing in these things
that they can come back for a second bite of the
apple if somebody blinks wrong.
MR. ROBERTS: Right. See, what I'm
saying here on page ten, they didn't change
paragraph 5a which says, "(except for that
portion thereof owned by others, to wit: the
south seven acres)." So I mean they can't be
real strong on that issue if they didn't catch
that one either.
MR. RAND: Wait a minute. We're on
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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"a" 5a?
MR. ROBERTS: 5a on page ten.
There's no change there. That's what I'm
pointing out. See right there? The third line
down.
MAYOR VORESS: That's the start of
it.
MR. ROBERTS: Right there it says to
wit.
MR. RAND: "To wit: the south seven
acres."
MR. ROBERTS: "Portion thereof owned
by others, to wit: the south seven acres."
MR. RAND: "As amended by the terms
hereof."
MR. ROBERTS: Do you see what I'm
saying?
MR. RAND: Yes.
MR. ROBERTS: They didn't suggest
that you change so why should we change the first
part where it says this doesn't apply to
Hoffman's property.
MR. RAND: Okay.
MAYOR VORESS: Well, the layered
thing is where they're trying to excuse
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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themselves from complying with the codes and
ordinances. That's no good, Rusty. To the
extent they do not conflict with the development
parameters or the terms of the stipulation.
MR. ROBERTS: See, the plan here,
going back to page ten, paragraph 5a, I thought
it was important to them to have a continuous
thing of the RPUD site plan for their concurrency
and consistency problem, but I wanted them to be,
which they agreed to, is that these parameters
amend the RPUD site plan. This becomes the RPUD
site plan.
MAYOR VORESS: Yes.
MR. ROBERTS: Okay? And I mean if
they don't have a concern about there being a
continuity, then, fine, just forget about it, but
to the extent that there should be a continuity
for their problems with anybody else in the
state, this takes the place of the RPUD site
plan, but the critical phrase there is takes the
place.
MAYOR VORESS: Okay.
MR. ROBERTS: Okay? Again, over on
page eleven, we've gone to great lengths here to
say what specific codes would be applicable, and
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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it's the Standard Building Code.
MAYOR VORESS: That's right.
MR. ROBERTS: With county -wide
amendments in effect at the time and Xeriscape
Ordinances and Life Safety Codes in effect at the
time the permit is drawn. Now, they say to the
-- they want to say that if there is a conflict
that the development parameters take precedence.
MAYOR VORESS: And that can't be.
We can't do that.
MR. ROBERTS: If there is a conflict
between the two, then clearly the Standard
Building Code --
MAYOR VORESS: Has got to take
precedence.
MR. ROBERTS: -- has got to take
precedence. I can't envision what it is, quite
frankly, but if there is a conflict you
definitely need the Standard Building Code to
take precedence.
MAYOR VORESS: We're going to have
continuing tightening of those with hurricanes
and all of those sorts of thing.
MR. ROBERTS: If you know something
violates the code.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MS. MARIANO: We also have the
coastal construction code on that side, the east
side.
MR. RAND: Rusty, on page eleven
they did add up on the third line, I'm sorry,
about three, six, nine lines down they added the
word specifically, "that are specifically
applicable."
MR. ROBERTS: I didn't have a
problem with that because that's in other places,
too.
MR. RAND: That's okay? But then
they deleted -- four lines further down they
deleted "of the entire property."
MAYOR VORESS: That's correct, they
did.
MR. RAND: "May be built so long as
the development of the entire property."
According to my checking they have omitted that.
MR. ROBERTS: Where is that?
MR. RAND: That's in the middle of
page eleven. You see where it says, "wherein any
residential construction and related amenities
may be built so long as the development" -- they
have eliminated the phrase "of the entire
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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property". You see where it is?
MS. MARIANO: That's right. Yes,
they eliminated that.
MR. RAND: They've taken that out.
MAYOR VORESS: They took that whole
thing out.
MR. RAND: And I don't know whether
that is that significant.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, you know, again
the --
MR. RAND: Why would that be?
Because we're talking about the entire property.
MR. ROBERTS: I don't know why
they've taken it out other than trying to get
more units in than that's there. I mean they are
again trying to assert any confusion and say that
there should be more when you're talking about
the RPUD plan 620, and that's why we meant
there --
MR. RAND: So we should question
that?
MR. ROBERTS: Absolutely. Because
in your building parameters I think it's pretty
clear which they didn't --
MAYOR VORESS: That's correct.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. ROBERTS: They didn't change.
The total number of dwelling units on the
property or any subdivision thereof shall not
exceed 427.
MR. RAND: Right.
MR. ROBERTS: So I mean --
MAYOR VORESS: They just took that
sentence out of the entire -- part of the
sentence.
MR. RAND: They removed "of the
entire property."
MR. ROBERTS: I don't know why
unless it's to create confusion because it's
clear on the other one so that's why I said --
MAYOR VORESS: They'll put it back
in.
MR. RAND: Put it back in or have
them explain why it's amended.
MR. ROBERTS: Right.
MS. MARIANO: Are we taking out the
bottom of eleven?
MR. ROBERTS:
that.
MAYOR VORESS:
MS. MARIANO:
Right. I said no to
No.
Okay.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. RAND: Okay.
MS. MARIANO: Maybe we need to come
back to this page, to twelve.
I already talked to the Mayor.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: Thank you.
MR. ROBERTS: So nobody gets upset
about this, the note said, "Mary Ann, don't want
to get locked in again by post office like we did
last time."
MS. MARIANO: Yeah.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: That was from the
Vice Mayor.
MAYOR VORESS: The doors of the
building locked is what that relates to.
MR. ROBERTS: Okay. You want to
come back to the money?
MR. RAND: Yes, I would come back to
the money later on.
MR. ROBERTS: Let's do that.
MR. RAND: That's obviously --
MR. ROBERTS: Paragraph seven is the
impact fees and they consistently want to put in
$1,300 a unit.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: Where does that
come from? It's $1,400 a unit just for water and
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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sewer hook-up per unit in 185.
MR. RAND: We're going on the basis
of the fees in existence at the time of July
185. Right? Whatever the fees were. But
there's no way that you can determine whether
it's 1,300, 1,500 or 1,800. How the hell do we
know what it is?
MS. MARIANO: Well, I went back to
the 185 fees and we did a study on what they
would be.
MR. RAND: Right.
MS. MARIANO: And approximately
under 185 fees for 427 units the fees would total
1.245986. $1,245,986.
MR. RAND: Right.
MS. MARIANO: Under their scenario
their fees are going to total $555,000.
MR. RAND: So the question where the
hell did they come up with this figure. And it
shouldn't be mentioned. It's the fees in
existence at the time, period. That's what the
court ordered and that's what we agreed to.
MS. MARIANO: Because electrical
fees and plumbing fees are based on units, how
many drops they have, how many plumbing fixtures.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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You can't determine that, but it's obviously more
than 1,300 a unit, as the Vice Mayor said. In
1985 the connection fees alone for water and
sewer were 1,400 without any others.
MAYOR VORESS: Let's drop that out.
MR. RAND: There's no need for it.
MR. ROBERTS: All right. Page 13 in
the approval procedures is what I talked about
before, and I had just -- I don't know if it's on
your copy or not. Yes, what's in all caps is
just what I kind of --
MR. RAND: This is Rusty's -- this
is your recommendation.
MR. ROBERTS: Right.
MR. RAND: That would follow "and,
if so approved and executed, which must occur
within ten days of approval by the town, and the
town be notified of approval and execution in
writing" -- I'm just repeating what our attorney
has suggested on page 13 at the bottom. I'm just
curious to know just where it would appear. In
other words, it would be after "if so approved
and executed" and then this sentence would
follow.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, I just -- yes,
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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it will be in there somewhere. Syntax wise it's
not in final form.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: Do you want to put
business days or let them come up with that?
MR. ROBERTS: However. I'm just
picking it -- the thought is there and the
language is not in final form, but before we go
to that, you know, whatever is -- I think this is
a -- if the concept's approved, then we'll have
no problem with the language on this.
MR. RAND: Let them decide whether
it's calendar or business days.
MAYOR VORESS: Let's talk about that
in this sense. We will file for court order, as
I understand it, when both parties sign some
piece of paper or papers. Right?
MR. ROBERTS: The settlement
stipulation.
MAYOR VORESS: Yes. And that will
occur only after this action takes place, in
other words, within the ten days.
MR. ROBERTS: Right.
MAYOR VORESS: Within the ten days
we will have signed something, they will have
signed something with the authority to sign it,
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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and then the settlement stipulation will go to
the court, yes or no.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, as the way I
envision the procedure being here from the
document is that essentially you'd have to have
an agreement in principle by you all to start
with to present this to the public and then
present it to the public and then take a vote on
it.
MAYOR VORESS:
MR. ROBERTS:
If it got voted up --
MAYOR VORESS:
MR. ROBERTS:
to them that it's signed.
MAYOR VORESS:
court --
then.
Vote it up or down.
Vote it up or down.
Right.
-- then it's submitted
Okay?
And then it goes to
MR. ROBERTS: No, it goes to RTC
MAYOR VORESS: Yes.
MR. ROBERTS: All right? And they
sign it. And that's the ten-day period because
if we just, as I said before, signed it and sent
it to them with no time limit on it --
MAYOR VORESS: I understand.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. ROBERTS: -- they could just sit
MR. RAND: Right.
MR. ROBERTS: All right? They get
it. They have ten days, if they sign it in ten
days and send you back the signed agreement and
sufficient authority documents to show that the
person who signed it is authorized to sign it,
then thereafter it is submitted along with the --
MAYOR VORESS: There are several
exhibits that need to be signed and then
submitted to the Court. Correct?
MR. ROBERTS: Absolutely. What
would happen first then would be then a motion
for relinquishment of jurisdiction would be
submitted to the appellate court to relinquish
jurisdiction but not to dismiss the appeal.
MAYOR VORESS: I see.
MR. ROBERTS: Okay? And we'll get
to that later. I did not agree to that change
because -- and I checked with Sam on this, if we
sat up there and said here's a stipulation to
relinquish jurisdiction and dismiss the appeal,
the Court would then dismiss the appeal and what
that would mean then is that the original
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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judgment would then be in full force and effect.
Okay? And if they back out of it, you're sunk.
Okay? If they find some pigeonhole. So we're
not going to do that. We're going to go back to
the District Court then, we wait till they
relinquish jurisdiction, then you go back to the
District Court and present your joint motion for
entry of order of the settlement stipulation
along with the satisfaction of judgment, and the
Court, you know, either signs them and sends them
back to you and sets a hearing or whatever to
make sure that everything is kosher, signs it and
once that's done, then the appeal will be
dismissed and the Court will notify everyone
involved -- once that order is entered which will
approve this settlement stipulation and that
becomes -- the settlement stipulation becomes an
order of the Court, then the appeal will be
dismissed and that will take the place of
anything that's gone on before. Okay?
And I again dispute and suggest that
you not agree to their change about it simply
takes the place of. Okay?
MAYOR VORESS: Right.
MR. ROBERTS: It's really kind of a
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
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semantic, but I want to be crystal clear that
there's going to be no reference to anything
that's gone on before. Okay? Because again,
when you do a settlement agreement like this,
this is the document that controls your
relationship, nothing that's happened before, and
that's why I specifically wanted a satisfaction
of all those previous orders and judgments so
that realtors in town are satisfied and the
lawyers in town are satisfied that that's clear
as a matter of record that there are no
outstanding judgments against the town, that the
town has either paid the money or made provision
therefor, however the case may be, and that the
only thing that the town's obligation is just to
live up to their obligations under the
agreement.
MAYOR VORESS: Okay.
MS. MARIANO: I have a question with
regard to that because it seems like there's
almost a catch 22. Because, now, they -- and
we'll get to it in here, but they have said they
will not sign the satisfaction of judgment or the
releases that should be entered with this for the
court order until they get their money, and we
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
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may not be able to get money because of the
constitutional issues without it being an order.
You know, because Mr. Schoech has said if the
Court enters it as an order, if it's beyond the
2.5 million dollars, then we can go -- we don't
have to abide by the referendum issues, but if
they won't sign the things we need to submit the
order until they get the money, there seems
almost to be a catch 22. I don't know how we
work that out, but we need to figure that out.
MAYOR VORESS: We can ask them to
loan us the money interest free for a while.
It's simple to do that.
MR. RAND: If they insist on that,
then it will be an agreement that you lend us the
money and we'll repay you within a period of six
months interest free if that's what they insist
on, but I don't think they will. I think we
ought to insist that this has to be done after --
that the money will be paid within the time frame
indicated after this agreement is signed by both
parties. How the hell can we get the money?
First of all, if it's five million dollars, we
don't have five million dollars, so how the hell
can we pay five million dollars at the time of
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
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signing this agreement? We don't have that kind
of money. It's going to take us time.
MS. MARIANO: But what I'm saying
even if they loan it to us, they are still an
entity that we're borrowing -- even if it's them,
if they're an entity we're borrowing from and
under the Constitution we can't borrow from a
bank, from a bonding company or from the federal
government money that is required to be paid out
with tax dollars which this has to be somehow or
another --
MR. RAND: At one point in time.
MS. MARIANO: -- at one point in
time, what makes them different than Barnett or
anybody else who's willing to loan us money if
there's a catch. I mean we have to have the
order.
MR. RAND: Yes. Okay. Well, I
think that we ought to explain to them that it
can't be done, otherwise we'll have to go the
referendum route which I'll tell them that in
which case it will delay the execution and
completion of this agreement. I'd tell them
point blank.
MS. MARIANO: Assuming a referendum
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
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MR. RAND: Yes. And again assuming
the referendum would pass.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, again, number
one, as far as their suggested language doesn't
take into comprehension what the town can and
cannot do.
MAYOR VORESS: That's correct.
MR. ROBERTS: I mean that is part
and parcel to their other provisions that you
said 5.5 million by federal wire transfer which
cannot be done either. So I'm not as concerned
about that, but, again, it's the principle
involved. The principle is you sign the
agreement and everything in the past is a done
deal and we're not going back to that and you're
not going to hold this over our head. We got a
new agreement. We have agreed that that order
will be an order of the Court, order and judgment
of the Court, and if there's a time period paid
out, let's say, for instance, we're going to pay
so much now and so much over three years, you've
got a judgment of a court requiring us to pay
that. And that should be sufficient for anybody
to -- if we don't pay it on that day, and that's
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
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why I put in the provision, if we don't pay it,
you simply file a motion to enforce and do
whatever in the court. Okay? And that's going
to be no different, and you may recall when we
had that discussion up at the Hilton and they sat
there and said I want this money and said you are
no worse off by doing this than you would be with
these satisfactions hanging over your head. In
either instance you've got to go back to court.
MAYOR VORESS: Well, we can discuss
MR. ROBERTS: Sure.
MR. RAND: I think we should be open
and honest with them, just tell them that
obviously you're not aware of the modus operandi
involving our making of the payment of the funds
as may be agreed upon here in that we may have to
go the referendum route depending on how this
thing is agreed upon. We must have a court order
in order to avoid the necessity of a referendum,
in which case we can pay you promptly, promptly
being within the time frame that we indicated, a
certain amount within a certain amount of time
and the balance within ninety days or one hundred
twenty days, in which case we don't run afoul of
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
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the statute as mentioned by Schoech. Because as
long as we're borrowing money for a period less
than eleven months we don't need a referendum.
We do need a court order. That is a condition
MS. MARIANO: I think they've been
advised of that and chose to ignore it.
MR. RAND: I think we ought to
remind them that there's no sense in kidding
yourself. We just can't do it. We don't have
five million dollars available that we can give
you at the time we sign this. It is a physical
impossibility.
MAYOR VORESS: Well, we'll carry on
this conversation. Let's move along.
MR. RAND: Now, page fourteen,
Rusty, number nine on the bottom they've added
the word promptly on the fourth line from the
bottom. You don't have that in yours. It
doesn't make much difference. It just says will
promptly make the appropriate changes. The
fourth line from the bottom on page fourteen.
You see, "Upon completion of the required
amendment or any such other amendment, the town
will" and add the word promptly.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
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MAYOR VORESS: Right.
MR. ROBERTS: The town will
promptly.
MR. RAND: Promptly make the
appropriate changes. They've added that word
in.
MR. ROBERTS: Okay.
MAYOR VORESS: This next one, that's
a major change. What is your assessment here,
Rusty, in general? Are they saying basically
with all of this information they'll go back to
the Court and open up the eighteen million dollar
argument again?
MR. ROBERTS: Sure.
MAYOR VORESS: That's basically what
they're saying, is it not?
MR. ROBERTS: If any of the town
officials, employees, departments or agents have
taken any action which has materially impeded,
interfered, impaired, stopped, that should be
comma there, or slowed development of the
property, okay, I'm entitled to go back and
pursue any remedy --
MAYOR VORESS: That's correct.
MR. ROBERTS: -- I want which would
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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mean back to square one.
MR. ROBERTS: That's right. That's
what that says.
MS. MARIANO: And I think officials
and the town, like you had had, if the defendant
does it, what this says literally is that if Lee
Leffingwell or Ethel does something and they feel
they've been slowed down, they could go to court
rather than say -- come to the Commission and say
we've been slowed down by your building
department, what are you going to do about it and
we can handle it, they don't even have to do
that. They can go straight to court if they
don't like what Ethel did or don't like what Lee
does or what I do or an agent. If one of our
contracted inspectors are out there and it slows
them down -- so this is really too open.
MR. RAND: Well, first of all, any
official can't adopt an ordinance. Okay? That's
number one.
that get us.
action."
MS. MARIANO: It's the next words
MR. ROBERTS: It says "or take any
MS. MARIANO: Any action.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
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MR. RAND: Or take any action, but
it's not any one official. No one official has
the authority to take any such action.
MS. MARIANO: Sure, if a plumber
goes out there and a plumbing inspector says all
your pipes are wrong and stops the job and makes
them redo it and it takes them three months,
they're going to say they slowed us down, they
impeded us. Or if Lee goes out there or if Ethel
says, I'm sorry, it's going to take the building
official a month to review these plans for
eighteen stories or whatever we wind up agreeing
to, they can say that somebody, an employee
slowed them down. That's what this says
literally.
MR. RAND: It's absurd. There's no
question about it. It's not something that can
be --
MR. ROBERTS: Or something like a
Mayor writing a letter.
MAYOR VORESS: Sure.
MR. RAND: I think we should go back
to what we said originally.
MAYOR VORESS: Well, this piece in
my opinion is written entirely by Judith
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
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Thomsen. That's been her point all along. And I
think she's going to be here today so that's why
we need to talk to her.
MR. RAND: If there's a default
under the agreement, our original proposal
indicated that they had relief that they could go
to the magistrate who has the power to order
mandatory injunctive relief to specifically
enforce this settlement. Okay? So they can sue
on the basis of the settlement, but the
implication here is that if there's any
non-compliance with this that they could reopen
any other judgment despite the fact that they're
agreeing in the earlier part of the thing that
they're agreeing to waive or relinquish any other
judgment that has been rendered. So what's the
point?
MR. ROBERTS: It wouldn't be much of
a leap for them to go in and say, listen, you
know, these people agreed to settle this case and
now they're screwing it up again, Judge, all you
have to do is look back at what the previous
judgment I had. And now all I'm asking for you
is just to re -adopt that previous judgment
because they've breached the agreement.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
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MAYOR VORESS: And that's exactly
what this piece says. And she's the one that
initiated it.
MS. MARIANO: Interestingly this
came up when we were in West Palm Beach and they
took it out and now they put it back in.
MR. RAND: Let's tell them that it's
unacceptable. That's all. There's no need for
it.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, they took out
the part that, you know --
MR. RAND: The 1,000.
MR. ROBERTS: That directly said
they went back to the judgment and now they're
just doing it indirectly.
MAYOR VORESS: This is
unacceptable.
MR. RAND: Okay.
MAYOR VORESS: Or other
constraints.
MR. RAND: What is other
constraints? I don't understand that.
MR. ROBERTS: I don't either.
MAYOR VORESS: I don't know what
that means.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
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MR. RAND: So we need to question
that.
MR. ROBERTS:
could that include taxes.
MAYOR VORESS:
wide open comment.
MR. ROBERTS:
taxing them?
ambiguous.
on?
prohibitions.
I put a note here,
Yes, that's just a
Would that include
MR. RAND: It's too vague, too
MAYOR VORESS: Yes.
MR. EYPEL: What page is that
MR. RAND: Page 17 at the top of the
MR. EYPEL: Right.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: Did we skip over
page sixteen or there's nothing to do there?
MR. RAND: Nothing to do there.
MAYOR VORESS: There's nothing
there.
MS. MARIANO: That was all part of
the remedy discussion from the previous one.
MAYOR VORESS: The next thing gets
under here under releases.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
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MR. RAND: That's page nineteen is
the next one.
MAYOR VORESS: Here it is.
MS. MARIANO: This is where I
thought there was a catch.
MR. RAND: Yeah, this is out.
MAYOR VORESS: Yeah, this is
where -- effective on the order date and they're
talking about stipulation and payment.
MR. RAND: Yes. We can't make the
payment until we get the order. That's the whole
theme of the whole process and I think we ought
to be open and above board and explain why it has
to be done that way. I would tell them point
blank why it has to be this way. What difference
does it make to you? You've got a binding
agreement. All we're asking the Court is to
approve this for purposes of withdrawing all of
the judgments in the appeal process. That's the
purpose of the court order.
MS. MARIANO: Well, you know, even
let's say we don't have to borrow two cents, even
if in the best case scenario they would agree to
our 2.5, we couldn't do it directly.
MR. RAND: Exactly.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
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MS. MARIANO: Because we would have
to amend the budget, so even in the best case
this would not be applicable to what we can do.
MR. RAND: Okay. So it's got to
be on the order date as we had indicated. Now,
by all parties. I don't know where that comes
from.
MR. ROBERTS: That's another one of
my additions there.
MR. RAND: Oh, that's your
addition.
MS. MARIANO: That goes back to the
point you made before that everybody has to sign
it.
MR. ROBERTS: Within three days of
execution of this agreement by all parties the
parties shall file a joint motion.
MR. RAND: Okay.
MAYOR VORESS: I believe they said
dismissal of appeals in their piece there. You
said for relinquishment of jurisdiction, and I
believe they had a dismissal of appeals is what
they had, Rusty.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, they didn't
change it in this part. They just changed it on
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
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the exhibit.
MAYOR VORESS: I thought I saw
something -- well, I thought I saw a piece in
this piece here.
MS. MARIANO: Yes, they did change
it, Rusty, here.
MAYOR VORESS:
Rusty.
MS. MARIANO:
dismissal of appeals.
MAYOR VORESS:
Yes, they changed it,
Within three days for
Yeah, they said
dismissal of appeals.
MS. MARIANO: That's what we said
before we were not going to do.
MAYOR VORESS: That's what they said
in this here. That's in their red line section.
MR. ROBERTS: That's a page I didn't
get. That's why. I only got up to page
fifteen.
MAYOR VORESS: Okay. They said
dismissal of appeals in their piece.
MR. RAND: Are we ready for -- on
page 22 they're adding in now as a signatory
Sentinel Communities.
MR. ROBERTS: That's fine. I don't
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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care.
MR. RAND: Is that no problem? But
then if they're going to request Sentinel
Communities, why don't we insist that our insurer
also sign the agreement?
MR. ROBERTS: You know, it doesn't
hurt you. It doesn't affect you one way or the
other who signs on their behalf.
MR. RAND: So you don't think that's
any problem. Okay.
MR. ROBERTS: They apparently have
some reason that they want to continue the
fiction that there is such an entity as Sentinel
Communities.
MS. MARIANO: Well, Mr. Ruggieri
wants to come to Highland Beach again.
MR. ROBERTS: Everything that
they've ever signed was signed by Jay Hambric or
somebody else from RTC. There never has been
such a company so if they want to continue --
MR. RAND: But the only thing is in
the beginning they say plaintiffs, Resolution
Trust as receiver of Broadview Federal Savings
and Sentinel Communities. So they're acting on
behalf -- as receiver of Broadview and Sentinel,
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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so why does Sentinel have to sign it?
MR. ROBERTS: I don't know.
MR. RAND: But you don't see any
problem with that.
MR. ROBERTS: No.
MR. RAND: Do you think then if they
insist on this that we ought to insist that our
insurer sign this or --
VICE MAYOR PAUL: No.
MAYOR VORESS: No. The Exhibit B I
think is the next one we're going to, is that
right, development parameters?
MR. RAND: I got Exhibit 1 as the
next one.
MR. ROBERTS: In Exhibit 1 is the
next thing and the only thing that I noticed
that's changed is the last sentence. They didn't
change anything. It should be specifically
excluded therefrom rather than specifically
excluded from.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: What's Exhibit 1?
MR. ROBERTS: That's the property
description. I didn't have that --
MR. RAND: I don't think you have
that here.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MS. MARIANO: It's on the copy that
you received Saturday that was delivered to you.
It was in that one.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: All right.
MR. ROBERTS: They didn't make any
changes in that, I don't think. The only thing I
had to change, again reading over, is the last
sentence, I mean the last paragraph, it should be
"specifically excluded therefrom" rather than
just "from".
MR. RAND: Specifically excluded
therefrom?
MR. ROBERTS: Therefrom.
MAYOR VORESS: Okay.
MR. RAND: That's all the more
reason why they shouldn't object to that.
MR. ROBERTS: I went back and when
I -- the reason I did this I was unsure as to
what the description of the property was, and I
went back to our expert Mr. Groover's work and
this is the description he came up for the
property, and I talked to him and he roughed it
out and that's the property that we're talking
about. If it adds together with the oceanfront
parcel and excludes which contains 17 acres more
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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E.
or less and excludes the south three hundred feet
which was the Hoffman place.
MR. RAND: Now we go to Exhibit A or
Exhibit B?
MR. ROBERTS: Exhibit A there was
one change --
MR. RAND: The settlement
stipulation --
MR. ROBERTS: I mean I don't really
have a real big problem with that, but the
difficulty is that perhaps they just didn't
understand this is that the settlement
stipulation --
MR. RAND: It's on the second pace
of Exhibit A.
MS. MARIANO: It's behind the
parameters, Commissioner.
MAYOR VORESS: It's page nineteen on
the document we got from RTC.
MS. MARIANO: It's out of order.
It's behind B.
MR. RAND: Exhibit B comes first and
then Exhibit A. They have it in the wrong
order.
MS. MARIANO: Exhibit B is three
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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pages and the fourth page you'll see it starts
Exhibit A.
MR. EYPEL: Yes.
MR. RAND: So you don't see any
problem with adding of the settlement
stipulation?
MR. ROBERTS: Well, I just, quite
frankly, think it hurts them because the input of
this order is that that settlement stipulation is
an order of this court and the courts always
retain jurisdiction to enforce their orders,
but --
MR. AUGENSTEIN: They have that
1,300 a unit again on B.
MR. RAND: Well, there's a lot of
things in B. They eliminated as per the ACOE
permit.
MAYOR VORESS: What is ACOE, Mary
Ann?
MS. MARIANO: Army Corps of
Engineers.
MR. RAND: What are your views on
that, Rusty, on Exhibit B?
MR. ROBERTS: The first thing is
they've changed up at the top in the small --
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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they said "are the rights and restrictions" and I
don't have any problem with that. We put "per
previous ACOE permit" in there simply because
that's something that we knew, and I don't know
what sort of issue that is any more, quite
frankly. You would know better than I of whether
that's something that concerns you or not as to
the number of docks that they can put in there or
the number of marina and seawalls.
MS. MARIANO: I like the fact that
they took it out because I think they'll get less
permits now than they ever had previously because
of the environmental issues between then and now,
so I like the fact that they took that out
because they'll get less now, I believe, than
what they could have ever had before, so I would
say fine with us that they took it out, leave it
out.
MR. ROBERTS: I mean --
MR. RAND: But isn't an ACOE permit
MS. MARIANO: They will have to
resubmit under the new -- if they don't have
anything -- and, see, this technically I don't
think that if -- even if this was in here, I
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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think if the permits have lapsed and they are not
meeting the requirements or complying with the
ACOE regulations today, I think our hands would
be tied because they would not be able to do it
regardless. We can't tell them to do something
that the ACOE is not going to allow them to do,
so, I don't think this makes a difference. I
think they would have had to resubmit everything
anyway and I think they'll get less because the
requirements are greater now.
MR. RAND: So you don't see any
problem with that.
MS. MARIANO: I don't see any
problem with that. I think that's beneficial to
US.
MR. EYPEL: Mary Ann, under Exhibit
B. 2(c), they have asked -- I assume the bold
type is the RTC's request, roadways, parking
areas, pools, tennis courts, shuffleboard courts
and other structures which do not constitute a
building are not subject to this setback
requirement and may be built within the setback.
As I recall, this could deal directly with the
property on the ocean.
MS. MARIANO: Yes.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. EYPEL: If they wanted to put a
shuffleboard court or a swimming pool right up
against Mrs. Winn's property line, they very well
could do that.
MAYOR VORESS: That's correct. We
just got her letter.
Mr. EYPEL: Yes. I don't know. Is
that something we would want to agree to? I
don't see how we could allow them --
MAYOR VORESS: They can't put -- we
can't agree to putting anything in the setback.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: That's the whole
story of setbacks.
MR. RAND: That's the purpose of a
setback. Precisely.
MAYOR VORESS: But in A, Arthur,
they want to go from sixteen stories to eighteen
stories and they want to go from a ten foot to a
twelve foot.
MR. RAND: Right.
MAYOR VORESS: That's fifty some
feet to go up, like 56 feet, and then they don't
want to include any air-conditioning units,
parapets or any other architectural things on the
top. So that takes them up to two sixteen plus
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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f eet .
MR. EYPEL: How many feet?
MAYOR VORESS: Two sixteen plus.
MR. RAND: Two hundred sixteen feet
on a basis of twelve feet per story as opposed to
ten. Okay?
MAYOR VORESS: And then they put
that on the top of the building on top of that.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: The parking stories
is no more than twelve feet. I don't think the
apartments are.
MR. ROBERTS: The way it's written
it could be either way.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: I read it one way.
MAYOR VORESS: I read they want
twelve feet on everything.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Twelve feet on each
apartment?
MR. RAND: Well, it could be. It
could be either way.
MR. AUGENSTEIN:
feet. That's ridiculous.
VICE MAYOR PAUL:
room ten by ten by twelve.
Then having 1,400
A funny little
MS. MARIANO: I think they mean it
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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for the whole building because if you look it
talks about more than ten feet or one hundred
sixty feet above the crown of the road. When we
did it we took the ten feet as meaning for all
sixteen stories. That's where the 160 came up.
They have not put any maximum height at all and
they just said up to twelve feet.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: I think we have to
address that.
MAYOR VORESS: Oh, yeah. And they
count everything. They say anything on top of
that is not counted. And none of our codes allow
that.
MS. MARIANO: Our codes do allow for
elevator and mechanical structures are not within
the height limitations. Not parapet walls or
architectural walls of parapets, but any of our
height limitations exclude rooftop structures
such as HVAC which is heating, air-conditioning
and elevators so that's okay.
MR. RAND: That part is okay.
MS. MARIANO: That part is okay
but --
MR. AUGENSTEIN: We have to clarify
the height of the apartments. I took it to mean
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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twelve feet for each parking story.
MS. MARIANO: Well, I think we need
to decide whether we -- regardless if it's ten
feet or twelve feet or five feet whether you want
to allow the eighteen stories versus the
sixteen.
MR. RAND: He admits that this was
never discussed before. It's a new -- it's a new
request as such, and I was uncomfortable with the
sixteen. Now they want to go to eighteen. And I
personally am opposed to it.
MS. MARIANO: Well, they also
mentioned in the letter that it certainly is
technically feasible for what we gave them to
begin with, and this is what they agreed to in
prior agreements was the sixteen stories. I mean
I don't think that's ever really been a big
contention. It's come up now.
MAYOR VORESS: Well, that together
with the fact they want to reduce substantially
the size of the units.
MR. RAND: The square footage,
that's another problem.
MAYOR VORESS: The square footage.
MR. RAND: That's out, too.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MAYOR VORESS: We're going to have a
situation here where we've got small places and
lots of people, and it's going to attract a
different kind of community here in the town than
we're looking for.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: The ordinance is
worse than our 1980 ordinances.
MAYOR VORESS: I'm opposed to it.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: We've got to
protect our neighborhood even though it's small,
and the biggest concern that's been voiced to me
all through all this is getting something with
little units and lots of people and destroying
the character there.
MR. RAND: Exactly.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Look what it will
do to the traffic too.
MR. RAND: Well, on B they've also
taken off the development of the parcel or
parcels east of us on A1A shall be limited to
three buildings no more than ten foot stories.
They've taken out the ten feet.
MR. ROBERTS: Correct.
MR. RAND: Which is also not
acceptable because you leave that out they can go
MUDRICI£, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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thirty feet. Who knows?
MS. MARIANO : If they put fifteen
foot ceilings they can go 45 in three stories.
MR. RAND: So I don't think that
should be allowed.
MAYOR VORESS: I don't either.
MR. RAND: They also on C they want
a thirty-foot setback instead of --
MAYOR VORESS: Forty.
MR. RAND: -- forty. Plus other
wording that they have which is unacceptable.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: They really cloud
that up.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: My objection when
their first settlement came and they more or less
said that the developer came in and could do
anything they wanted to with the property and in
effect they're trying to do that now by making
this specific so humongous that the guy can come
in and do anything he wants to again. I
personally can't go with any of this new heighth
or minimum floor space stuff.
MR. RAND: Definitely.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: I know we're
starting -- this is new but the -- our figures in
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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here, the fourteen, eighteen, et cetera, we put
in way back in discussion, I think it goes back
to the agreement and was agreed upon, I think
that was something we were in agreement with in
1991, and if I recall correctly, that's the
reason we put those in is to have a fairly good
sized, expensive development in that property.
MR. RAND: Right. You know, we
talked about 1,000 -feet bedrooms, you're talking
an apartment that might sell for sixty or seventy
thousand bucks. Okay? And I sure as hell
wouldn't want to have 160 units in the building
selling for that price.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: For those of you
that have been in my house, that would be -- you
could make that into a three-bedroom apartment
under what they're asking us for. Now, maybe you
could get a single bed into the bedrooms. I
don't know.
MR. RAND: Well, I think what we had
suggested 1,400, 1,600 and 1,800 is what we ought
to stick with. I think the 1,200, 1,400 is out
of the question. To me that would be a deal
breaker.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: And again we have
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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this 1,300 per unit appearing.
MR. RAND: That also is out and it's
got to be sixteen stories like we said, not
eighteen. And ten feet, not twelve feet.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Ten feet?
MR. RAND: Well, ten -feet stories,
not twelve -feet stories. They're asking for the
height to be twelve feet for each story as
opposed to ten.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Yes. Okay.
MR. RAND: Doesn't our code now
provide for ten -foot stories only?
MS. MARIANO: No, because our
code -- we go by overall height in our code. If
we say if you're in an RE zone or a residential
single-family zone, you have thirty feet so
whatever you do within that thirty feet is up to
you. If you want to make two fifteen -foot
stories or if you want to make three ten -foot.
MR. RAND: But the three buildings
under B where they want to eliminate ten feet, we
ought to eliminate that as well.
MS. MARIANO: We want to leave the
ten feet in.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Which one is that?
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. RAND: B. Item two. Height,
density and set -back, B. They have eliminated
the ten -foot limitation under 2 and we are saying
no. And C the setback also there has to be forty
feet.
MAYOR VORESS: Well, they also --
also in the code thing they've deleted or as
applicable to the development in ten and deleted
that sentence, too.
MR. ROBERTS: Where is that? I'm
sorry.
MAYOR VORESS: Under in seven,
Rusty, applicable town codes, you said
certificates of occupancy, development and impact
fees as adopted by the town or as applicable to
development in the town. They deleted as
applicable to development in town and just
deleted those words or as modified therein. That
piece.
MR. RAND: Yeah, they have taken
that out.
MAYOR VORESS: They've taken that
sentence out, that part of that sentence out.
MR. RAND: And I don't know why.
MAYOR VORESS: Do you see where that
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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is?
MR. RAND: Under item seven, Rusty.
MAYOR VORESS: Under item seven.
MS. MARIANO: You left it in yours.
MAYOR VORESS: You left it in yours,
but they took it out.
MR. ROBERTS: I was confused by what
that little thing meant there but I didn't --
MR. RAND: The bracket sign means --
MR. ROBERTS: The bracket means they
took out but I don't know what they took out.
MAYOR VORESS: That's what they took
out. They deleted those, one, two, three, four,
five, six, seven, eight words, nine words.
MR. RAND: And then the $1,300,
that's out.
MAYOR VORESS: The $1,300.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: That's out.
MR. RAND: Now we've got to go to
Exhibit D I think is the next one.
MR. ROBERTS: Before we leave that
there was a -- over on the first one the dune
walk -over structures, they had taken out to the
extent permitted by other agencies.
MR. RAND: Where is that, Rusty?
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. ROBERTS: Number one, amenities.
MR. RAND: Amenities.
MR. ROBERTS: It's not the top part,
it's number one, amenities.
MAYOR VORESS: Number one?
MR. RAND: Under Exhibit B, yeah.
MAYOR VORESS: Yeah, dune walk -over
structures.
MR. ROBERTS: After dune walk -over
structures add to the extent permitted by other
agencies, they took that out.
MR. RAND: The same reason as Mary
Ann has for ACOE maybe.
MR. ROBERTS: I don't know.
MR. RAND: Mary Ann?
MS. MARIANO: I don't think it makes
a difference.
MR. RAND: Okay.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: What do they mean
by a structure?
MR. ROBERTS: All right. So then
the forty -foot setback from State Road AlA.
MR. RAND: That stays.
MR. ROBERTS: Stays.
MR. RAND: Right?
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MAYOR VORESS: Yes.
MR. RAND: We all agree?
VICE MAYOR PAUL: Yes.
MR. ROBERTS: Set back from -- that
they could make roadways, parking areas, pools,
tennis courts, shuffleboard courts and other
structures which did not constitute --
VICE MAYOR PAUL: No way. No way.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Where are we now?
MAYOR VORESS: Rusty is just going
through what we don't agree with and that was in
section C under height, density setback.
MR. ROBERTS: I guess the -- if you
had a forty -foot setback from AlA, you'd have to
have a roadway through it.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Here it is. Okay.
That's out.
MS. MARIANO: With regard to that,
let's -- I mean that may be applicable on the
west, but on the east -- and I'm just saying
almost like cutting it in half, I don't know why
we would not be agreeable to thirty-foot setback
from AlA on the east. That's a narrower lot and
that's what a lot of the other homes have now. I
don't know that we need forty feet on the east.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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So we may be able to give them thirty feet.
MR. RAND: On the east.
MS. MARIANO: As a compromise. We
can give them a thirty-foot setback on the east
but forty on the west, so rather than tell them
we don't like the whole thing, I think the east
and west need to be treated differently when it
comes to an AlA setback based on what else we
have done in the town.
MR. RAND: That's a good
compromise.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: The compromise is a
minor one from what they're asking in here.
MR. RAND: You don't have Exhibit D
in here, Rusty.
MR. ROBERTS: I want to get this
here. They wanted to add roadways, parking
areas, pools, tennis courts, shuffleboard courts
and other structures which do not constitute
building are not subject to the setback, but may
be built within the setback.
MR. RAND: That's out.
MR. ROBERTS: Is out to everything
or is there just some things that's
objectionable?
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MS. MARIANO: Well, we should say
that all amenities and other structures because
there is a part in our code that allow pools in
some structures, screened -in porches to be within
setbacks. So we need to -- at least I think give
them the rights everybody else has. I mean I
don't want to take away rights that everybody
else has, and under the code the setbacks, with
regard to these I cannot say -- I don't think we
should say are not subject to this setback
requirement and may be built within the setback,
but I think that we could say those things shall
be subject to the amenities setback requirements
as per the code because the code does give you --
you can put a pool in a setback. You can put a
screened -in porch in a setback. Some of those
things you can put if it's not a permanent
structure. Some that they call expendable
structures are allowed to be within setbacks.
MR. RAND: Do you want to put in as
permitted by existing code? Would that be 1985
code or this code?
MS. MARIANO: I might be able to
MR. RAND: Would it be the 1985 code
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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then?
MS. MARIANO: No, I know in this
code we allow some --
MR. AUGENSTEIN: We must have it in
there because there's one in Boca High.
MR. MARIANO: That was done
separately with regard to zero lot.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: It was under a
settlement, right.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: I think your Boca
High settlement is one reason we ought to be very
careful on the settlement situation.
MR. ROBERTS: Can we take a brief
recess, Your Honor?
MAYOR VORESS: Okay.
(A brief recess is taken.)
MS. MARIANO: Okay. In looking at
this just, for instance, pools and pool decks,
swimming pools are allowed within ten feet of the
setback so I think we need to put a provision
that any amenities -- amenity buildings or
structures or the things they're talking about
shall be governed pursuant to the setback
requirements of the code. And we can explain to
them that some of these are more liberal than
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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2�
2�
even what they have in there, and we can read
them this, for instance, if they want to know
that. Because they're really tying their own
hands with that and we don't want that in there
the way it is, but we can say that we'll be
governed by existing code, the amenities only.
MR. ROBERTS: Why don't you just say
subject to a ten -foot setback requirement. I
think they might be somewhat skittish about
making reference to some code that can change.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: Change, yeah.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: But we can change
the code if we make a deal.
MR. RAND: It has to be the '85
code.
MR. ROBERTS: No, if you say it's
subject to the setback requirement of the town
code in effect at that time.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: At that time.
MR. ROBERTS: But I'd hate -- I
think it's much easier to just say right in here
then make it reference back to some code to
decide what that code means at the time so --
r
VICE MAYOR PAUL: Or just put in
i what's in our code now, not even reference the
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, NationsBank International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street Na1 Financial Plaza 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palrn Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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code.
MS. MARIANO: Or just say subject to
this setback -- are not subject to this setback
requirement and may be built within the setback
but in no event closer than ten feet to any
abutting property.
MR. RAND: Okay.
MS. MARIANO: Something like that.
MR. ROBERTS: Or subject to a ten -
foot setback requirement.
MS. MARIANO: Okay.
MR. RAND: Yeah. Are we done with
that, Rusty?
MR. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. RAND: On Exhibit D --
MR. ROBERTS: Just so I'm clear
here, no as to their suggested --
MR. RAND: Square footage.
MR. ROBERTS: -- square footage.
MAYOR VORESS: Right.
MR. ROBERTS: We want to leave
applicable town codes. We want to leave the
language in that they took out. Right?
MR. RAND: Right.
MR. ROBERTS: No to the 1,300 a unit
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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IM
M
in paragraph seven.
MAYOR VORESS: Right.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Are we stuck into
the one and a half parking lots -- parking
spaces?
MR. ROBERTS: I don't tnink there
was a change there.
MR. RAND: No, there was no change.
MAYOR VORESS: No, there was no
change there.
MS. MARIANO: And that was what the
park requirements were in 185.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: In 185, yeah. That
will make a lot of havoc.
MR. RAND: C there's no change.
MR. ROBERTS: Just tell us where you
can find that half car. Exhibit C I believe is
unchanged.
MAYOR VORESS: Correct.
MR. RAND: Rusty, on Exhibit D they
suggest a joint motion for and they add the word
dismissal of appeals and court order. Is that a
problem?
MR. ROBERTS: Yes, it is. Saying
we're not going to dismiss the appeal until it's
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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all squared. They wanted to dismiss it first, so
that's a no.
MR. RAND: So we leave out dismissal
of appeals.
MR. ROBERTS: Correct.
MR. RAND: So that's out.
MR. ROBERTS: Next was Exhibit E.
MR. RAND: I have a problem with
that ordered and adjudged in the second
paragraph. We had jury verdict of thirty-one
million one fifty and they have deleted that and
substituted special jury verdict dated March 4,
1992. Now, I don't know. Are we talking about
the same thing?
MR. ROBERTS: Right.
MR. RAND: It is the same thing?
MR. ROBERTS: I'm going to ask him
why. Quite frankly, I don't know that it makes a
big difference but verdicts are generally not
controlling of anything, but I thought it's
interesting that they want everything else in
there but they don't want that in there.
MAYOR VORESS: The thirty-one
million five.
MR. RAND: But that was a mistake.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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That was a mistake which the judge made which he
amended. Right? That was the initial order and
then he changed it. And then changed it again.
But those actually were verdicts that were
rendered, but if they want to put in special jury
verdict then I think they should say special jury
verdict of 31,150,000 dated March 4, 1992.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, let's leave it
at this. Let's ask them why.
MR. RAND: All right.
MR. ROBERTS: I can suppose that
they are not -- do not feel that the verdict was
for 31.150. They're certainly arguing that it
was not. Okay?
MR. RAND: But the initial verdict
was for 31 million, Rusty.
MR. ROBERTS: John, we could, you
know, argue that point till doom's day as to
whether it was or wasn't, so I don't know that it
really makes a difference.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: We never discussed
the money.
MR. RAND: Oh, we're not finished.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: We haven't gotten
there yet.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MAYOR VORESS: They've got a whole
knew paragraph added.
MR. RAND: On page two of that
exhibit they're adding it is furthermore.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: I don't have this
Exhibit E.
MR. RAND: It's Exhibit E in your
set from them.
MR. ROBERTS: That's the one I did
not have.
MR. RAND: That's the set from
them.
MR. ROBERTS: I've got it now.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Which set, John?
MR. RAND: The set that we
collected, not the one Rusty is giving us now,
it's from the set that they sent us.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Then what page are
we on?
end.
MR. RAND: Exhibit E, it's at the
VICE MAYOR PAUL: E as in easy.
MR. RAND: E as in Edward.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: No.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: No, I haven't got
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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it either.
MAYOR VORESS: Here, it's on the
last page of this -- remember this document that
says I do not understand what all these numbers
are, page numbers. Look at the last two pages.
That's Exhibit E.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Okay.
MAYOR VORESS: Found it?
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Yes.
MAYOR VORESS: Okay.
MR. RAND: You got it, Bill?
MAYOR VORESS: That's it, Bill.
MR. RAND: Arthur?
MR. EYPEL: I'm looking.
MS. MARIANO: It's page thirty.
MR. EYPEL: I got it.
MS. MARIANO: It's page 30. 29, 30.
MR. RAND: They've added in the
paragraph, "It is further ordered and adjudged
that this order has been entered in pursuance of
a separate settlement stipulation entered by the
parties and final order and decree approving such
settlement rendered by this court which shall
henceforth control in place of the judgments and
the order to satisfy above." How do you feel
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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about that, Rusty?
MR. ROBERTS: Well --
MS. MARIANO: It seems like it helps
us almost.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, it's really kind
of a duplication, quite frankly.
MR. RAND: It's redundant.
MR. ROBERTS: Because this cause
came on before the Court upon the stipulation of
parties for settlement and duly advised of the
stipulation. I think it's just duplicative,
quite frankly, and I don't like the shall
henceforth -- not that I don't agree with that,
but it shall henceforth control what?
MAYOR VORESS: In place of the
judgments and the order to satisfy --
MR. ROBERTS: See, the thing of it
is that they're trying to tie the two together.
Okay? And I'm not -- I want to avoid tying one
as being a replacement of the other, and, again,
it's in semantics, but I hate to get into these
semantics wars because I don't know where they're
coming from. You have satisfied those judgments,
they're gone. You have a new agreement.
MAYOR VORESS: Yes.
MUDRICI£, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. ROBERTS: You have a new
judgment. And I don't want there to be attempt
by some order that -- this judge is just going to
sign this without reading it, you know, so I
don't want to give them a basis of -- I think
it's duplicative and I think it gives a wrong
implication and I would be against it.
MR. RAND: The whole paragraph?
MR. ROBERTS: Right. Back to
money.
MR. RAND: Money money money makes
the world go around.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: I would hope that
when we get into the discussion of this with them
that any movement we make is in very minute or
maybe not minute but small increments, no giant
steps forward.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Well, are we going
to go over these one by one?
MR. ROBERTS: Well, I think that,
you know, the first concept here seems to me is
the amount. You have -- they previously said
they'd be willing to settle for five and a half
million, you offered two and a half million
dollars payable in two installments, and their
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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response simply was I want five and a half
million dollars.
MR. RAND: Up front.
MR. ROBERTS: Up front.
MR. RAND: Before signing.
MR. ROBERTS: On the day of
signing.
MAYOR VORESS: Well, that's not
quite right, Rusty. The first offer was a
sliding scale tied to the sales price of the
property. At nineteen million dollars is the
five and a half. At twenty-two which they think
they could get for the property it was four
million and at twenty-five it was two million.
That was the deal. And that's what we wrote them
back.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: What offer was
that?
MAYOR VORESS: Right here in this
letter by Mary Ann. That's the thing that we
brought -- that I brought back when John Douglas
and I talked with him in Valley Forge.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: This says sliding
scale. Do we pay less if they get more?
MAYOR VORESS: That's correct.
MUDRICI£, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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W.-
MR. RAND: The sum due would be
contingent upon what sales price they got for the
property.
MAYOR VORESS: That's right. And
this deal was that we paid them two and a half
million dollars on the satisfaction of the
agreement, whether it's stipulation or court
order, and that then we would pay them the latter
of either twelve months later or when the
property was sold the difference between the two
million and the five five or if they sold it for
twenty-five we'd pay them more money. This sales
price relationship came about as a result of a
discussion with Jay about what you think the best
price is you can get for the property, and he
said if everything goes right, we think we can
get twenty-five million. What's the worst? And
he said, well, if all the world falls in on us,
we think the bottom line we can get is nineteen.
What is the average price you expect to achieve?
And he said it's twenty-two. And so this scale
was developed to say, all right, under the
concept of fairness that we would try to
reimburse them for any of their out-of-pocket
costs, and that's more than this, we will pay you
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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less money as you get more for the property but
not change it so much that they say, well, we
might as well sell it for either nineteen or
twenty-five and get the same number. So that's
where the concept came from.
The reason it changed to five five
is because in discussions with them when Mary Ann
and Rusty and I were up there and the concern
about whether we had the right to dedicate money
right away and pay it right away or under a
sliding scale where we have to get -- where we're
committing future commissions and we didn't know
how all that was, Jay said, okay, just pay it all
in one bloody blow and it's five and a half
million dollars. That's where that came from.
But the first offer was a sliding scale.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Correct.
MAYOR VORESS: And that's the way
that worked and that's the way we wrote back to
them to say -- that's Mary Ann's letter to Jay
which I think all of you have.
MR. RAND: I think before we agree
to any amount I think we ought to establish first
the procedure and the requirement for such a
procedure be adopted. Regardless of what the
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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figure is that we decide upon they have to
understand and agree that this agreement must
provide for that payment to be made only after
the court orders us to do so.
MAYOR VORESS: I agree.
MR. RAND: This is a condition sine
qua non because we can't pay the money, we don't
have the money to pay up front without going
through a referendum which creates further delays
and so forth, so that's the first condition, that
the payment will be made whatever the figure is
that we agree upon only after the court order --
the court issues the order as requested here.
Now, that should be no danger for them. We're
making an agreement with them, and as Rusty said,
the Court is going to sign this without even
looking at it, so we don't anticipate that the
Court would object to something like this.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: What amount are you
talking about?
MR. RAND: We haven't talked about
it. We're just saying whatever the amount is,
this is how we want it to be established. And
that the payment should be made only after the
Court issues an order agreeing to implement the
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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settlement that we reach. That's all I'm saying.
MAYOR VORESS: You're not talking
about amount of money.
MR. RAND: How the --
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Is that mandatory
the Court has to implement a settlement?
MR. RAND: You avoid the Florida
statutes and the problem of referendum and being
able to borrow money, okay, if you do it without
a court order you've got a legal problem. Okay?
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Right.
MR. RAND: That you may not be
legally able to do something like that because
you are in effect pledging the ad valorem
taxation base of the town, and you cannot do that
without a referendum or a budget hearing. Okay?
MR. AUGENSTEIN: I understand.
MR. RAND: So we circumvent that
problem by virtue of the Court ordering us to
make this payment based on a settlement that
we've agreed to. So that's step number one.
Step number two, I don't want to
have sort of like an installment payment, that we
give you so much now and then we'll give you
$500,000 in one year, 500,000 in two years or
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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three years. I want to reach a figure with them
that we all agree to and that we pay them what we
can, what is immediately available to us, and the
difference is payable say within ninety days or
six months. If they want their money immediately
after the court order, then I think fine, then
lend us the money and give us the right to repay
you within six months at no interest. If that's
what they want. Okay? In which case we would
have then six months to arrange for a funding, a
bond issue, borrowing from a bank on a bridge
loan basis or whatever the case may be if that's
what they insist on.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Well, I'd like to
know what the amount is going to be before I
could say yes or no to that. Repay how much?
MR. RAND: It doesn't change how
we're going to do it. We're not talking about
what the amount is.
MS. MARIANO: Only if it's above 2.5
will we get into that.
MR. RAND: If it's over 2.5 and I
assume this is what they're going to request.
How much is an issue. We're not going to jump at
whatever they suggest. We're going to go in
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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stages.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Do we have the 2.5
to give immediately?
MR. RAND: We have the 2.5. That we
can do. Right?
MS. MARIANO: With a million from
the insurance.
MR. RAND:
insurance and --
With a million from the
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Is that definite or
not? I don't know. The last I heard there was
no definite commitment.
MR. RAND: You have that. That's
available. Right, Mary?
MS. MARIANO: Right.
MR. RAND: The million and a half is
available from our reserves.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: The one five.
MR. RAND: The one five is
available.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: That would be two
five.
MR. RAND: And a million from the
insurance, 2.5, so the difference over that
figure is what we have to arrange for, whatever
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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that difference may be.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Well, let's decide
what that difference may be.
MAYOR VORESS: Okay, Bill.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: Going back to this
letter they're taking as our agreement this was a
letter from the Town Manager saying what she
would be able to recommend to us at that time so
this has never come to us for any action of
approval or disapproval.
MR. RAND: That's what he's going to
tell him, Bill.
MAYOR VORESS: This is no
agreement. I would just say that there was a
range of payments.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: Right. But I mean
this is --
MR. RAND: But that was never
agreed.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: It was responded
to so --
MAYOR VORESS: It was never said
that it was agreed to. This letter says from the
Town Manager send us something consistent with
the proposal. So there was never any agreement.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MS. MARIANO: That's why I said at
that time because that certainly was before the
oral arguments and before that we received
additional input from our attorneys and what they
felt the case was worth.
MAYOR VORESS : Before all of that.
MS. MARIANO: That was before any of
that. That's why those words are important that
at this time, you know, that would be something
that may be considered and never was, as the
Mayor said, by the board as a whole.
MR. RAND: You can approach this,
this is obviously a matter of negotiation, it's a
question of how far they want to go and how far
we want to go, and I think, as I mentioned
before, a good deal is one where both parties are
satisfied or, as Commissioner Augenstein said, a
good deal is one where both parties are
dissatisfied. Okay? So it's a question of how
far are you prepared to go. We were willing to
give them two and a half million. They said they
wanted five and a half million, so is the next
step to split the difference and come up with
four?
VICE MAYOR PAUL: Four. Too fast.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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Too fast there.
MR. RAND: Well, then how do we
approach it? What do we say?
MR. EYPEL: Can I ask a question?
Who's got the ball -- when we invite these
people back in, are they going to give us --
we're going to give them, excuse me, we're going
to give them the results of our meeting here
today.
MAYOR VORESS: Correct.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: Rusty is going to
communicate with them.
MAYOR VORESS: That's what we agreed
to.
MR. EYPEL: We've talked about
everything except the money. Now we're talking
about the money.
MAYOR VORESS: Correct.
MR. EYPEL: We offered them 2.5
million.
MR. RAND: Right.
MR. EYPEL: Don't you think that it
would be in our best interests to have them
counter to us first?
MR. RAND: They did. They said five
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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and a half million dollars.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: They said as per
agreement and yet we've never had an agreement.
MAYOR VORESS: That's wrong. We're
going to challenge them on that.
MR. RAND: The agreement they sent
us says they want -- in other words, they're
responding to our two and a half million by
saying they want five and a half million. That's
their response.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: The response was as
per agreement.
MR. RAND: No, they sent us this
draft right now, okay, which they've asked us to
pay them 5.5 million by federal wire transfer
upon execution of this agreement.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: We still have these
twenty odd issues to straighten out with them on
the agreement.
MR. RAND: That goes without
saying. We're trying to figure out amongst
ourselves how far we're prepared to go.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: Next, our comment
on the money issue when it comes to it, they
wrote us a letter in 1991 saying that it would
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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not be fair for the other -- they needed all this
money, and this is the point we're only talking
about $75,000 or so, but it wouldn't be fair for
them to move off that to make other U.S.
taxpayers subsidize the taxpayers of Highland
Beach. Yet in later conversations they turn
around when we're trying to say and use the
argument saying but, look, you've settled with
other people for ten cents on the dollar, well,
as I understand the conversation has been, but,
yes, we need to get it where we can to make up
for where we can't get it, so, in other words,
it's all right for them to make the Highland
Beach people subsidize the losers, but it's not
all right for somebody else to help subsidize us
as one of their arguments for -- as I see it.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: I agree with your
ethics.
MAYOR VORESS:
We need to come to a number.
MR. AUGENSTEIN:
we?
apart.
That doesn't help.
How far apart are
MR. EYPEL: Three million.
MAYOR VORESS: We're three million
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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VICE MAYOR PAUL: Let's try it in
$500,000 leaps.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, if you want my
input --
MR. AUGSTENSTEIN: Absolutely.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: Please.
MR. ROBERTS: It seems to me,
everything else considered, that they made a
proposal and we met on that proposal, and I think
before that meeting transpired that everybody was
pretty much in agreement that this sliding scale
really meant nothing to us because it's not in
anybody's comprehension that they'll ever sell
this property as is for anywhere over ten million
dollars so really that sliding scale meant
nothing other than just show dressing. And the
proposal was, well, forget the sliding scale,
thank you very much, and we want five and a half
million cash and then we met and responded and
said we'll offer you two and a half million cash
within the time period, and their response is I
want five and a half million in cash now, the
same response that they previously made. My
suggestion was if you want to negotiate,
negotiate, you come off your figure before we do
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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ours. We're not going to bid against ourselves
and which I think they want you to do.
And I think that the posture is that
we're giving you cash as quickly as we can, but
if you want to go beyond that figure, it's --
first I think you ought to come up with the
figure, and, second of all, we've got to talk
about how we're going to get it to you. And it's
not going to be by wire transfer. What can you
live with? And it seems to me that the
discussion that entailed the last time we met or
the time before that that we met in executive
session is probably the most painless way would
be to make installment payments over a period of
years which could be funded by simply raising
taxes, and I think that probably -- you would
probably be better served by having them here to
simply discuss, listen, what is it you absolutely
have to have. We cannot give you the money by
wire transfer. So talk about something else,
some other method of payment.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Why don't we hear
what they have to say?
MR. ROBERTS: Yes, and quite frankly
I mean -- I'm just aghast that these people need
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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this money right away because it's a government
agency that's got billions of dollars and we've
gone over before this is a drop in the proverbial
bucket to them, that Judith Thomsen called me
yesterday and said her pleasantries and said,
well, we want to change the agreement to some
extent because the RTC is going to be involved in
seller financing in this, and either the RTC or
FDIC will be involved in the long haul. Well,
you know, they're not even going to get nineteen
million in cash for the deal. They're going to
get seller financing. Well, if they can finance
it to any guy that walks down the street, why
can't they seller finance to the Town of Highland
Beach? Why is it that we've got to pay the money
up front?
VICE MAYOR PAUL: Right.
MR. ROBERTS: Okay? I mean that's
what makes sense to me.
MAYOR VORESS: I think they'll do
that.
MR. ROBERTS: I think they will,
too. This letter doesn't say anything about
that. Okay?
MAYOR VORESS: I would suggest that
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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we follow what Rusty is saying. Remember, we're
going to have a position where we can break to
have discussions, and I think what we're lacking
here is some input from the RTC --
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Exactly.
MAYOR VORESS: -- about this issue
and once we get that input we'll ask for a break
where the Commission can discuss what has gone on
and the RTC can discuss. They may indeed decide
to have a break earlier to discuss something, so
I think we need to follow Rusty's idea, get their
input and then break for discussions based on
what the information we've received from them.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: As Rusty suggested,
let's ask them what do you want.
MAYOR VORESS: I think we can do
that.
MS. MARIANO: I think we ought to do
it in the same fashion we just did this meeting.
Skip over it and leave it for last because if we
don't get by some of the other items, the money
is not going to matter.
MR. RAND: It's going to be last
because otherwise you're liable to cancel the
meeting right on the spot.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MS. MARIANO: That's what I'm
saying. If we can't get over some of the other
deal breakers that are in here, then there's no
sense discussing the issue of money, where we're
going to get it or anything else.
MR. RAND: I think, Rusty, my
suggestion would be to tell them we'd like to
discuss various aspects of the proposal and leave
the monetary consideration and the density or
height situation until the end because it would
mean more time that way.
MAYOR VORESS: Well, let me say
this. It's five o'clock. They've been there for
two hours sitting there. Remember, I said to you
we'll invite the people to the meeting and
introduce everybody here, tell them how the town
would like to proceed with the discussions, and
we're going to have Rusty do that, and he can
cover that and I do want to comment on the
objection to set the stage that we haven't agreed
to 5.5 million dollars and turn to Rusty and then
he can in turn say this is the way we'd like to
do it. We would like to handle these issues
first and then we would like to handle last the
building parameters and the money.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. AUGENSTEIN: I agree with that.
MAYOR VORESS: Everybody agree with
that?
MR. RAND: Yes.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: Counsel?
MR. ROBERTS: Fine.
MAYOR VORESS: If we can just
perhaps adjourn for a few minutes and I'll go get
them.
MR. ROBERTS: Okay.
(A brief recess is taken.)
MAYOR VORESS: If we could reconvene
the meeting, I'd like to --
MR. ROBERTS: Maybe just for
purposes of the record before we do that as a
continuing and reconvened session of this
executive session, we have invited in
representatives of the plaintiffs appellees in
the matter of Town of Highland Beach versus
Resolution Trust Company. And those persons are
Chris Yates, James Hambric and Judith Thomsen.
The time is 5:15 and the -- in my view the
session will continue to be confidential as to
the public even with the invitation of these
people in because it deals with negotiation of
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MAYOR VORESS: Thank you. I'd like
to welcome you here today and introduce you to
the members of the Commission. Starting from my
right is Dave Augenstein, Arthur Eypel, Vice
Mayor Bill Paul, me you know, Arlin Voress,
Commissioner John Rand, Rusty Roberts, who is
acting as Town Counsel, and Mary Ann Mariano, the
Town Manager, and on that side Chris Yates, Jay
Hambric and Judith Thomsen, so we welcome you
here to the meeting. And I'd like to discuss
with you how we'd like to proceed with the
meeting and then see if that meets your
objectives. If it doesn't let's talk about
that.
What we would like to do, we have
had a previous discussion about the response you
have given to the town, and we have discussed
issues that arise from that document, and we have
asked the Town Counsel, Rusty Roberts, to be our
spokesman so he will listen to all of us,
although each one of the commissioners will have
the right to add to or subtract from anything
that's said if that's all right with you, and
you'll have the right to say anything back
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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obviously. And we'd like to say that if at any
time during the discussions you'd like to have a
break for a conference on either side, we'd be
glad to do that. If you all wouldn't mind using
that other room you were in and we'll use this
one to maybe get some determination on some issue
that may arise, we'd like to do that. Is that
satisfactory to you?
MR. HAMBRIC: That's fine.
MAYOR VORESS: We probably will go
along for a while so I might ask the Town Manager
what choices we have for something to eat and
what you all would like to do.
MS. MARIANO: Well, we can either
break and everybody can leave and go their
separate ways for dinner and then come back or I
guess we can order from the Holiday Inn and we
could order the guys to deliver from the
restaurant, I guess, or -- we all know that menu
by heart, I think. Or whatever you all decide
you'd like to do.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: Probably just
leave the premises for a time because we'll need
to stretch and breathe some other air.
MS. MARIANO: Let me just do one
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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other thing for the benefit of our stenographer.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: Set a time for
return.
MAYOR VORESS: I'll wait for Judith
and Chris to come back and I've got one more
comment and we'll see if we can't get started.
We do indeed have a court reporter taking down
all the information, and at some point in time
this will all be public record.
MR. ROBERTS: Just maybe you're not
familiar with this session, it's required by
statute that we have a court reporter here. That
transcript is -- a transcript will be made but it
will be kept confidential until the conclusion of
this litigation, and at that time it becomes a
public record.
MR. HAMBRIC: I'll make sure I don't
say anything I don't want anyone to know.
MAYOR VORESS: You want us to wait
till Judith comes back?
MR. HAMBRIC: She should be back in
just a second. She was needing to call someone
to let them know her timing, so just give her a
couple of seconds. It shouldn't take her long.
MAYOR VORESS: Jay, I did receive on
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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Saturday your document I think transmitted by
Judith and probably signed by Judith, too, I
guess, saying that this is the draft that I had
asked you for, that there were some changes in
the development parameters, you hadn't had a
chance to talk to us. The last sentence in there
said, "In earlier conversations I have already
notified you that our revision would reflect the
monetary settlement we reached with the town." I
must tell you that I'm not aware of any monetary
settlement. I know there's some offers, but you
had not reached any monetary settlement with the
town.
MR. HAMBRIC: You've seen a .ieLLer 1
haven't seen yet so --
MAYOR VORESS: I understand.
MR. HAMBRIC: Okay.
MAYOR VORESS: I just -- as a matter
of record we don't have any monetary settlement.
We have proposals going back and forth, but there
is none there.
MR. HAMBRIC: All right.
MAYOR VORESS: With that
introduction I'd like to turn to Rusty and ask
him to start the conversations.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. ROBERTS: Well, basically we
have discussed for the first time this afternoon
the proposals that were submitted to the town and
myself on Friday afternoon or Friday evening
last, and what I think to be orderly about it
what we propose to do is to go through those
areas that you have suggested changes, deletions
and have a discussion about those to tell you
what we would agree with and wouldn't agree with
and find out, and basically to keep that order is
to first go to those portions of the agreements
and exhibits and then to the building parameters
since there have been suggested changes there as
well, and then finally if there's success there,
talk about money.
MR. HAMBRIC: Okay.
MR. ROBERTS: On the first page, and
I'm kind of going on -- it really might not
dovetail with yours because what I've done for
the Commission is take a copy of the agreement
that I prepared and inserted in there those
portions that you have -- when I say you, being
RTC, have suggested the change and added in those
areas that suggested deleted. The first one is
in the first paragraph it talks about your
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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addition of the stipulation of settlement or the
agreement. Our only thought was that if we
wanted more than this stipulation just to say the
settlement stipulation to try to keep a
consistency amongst the terms that are used. If
you want to expand it to settlement stipulation,
that would be fine. Not that there isn't a
settlement agreement but the fact the more you
add and the more you figure into it, the more
confusing it gets.
MR. HAMBRIC: Judith, I'm going to
defer to you because you've got the language.
MS. THOMSEN: Now, is the game plan
for us to respond or do you want to go through
your changes?
MR. ROBERTS: However you want to
handle it. If it's something you want to talk
about or --
MR. HAMBRIC: You want to do it as
we go through each paragraph?
MS. THOMSEN: No, I'd probably
rather go through it in whole and see what their
changes are.
MR. HAMBRIC: I'll defer to you.
MR. ROBERTS: All right. The next
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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change that appeared was on -- it would be
paragraph one, parties and property affected, and
in there we had described the property and we
don't have any problem to adding the more or less
that you had suggested there on those two
occasions. But we did want to discuss the
deletion of the next sentence starting off the
remaining seven acres, and as a general principle
we have a concern that because the RPUD as
initially drafted and as amended in 1980 included
the south seven acres of the south three hundred
feet and to the extent that this document amends
that plan which is our feeling that you probably
find that necessary for that plan to be amended
to thwart any problems you might have with
concurrency or consistency or something else, and
I think a lot of that language that has been
employed is not objectionable to us because it
goes to that problem which we've discussed over
the years. We just wanted to make sure that it
was crystal clear that this agreement has
absolutely no effect on the south seven acres
which we understand are owned by Mr. Hoffman and
that -- and on each occasion that we can we've
attempted to in this agreement simply to identify
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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that as a separate part and no longer a part.
And that's why we have put in here specifically,
"The remaining seven acres that were originally a
part of the RPUD are not owned by plaintiffs and
are not covered by, or affected by, or benefit
from this agreement." And unless there's some
other reason why, I mean we can't understand
why.
MS. THOMSEN: I think that we
have -- Rusty, do you have with you a summary of
the changes and kind of the justification that we
felt in terms of making them?
MR. ROBERTS: No, I don't have any
justification.
MS. THOMSEN: Okay. This was a
sheet that I believe was faxed out to you that
just kind of went through in a narrative
explaining the changes.
MR. ROBERTS: I didn't get that. In
fact, I didn't get all of the fax but --
MS. THOMSEN: In any event, the only
thing we were concerned with with regard to that
language is the fact that I believe Hoffman has
certain easement rights or for retainage pond or
whatever, and so to the extent that he has
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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anything to do with our property, he might be
affected by it and he might benefit from it. We
don't expect him to be covered by it and really I
think we could care less in terms of whether or
not it benefits him or affects him. All we're
concerned with is our parcel. At the same time
we realize that it may in its natural course have
some effect on him, his property or may in some
way benefit him because we're allowed to develop
it, and that was really the justification between
not wanting that in there because if there is
something that benefits him or affects him as an
adjoining property owner, it's kind of like --
it's not affected by the agreement but, you know,
we don't -- we can't say that it won't happen.
We can't say that the development of the property
will not benefit him in some way or affect him in
some way as an adjoining property owner, so that
was really the rationale behind that change. So
if you said not covered because clearly he isn't
a party to the agreement and he isn't going to be
a part of the development, that would be fine
with us.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, that's what I
said or not covered by or affected -- you say --
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MS. THOMSEN: I think the affected
and the benefit was because he has I think
certain retainage rights, retainage ponds or
something.
MR. YATES: In a settlement effected
with Hoffman, there are certain easements that
the RTC as receiver for Broadview agreed to with
Hoffman, the owner of the seven acres to the
south of our parcel, and those pertain, I
believe, largely to a retention pond which when
the sixteen plus acres is developed would be
probably necessary in order to have it conform to
current use. A benefit was granted via an
easement to Hoffman for that. I think there was
also some other utility connection points or
something like that that might also have been
specified in that agreement, and the concern as
Judith has stated is was that by specifically
saying no benefit to the owner of the seven acres
to the south, we might by agreeing to that in the
stipulation be saying -- taking back something
we'd already agreed to in another settlement.
MS. THOMSEN: Or be technically
incorrect.
MR. YATES: We didn't want to be in
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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default of another agreement.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, I guess I don't
understand how whatever deal you've worked with
him has anything to do with us, and so,
therefore, I don't think any agreement you work
with us is between the rights and obligations of
between each other so whether it benefits him or
not --
MR. YATES: That's why we felt by
not making any mention of the owner and benefit
to the owner of the seven acres to the south in
our estimation it didn't put us into that sort of
catch 22 situation, counsel.
MR. HAMBRIC: I'm a little
confused. I mean if you go in and you talk about
the 17 acres, it's the 17 acres. Right? So --
and we're saying the 17 acres of the original 24
acres. So if you say the 17 acres of the 24 or
you just say the 17 acres, don't you accomplish
the same thing?
MS. THOMSEN: And refer to schedule
lA in terms of the property description.
MR. RAND: But you've added the
stipulation applies only to the property. By
identifying the property as 17.3 acres and then
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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adding the stipulation applies only to the
property meaning the 7.3 so what objection would
there be in leaving this additional sentence in?
I don't understand.
MR. HAMBRIC: I'm not sure which --
MR. RAND: We're talking about
parties and property affected, section A.
MR. HAMBRIC: But I've got two
agreements here is part of my problem.
MS. THOMSEN: This is theirs. This
is the one that we changed and what they're
saying is what it says here the remaining seven
and we said, well, that's not covered by it so
there's no need to have a reference to it, in
addition to which we can't say that it's not
affected, it doesn't benefit from the agreement
because it could in the course have some benefit
or effect to him and so it was just a question of
clearly he's not a party to the agreement and any
benefit he has is not a consequence of being a
party to the agreement, but we weren't -- we
didn't feel comfortable saying that he's not
affected by it or benefit from it. That's all.
MR. HAMBRIC: So Rusty in the
draft --
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MS. THOMSEN: If we have not
covered, that's fine with me.
MR. HAMBRIC: So, Rusty, if the
draft we sent back to you says the property as
more fully described in Exhibit 1 represents 17.4
acres more or less of the original 24.5 acres
more or less of the RPUD of the property and is
owned by the plaintiff, the stipulation only
applies to the property.
MR. ROBERTS: Right.
MR. HAMBRIC: Does that not meet
what's --
MR. ROBERTS: Well, as I said, you
know, if you want to delete or "affected by," I
don't have a problem with that.
MS. THOMSEN: How about or benefit
from? Because, you know, I don't know about that
either. In other words, he -- it's clearly not
covered by and he's not a party to it, but
whether or not he benefits from it, I mean I
don't know what he plans on doing or, you know,
anything like that so that's why the affected or
benefit seemed to us to be something that we were
saying when it may or may not be the case. I
can't think of any way it is.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. HAMBRIC: Why don't we just
strike the whole remaining seven acres. If the
idea is we're settling on the portion we own, why
are we even talking about the other seven acres?
MR. ROBERTS: The reason is because
you have the continuation in an amended form of
the RPUD, and those parts were a part of the
original RPUD.
MR. HAMBRIC: Okay.
MR. ROBERTS: And that -- I don't
think we're in disagreement but it is not a part
of it.
MS. THOMSEN: I don't either,
Rusty.
MR. ROBERTS: It's semantics of
making sure that Mr. Hoffman doesn't come in
later and say, gee, your RPUD is still in
existence, town, I want 256 units in two towers
now whereas current zoning gives me, you know,
thirty.
MR. HAMBRIC: Why don't we delete or
affected by or benefit from, strike those six
words?
MS. THOMSEN: It's clearly not
covered by the agreement.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. ROBERTS: I don't have a problem
affected by but my concern is benefit as well.
Because if he picks up this agreement --
MR. HAMBRIC: You have to play
lawyer so -- I mean affected by or benefit to me
when I read as a business person reading the
agreement, they both have a similar meaning to
me, so if you take one and leave one in it's kind
of a wash to me.
MR. ROBERTS: Why don't we leave
that and we will discuss it further amongst
ourselves. The next thing, as I see it, is
paragraph three, development parameters and time
limits, and I'll tell you one concern that is a
general concern throughout the agreement of the
town which I guess is something that we have to
come to grips with is that whether this is simply
by its terms, whatever they may be, of
development parameters in and of itself an
amendment to the RPUD plan whereas this is the
only thing or whether it's an alternative, and
the language that you've suggested is that you
either do it in accordance with the RPUD-2 plan
or within the parameters. And the difficulty
with that is that the RPUD plan had a density of
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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620 units -- I mean 620 dwelling units, different
sizes and whatever, so if it's your intent to
give it an alternative, then I think then really
what we've done here is given you the opportunity
to do anything you want amongst those two plans
whereas I think our offer really was let's come
MR. HAMBRIC: I don't think that's
ever the intent. I think we've always agreed in
our preliminary sessions, and Rusty and Mary Ann,
we had one Friday night not so long ago was that
we're talking about 427 units is the maximum
number to be built on the parcel.
MR. ROBERTS: And I feel that that
is the understanding, too, but from a legal
standpoint if you suggest that there are two
alternatives, one of which is not limited by 427,
you create a confusion which would just lead to
further litigation.
MS. THOMSEN: And I would be happy
to amend it to say in any event no more than 427
units to be constructed.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, but --
MAYOR VORESS: Or just take the RPUD
out, then you don't have that problem.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MS. THOMSEN: I think there was some
discussion anyway, it really was a development
discussion in terms of it being desirable to
market the property on kind of an either/or but
the intent being that it would be no more than
427 units, and I think that's always been what is
understood, and I'm more than willing to
specifically limit it to that which is what I
think you've always felt was our understanding.
MR. YATES: Yes, it's really a
matter of -- as we're an owner only vicariously
right now and it's our mandate in the judgment to
dispose of the property, expose it to the
marketplace and have a private developer owner of
that property as soon as possible, we didn't want
to limit the amount -- limit the type of
development and disadvantage the town and the
number of units, certainly Jay has said 427 was
the max units for our site that's contemplated.
We didn't want to with the iterations of the
development plan or a developer might think the
benefits of the RPUD-2, we didn't want to
foreclose one for the other. We are amenable to
the 427 max units. That's a given. And we just
did not want to foreclose the possibility the
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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developer might find the RPUD-2 more conducive to
them than the alternative plan, but the cap on
the units is something that's a given, so it's
really to facilitate the marketing as we are not
to be the developer long term. We're going to be
exposing this to the marketplace and hopefully
the marketplace will decide what's most expedient
and economically viable for it to work with the
town and to build on.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, I guess we can
probably leave this for further discussion
because -- and I'll just tell you our input on
this. If it is your intention to do that, and I
don't think it's going to be easy to do an
agreement because it will require us to go back
and look at every aspect of the RPUD-2 plan which
we've not done. It's my feeling in having been
exposed to it that it might have aspects of it
beyond the number of units which are inconsistent
with the building parameters that we're speaking
here, so this Town Commission would have to
know.
I guess in drafting the agreement as
it was drafted and submitted, it was based upon
the thought that there wasn't any really viable
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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alternative of the RPUD plan. The evidence seems
to suggest that was not marketable back as far as
182 when the request for the judgment was entered
the request was made over our strenuous objection
that they be allowed to make reasonable
modifications, and I think that was based upon,
and certainly the record will reflect that there
was argument to the effect that, well, we can't
build this now, you know, this might have to be
controlled, and, quite candidly, I think that if
you're dealing with building codes now, there
probably would be an interplay now between that
plan approved in 1980 and what the building plans
have here. I am looking in the drafting of it
and the proposal to you in a way to do it that
both of us can live with that is clear and
concise and without confusion and consistency.
And if it is your intention, then certainly I
think this whole thing has to be looked at again
to see what those inconsistencies may or may not
ETam
MR. HAMBRIC: I think it's our
intention in some of the earlier discussions I
know the Mayor and other folks have said, you
know, somebody may want to build houses there as
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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opposed to units, and I think the idea was leave
it more open-ended for a developer to come in and
say what they thought the best use of the
property was. So coming up with a plan that
allows 427 units or other actions someone deems
to take on the property was giving two
alternatives. Again, I go back, and I guess I'm
looking at this -- I hope we never litigate any
of these matters again, but I go back and look at
this agreement and in my mind we're looking at
the attachments saying it's 427 units of so many
stories, setback of so much footage. That's in
my mind the development plan we're going to sell
to the developer, this is what gives the property
value, please bid. And then they have to come in
and do whatever they normally do to meet the
safety, fire code and those other kind of things.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, you and I are
precisely in agreement then because I think
that's what I have suggested in the draft and
what you responded to is we set overall general
parameters and in those parameters you sit there
and say you have the discretion to build anything
you want with those parameters.. But the
difficulty is is when you also add the either/or
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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RPUD-2 plan, you change all of that and you make
things inconsistent.
MS. THOMSEN: I know that initially
and I know that I understand that the town has
not officially agreed to anything, I know when we
initially talked we were talking about an
envelope in terms of building the property and it
was -- and I think the discussions were that it
was either inconsistent with the RPUD or
anything -- any other development that was
reasonable, and I guess, you know, within the
parameters provided that it doesn't have more
than 427 and that was really what we talked about
I guess in terms of assessing it, and we haven't
done the same thing that you're saying that you
need to do which is we haven't gone to the --
through the RPUD and we don't intend really to
build on it, the RTC doesn't, it plans on
marketing and selling the property, is to go
through and see whether or not we feel that that
will diminish the marketability of the property.
MR. HAMBRIC: Well, I guess that's
another side board discussion as we slowly move
along.
MR. ROBERTS: Sure.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MS. THOMSEN: The only other thing
on that, Rusty, is the ten-year date, and we
hadn't really made this change, that if possible
we'd like the ten years from the sale date as
opposed to the order date. That's just something
else.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, I can tell you
that that sort of thought was discussed, but if
it's based upon when your sale is, I mean that
could be whenever. I mean that doesn't -- the
Commission is more in tune to picking a specific
date that we know is going to occur rather than
it being up in the air, but I'll certainly put
that up for discussion.
MR. HAMBRIC: Talking to the
development community, they prefer to see ten
years from the date of the sale. The people
you're going to have to be dealing with on a
daily basis.
MAYOR VORESS: The problem is if you
sell it in four or five different parcels.
MR. HAMBRIC: Date of sale in four
or five different parcels would be -- we're going
to market it and advertise it in one parcel.
MAYOR VORESS: If your offers come
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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in and you choose to sell it in different
parcels.
MR. HAMBRIC: But it would still be
the date of sale of those parcels. I do not
expect to sell one acre, two acres, three acres.
I mean I'm looking at this as a one-time sale,
somebody buys the entire parcel. And if no one
bids enough money, we're back to a different
story but --
MS. THOMSEN: We can do a no later
than maybe, Rusty, in terms of the sale date.
Ten years from the sale date provided the sale
takes place by such and such a date. I mean, you
know, I don't know how long we're going to market
it. I do know that we are going to want to
market it --
MR. YATES: Or a sale of
substantially all the property or something. For
the tax base it's better to do it all in one
parcel.
MS. THOMSEN: To do it all in one or
do it all in one pretty expeditiously.
MR. HAMBRIC: I expect it will take
us six months to sell it probably. Sixty days of
advertising, thirty days for people to make a bid
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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coming in, due diligence and then closing another
thirty-five or forty-five to ninety days to
close, so I expect it will take probably six
months to close it because it is going to be a
fairly substantial capital investment for
someone, but, then again, we may never sell it,
and, then again, we may be having this discussion
in ten years from now so --
MR. ROBERTS: Well, hopefully that's
what we don't want to have is the same discussion
in ten years from now.
MR. HAMBRIC: But anyway I think
that gives more value to the property which in
turn gives more value to the tax base here
because the higher the bid the higher the tax
base.
MR. ROBERTS: I think that's
probably why the ten-year figure is used. That
should give you enough time to sell and develop
it.
MR. HAMBRIC: My developer said give
me fifteen and I said ten sounds more reasonable
so -- but we'll ask you to consider that.
MR. ROBERTS: Okay. The next one is
on the infrastructure. We're not amenable to
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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dealing with a definition contained in Florida
statutes which can change on a daily basis -- or
a yearly basis as to what public facilities are.
MS. THOMSEN: Well, all that
provision attempts to do is, to the extent that
the property cannot be developed because of the
infrastructure, it gives time to get the
infrastructure in place. In other words, it
doesn't impose anything more other than if
something happens and we can't get electricity or
you can't provide what you need to to develop the
property, then you're not cut off from developing
it, and it really isn't -- I mean it doesn't mean
that the town has to share any burden other than
giving us additional time if we run into that
infrastructure which is outside of our control or
the developer -- it's outside of the developer's
control, it gives them the opportunity to
continue to develop it.
MR. HAMBRIC: I'm assuming by
driving up and down AlA here that there's water,
sewer and utilities can be connected so I mean
that's --
That's the only ones
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. HAMBRIC: Right. And when I was
talking to Judith, I think what they've told me
this talks about, again, I'm not a lawyer and I
don't -- I can't define Florida statutes for
anyone, but that's the part from a business point
of view I'm concerned about having, water, sewer
and utilities so we can hook up and build.
MS. THOMSEN: And the developer is
really responsible for everything that's normally
the developer's responsibility in terms of
meeting his cutoff deadlines which is kind of
what it then says that, you know, everything else
that is normally the responsibility of the
developer he doesn't get any extension for. If
he doesn't have it then, then he doesn't have it,
but as to things that are outside of his control
either within the town's control or the provider
of any other utilities or infrastructure, then he
is just given additional time because of that
problem.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, the only thing
that is within the control of the town as far as
infrastructure is water and sewer. That's it.
And so anything beyond that such as roads, this
is a state road out here. We don't have any
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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control over the state road. The state is the
one that decides whether they build it or not.
And if the state requires that for the purposes
of development there to be acceleration lanes or
widening or something like that, that is
traditionally the responsibility of the developer
to do this not the town. And that's why our
provision was just water and sewer, just those
ones that we control.
MR. HAMBRIC: Well, what's the
difference between water and sewer and public
facilities in Section 163.3164? I don't know.
I'm not a lawyer so somebody tell me the
difference.
MR. ROBERTS: The facilities in 163
means major capital improvements including but
not limited to transportation, road work which we
don't control, sanitary sewer which we do, solid
waste which we do not control, drainage which we
do, potable water which we do, educational we do
not control. That's controlled by the Palm Beach
County School Board. Parks and recreation,
that's controlled by Palm Beach County. We don't
have any control of that.
MR. HAMBRIC: In that section does
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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that imply that the township is supposed to
provide all those things?
MS. THOMSEN: It just gives you an
extension, Jay, in terms of if for some reason
you can't build on your property, you can't
develop it because you cannot get the necessary
things that are part of the infrastructure to
develop it, it extends your time. It doesn't say
that it is the town's responsibility. It just
gives you the additional period of time for
things that are outside of your control as the
developer. Everything that's the developer's
responsibility he gets no extension for. The
cutoff date is the cut off date. But if
something comes up and he can't develop it
because of the provision of something that's in
the infrastructure which is outside of its
control, then you get a corresponding increase
until the infrastructure is available.
MR. YATES: Here again, we were
thinking in terms of we're trying to construct
something more or less for posterity. Someone
else is going to inherit these terms and
conditions of the settlement. It hopefully will
be a private owner developer. We didn't want to
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
143
1 disadvantage them by something that wouldn't be
2 available and not have the benefit of at least
3 extending beyond the cutoff until those, if they
4 were requirements in infrastructure other than
5 what he as a developer, he, she as a developer
6 would be required to provide, we didn't want them
7 to not have the opportunity to have the extension
8 of time. That's all. It wasn't in anticipation
9 that the town would have to provide any of
10 these.
11 MR. ROBERTS: Well, I understand
12 that, too, but the way it's worded there, what it
13 means to us is that if a developer went and when
14 he started the development and the school board
15 says if you're going to build this development
16 you've got to contribute 100,000 or 300,000 or
17 two million dollars to the building of a school
18 within five miles, and he says no, I'm not going
19 to do that, then that means there's an automatic
20 extension until somebody finally does decide to
21 do that. So it could last forever.
22 MR. HAMBRIC: What's the down side
23 to the town?
24 MR. ROBERTS: The down side to the
25I town is it means -- it gives the developer the
MUDRICI£, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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opportunity to set this in perpetuity by his own
actions by failing to come up with -- if you
understand infrastructure --
MR. HAMBRIC: I understand that but
what's the down side to the town? They don't
build on the property?
MR. ROBERTS: No. I mean he doesn't
build -- I mean --
MR. HAMBRIC: That's the down side.
Nobody ever builds on the property.
MR. ROBERTS: The down side is
because it deals with extensions of cutoff date,
the down side is that it goes on at the
discretion of the developer.
MR. HAMBRIC: Or at the discretion
of the agency that has to give the approval.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, the agency --
MR. HAMBRIC: If the agency says you
have to build a school and the developer says no,
I don't think the developer ever wants to get
into business to build schools. That's not their
mentality. I mean the down side is it sets there
as raw land for the next however many years.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, if the developer
meets that, then he changes his development to
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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something that meets the requirements or gets a
waiver, but it's not something that's in our
control, you see.
And it's not in the
MR. ROBERTS: It absolutely is.
MR. HAMBRIC: Well, it's not in the
control -- in looking at the plan what we're
trying to do is if he has to go back and change
what he wants to build don't you think it's
appropriate if he has to completely re-engineer
and come up with a new strategy to market it,
wouldn't he need additional time to do that?
MR. ROBERTS: He should know that in
advance before he markets something.
MR. HAMBRIC: If that's the case you
shouldn't be worried about it then. I mean if
the developer knows what he's doing, we're
wasting our time talking about it because he'll
know all those things ahead of time, but if he
does go into it and somebody gets elected and you
have a change in the commission or you have a
change on the state level and they decide you
don't want to do these things, I think it's
probably putting the developer in an unfair
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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position that here I'm going to buy this but now
I can't develop it because someone's changed the
rules, and I would like the opportunity to have
time to develop new parameters to build.
MS. MARIANO: We're not taking the
extension out. The extension is staying in.
We're just limiting it to water and sewer.
There's no talk about taking the extension of
time out. The talk is to limit it to water and
MR. HAMBRIC: But water and sewer we
know -- I mean everyone thinks is hooked up right
away. It's utilities or the state transportation
department won't allow them to, you know --
MS. THOMSEN: I think there's a way
to satisfy both sides in the sense that if the
concern is that the developer isn't doing
everything that they can do to develop the
property in a timely fashion and hanging the hat
on, well, I can't get the infrastructure in place
which sounds as though it's your concern, that
you could limit it to say that provided that all
reasonable efforts have been made by the
developer or the entity developing it to obtain
the infrastructure, not just any reasonable
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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effort but all reasonable efforts, so if there's
something that they should have done that would
have -- almost by definition probably would have
been reasonable, then they can't get an
extension.
MR. ROBERTS: All right. Well,
we'll discuss that. As to page eight we don't
have a problem with your changes. Where the
regulation shall -- I'm sorry. Subsection B of
paragraph three, the last sentence before
subsection C.
MAYOR VORESS: That's on page five.
MR. HAMBRIC: Page five.
MR. ROBERTS: You wanted only to
development that has not occurred prior to the
cutoff date. We had upon expiration of the
cutoff date. And yours is fine.
MR. HAMBRIC: Okay.
MR. ROBERTS: The next item is
subparagraph D. You had suggested that in
consideration of the town's compliances with this
stipulation we would waive any claim as to the
cutoff date, and we can't agree to that because
the consideration for the whole agreement is the
consideration here and that in our view would
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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allow you to wait 9.9 years and at that time you
think that there was some uncompliance that you
could then go into court and challenge the ten
years as a cutoff date, and because the challenge
-- and I can tell you our rationale is because
that challenge was made in the underlying lawsuit
prior to that of Ordinance 282 the ten years and
that there was a challenge to it, and we feel
that it was not appropriate at that time and we
certainly don't want to voluntarily get into a
situation where that may again be challenged
which would again take us back to the starting
point in that litigation, so the consideration
for it is the consideration of entering into the
agreement, not waiting to see whether there's
compliance.
MR. HAMBRIC: Are we reading the
same thing?
MS. THOMSEN: I think we are. We're
on 6D.
MR. HAMBRIC: When I read this,
basically it says when we sign this settlement
agreement or we stipulate to terms of the
settlement agreement that it's ten years. And
after ten years, you know, everybody has to go
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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back to the drawing board.
MS. THOMSEN: Really what it's
intended to do is that provided that the town
lives up to the agreement, then clearly we're
going to live up to the agreement and not going
to bring any claims of constitutionality,
deprivation of rights, et cetera. If it isn't in
consideration of the town's compliance with what
they've agreed to do and it's just in
consideration of the town executing the
agreement, then -- and you have agreed to waive
those rights, then you've waived them merely by
entering into the agreement. So that's the play
in words. And it really seems that clearly
provided that we got -- that the town lived up to
the agreement and the property was able to be
developed and everything went fine, then we would
never raise that claim.
MR. YATES: As it read in your
draft, Mr. Roberts, would it not, Judith, have
said the very same thing that Rusty was
suggesting we could use as an interpretation by
adding that in consideration of the town's
compliance with the stipulation, aren't we giving
it back on the other side? The one side said
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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we've received a consideration. We can't go
back, if I read it without our addition here,
that would say we can't go back and make any
claim. By putting it back in in the beginning of
the sentence, doesn't it just sort of nullify? I
can't imagine how the "in consideration"
appearing twice in this paragraph would work to
either the town's or our benefit in respect to
this narrow issue of the cutoff date and the
rights of going back. We're just restating that
we've had consideration of the town's performing
in accordance with the agreement, we're saying
here as it carries on, are estopped by virtue of
consideration received. It seems to me we've
sort of nullified them.
MR. ROBERTS: I don't read it that
way. Quite frankly --
MR. YATES: Well, I'm not an
attorney so I don't know how in the law this
would be viewed.
MR. ROBERTS: Consideration is
anything of value.
MR. YATES: Just as it would be --
in the terms of we'd be estopped because of that
consideration.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. ROBERTS: And I think Judith has
hit it correctly by saying that the consideration
of execution of the agreement, whatever it may
be, we've given up that right to make any claim
at any later point in time, and it is my view
that by putting a specific consideration of
compliance with the stipulation for the next ten,
fifteen, twenty years, whatever it is, that now
allows you to at any time during that period of
time to say if you're not in compliance I'm going
to complain that that very ten years which is one
of the parts of the agreement is unconstitu-
tional.
MS. THOMSEN: But then how do you
protect the developer from the argument that the
town agrees to ten years and then says they're
not going to honor it. Okay? And under this
paragraph you've waived your right to contest the
dates, even though the town hasn't lived up to
its part of the bargain, by giving you the ten
years to develop it. Otherwise we waived a right
based on a promise as opposed to based on a
promise and performance.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, the thing -- the
point to be made there is if there is a breach by
MUDRICI£, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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the town there are specific remedy provisions in
there that allow you to go to court and get
specific performance, injunctive -- a certain
amount of damage relief. The point of the matter
is is what you're suggesting here is that if I
don't comply, I can do away with the entire
agreement. Okay? And I have never seen that,
quite frankly, in all the settlement agreements
that I've been involved with or any ordinances
where you're given an opportunity you say, gee,
if you don't comply I get to throw it aside, and
I would be remiss to suggest --
MS. THOMSEN: Well, I mean the
reason you're giving up your claim is really
because you feel that you're going to -- that all
of the allegations of damage or deprivations have
been addressed and are going to be taken care of
by performance of the agreement. And so you're
waving the claims that you would have, okay, if
you didn't enter into it. And yet if you waive
it and it isn't contingent upon the things that
you're waiving it for, then you've waived it just
for a promise as opposed to the performance of
it, but we can discuss that, I guess.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, not to belabor
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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it, this only deals with a claim that a cutoff
date is unconstitutional. That's all it deals
with, and that's why I think you ought to
consider that. It's not in any other aspect of
MS. THOMSEN: Well, I mean it seems
to me then it should be perhaps that in
consideration of the town's compliance with
honoring the cutoff dates in the stipulation that
then we waive it, as to the cutoff date. So you
tie the town's compliance only to the cutoff date
because that's what we're waiving it to. And
that is probably a way of tailoring it so that
you don't have to worry about doing anything
other than honoring your cutoff date for us to
waive any rights we have to bring a claim, those
kinds of claims based on the cutoff date. I mean
so that seems to me to be a way that we could
tweak it to serve both parties.
MR. ROBERTS: On paragraph five,
development plans and procedures, you had had
specifically applicable in this agreement.
We had no problem on that, under sub Roman
numeral iii. On small Roman numeral iv you had
deleted --
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MAYOR VORESS: Of the entire
property.
MR. ROBERTS: Of the entire
property.
154
MR. HAMBRIC: Rusty, where are you
again? I don't show a deletion.
MAYOR VORESS: Page eight, on the
top of page eight, the third line down,
development.
MR. YATES: Continued on and said --
MAYOR VORESS: You've deleted of the
entire property.
MR. YATES: Development of the
entire property.
MR. HAMBRIC: Oh, okay.
MAYOR VORESS: See the third
sentence, so long as development?
MR. HAMBRIC: Yes.
MR. ROBERTS: I guess the question
is why.
MR. YATES: I think it may have been
a defined term or something.
MS. THOMSEN: I think it was a
defined term, but I don't know that that gives me
a lot of concern.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. ROBERTS: The next thing was,
continuing on there, we talked about the specific
town code and ordinances that are applicable
under this agreement, and we said the Standard
Building Code, county wide amendments to the
code, town Xeriscape, life safety codes in effect
at the time, and then you said to the extent --
you added, "To the extent they do not conflict
with development parameters or the terms of this
stipulation which will take precedence." And
it's our position that if those apply they apply,
and if there's any conflict between this
agreement, then the building codes would be
applicable. Because they deal with the building,
not the zoning.
MR. HAMBRIC: What is the
Xeriscape?
MR. ROBERTS: It tells you that you
could have plants that don't take a lot of
water.
MAYOR VORESS: That's an issue in
the South Florida Water Management in the water
short areas, Jay.
MS. THOMSEN: I think the only thing
you can do with that is to go back through and
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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look at your, you know, your RPUD and see if
there's anything there that gives you a concern.
MR. HAMBRIC: I mean the whole idea
is we were going to build subject to whatever the
codes for fire safety, building codes, that sort
of thing.
MR. ROBERTS: Yes, but I can't
envision a situation that would occur, but I
can't also say that somehow this is going to take
precedence over --
MR. YATES: Well, to the extent that
you have town code and ordinances, that's
controllable. To the extent you have building
codes which are imposed upon you greater than --
I think the hope was that the developer would
maintain what the town code ordinances were like
the time of the RPUD-2.
MAYOR VORESS: That's why we have
hurricane standards here. We're not going to let
you avoid the hurricane standards. That's a town
code.
MS. THOMSEN: No, but I think what
the concern is, and I understand your point,
Arlin, in terms of you don't want us to build an
unsafe building, et cetera, and I can understand
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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that.
MAYOR VORESS: We cannot do that.
MS. THOMSEN: Right. But the -- and
I think this is kind of with respect to the
relationship of the development of the property
to date, the concern that the town could hinder
the development or enact codes or provisions that
would make the development as it's approved
impractical or too costly to build or whatever
through its powers so that whatever codes and
things we have now to build it with are what we
have to agree to.
MAYOR VORESS: Well, they apply to
all building in town. It's not just one, you
know.
MS. THOMSEN: I'm sure, though, that
that was what the provision was intended to do.
MR. ROBERTS: We're going to skip
over the money and go to impact fees. On
paragraph seven your suggestion is $1,300 per
unit. We don't know where that figure came from,
quite candidly, unless it's just a figure you're
comfortable with because --
MR. HAMBRIC: I think it came from
the massive files of the original litigation.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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Somewhere somebody dug that out.
MR. ROBERTS: It came from
somewhere. It's not what the fees would be on
July 1, 185.
MR. HAMBRIC: What would those fees
be?
MR. ROBERTS: Those fees -- well,
it's difficult to say exactly what those fees are
because some of them are based upon value of
development. Okay? But if you took, for
instance, a development of a unit of what,
$75,000 and included the rest of the fees in
there --
MAYOR VORESS: The plumbing
connections, electrical connections, all other
things are coded to that. It depends how you
build it.
MR. ROBERTS: For 427 units that
would be $1,245,986.
MS. MARIANO: Estimate.
MR. ROBERTS: Estimate because
that's the estimate of value. Your figure of
1,300 a unit would be $555,000. Okay. So we're
talking about a $700,000 difference there based
upon the $75,000 unit.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. YATES: But you're going back to
the 1985 time frame.
MS. MARIANO: Absolutely.
MR. YATES: What would have been the
fees?
MR. ROBERTS: That's what the fees
would be in July 1, 1985.
MR. RAND: As mandated by the
court.
MR. YATES: We worked it out on the
number of units, I thought, and came out to the
13.
MR. HAMBRIC: I mean there's got to
be something in the town records that identify
it. Right?
MS. MARIANO: I have it. I have it
right here.
MR. HAMBRIC: Well, make that an
attachment and say this is what it is.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, see, the --
that's what we did. We said B, payment in
accordance with the schedule in effect on July 1,
1985.
MR. HAMBRIC: It's based on the
schedule. Just get the schedule and we'll attach
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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it to the --
MS. MARIANO: It's not that easy.
MR. HAMBRIC: Yes, it is. How many
copies, make copies, put it behind it. The
developer should be able to read that. Say if I
build ten units! I have these fees. If I build
427 units I'll have these kind of fees and I'm
sure that somebody looks at your building code or
fee structure somewhere when they get ready to
build. Right?
MR. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. HAMBRIC: That's not secret.
Just photocopy it. If it's a foot high, it's a
foot high.
MR. ROBERTS: We'll make that
Exhibit F.
MR. HAMBRIC: Right. Unless they've
gone down and you all want to give us something,
but nothing ever goes down in life, has it,
Rusty?
that.
up.
MR. ROBERTS: I can assure you of
MR. YATES: March 1, 195 it went
MR. ROBERTS: That's why I tried to
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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slip in that July 1, 195.
MR. HAMBRIC: I did see a comment on
that, Rusty. The first person said it was a
typo. The second person said you were a bad guy.
MR. ROBERTS: I didn't catch that.
Okay. The next thing in the approval procedure
is in reviewing over this we felt that the
agreement we submitted was probably deficient in
one area and that is the time limit on the RTC to
approve it. It didn't speak to how long -- the
procedure, as I understand from the agreement
which I don't think there was much controversy
over, is that the town -- we generally come to
somewhat of a consensus, then it would be placed
officially in front of the Town Commission at a
public meeting to vote yea or nay, and if it is
successful the resolution is passed and it goes
back to you.
MR. HAMBRIC: Right.
MR. ROBERTS: Okay? But what the
agreement has, it doesn't say how long you have
to approve it. Okay? Which would leave open the
potential of we could approve it and say yeah,
and then you sit back at Valley Forge and say --
MR. HAMBRIC: I'll tell you within
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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24 hours of getting your proposal, we'll take
action on it.
MR. ROBERTS: You could say let's
see what the court does. If we lose we sign it.
MR. HAMBRIC: Within 24 hours of it
being in my hand, you'll either have it back
signed or you'll have it back.
MR. ROBERTS: Within ten days or
whatever --
MR. HAMBRIC: Whatever you're
comfortable with. If Judith and I are sitting
here, we can do it tonight. Make that one easy
on yourself. Whatever you think is reasonable we
can live with.
MR. ROBERTS: We suggested ten
days. And also once something has already been
discussed, too, is that we need something,
official documentation saying that the person who
signs this is authorized to sign it.
MR. HAMBRIC: I think we've already
got those, as a matter of fact.
MR. ROBERTS: And the next suggested
change was number nine, the comprehensive plan
amendment, you said promptly and we didn't have
any problem with that. Next on paragraph ten you
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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want to make us responsible in court for any
actions of any officials, employees, departments
or agents which materially impedes, interferes,
impairs, stops or slows development of a property
pursuant to the stipulation, and we're just
simply not willing to do that because it's just
too broad of an exposure to us.
MR. HAMBRIC: Guys, one of the
problems we have here and probably none of us in
this room were involved in the original
decisions, but that's the basis of this whole
lawsuit we're settling, so at some point both
sides have to step to the table and say there's a
history involved and that's why we're settling
the agreement. I don't know if anybody was here
when all this took place. I know that Judith and
I and Chris weren't. But I mean that's the basis
for the litigation because the developer felt
like town officials took actions right, wrong or
indifferent. So far the court has said right.
It may change its mind tomorrow, but I mean
that's the purpose of the litigation, so
something has to be addressed to say that if we
sign a settlement agreement, we sell the property
and Arlin decides he's going to pull the zoning
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. ROBERTS: Well, that's precisely
why we've got it in there because it was our
position that that didn't affect you, you know,
that it was only official action that we're
responsible for, and that's why we have it in
there.
MS. THOMSEN: I think whenever, I
mean generally speaking whenever an agent of
yours does something, I mean an agent's acting
for you so that action is attributable to you. I
guess in the same way that if your employees, and
I mean we certainly have employees who take
actions that we may or may not prefer that they
have taken but we are liable for their actions as
their employer, and I guess, you know, whether
you could limit it to within the scope of their
duties in the sense that if someone -- if someone
undertakes an action that is even colorably
within the scope of their duties that is an agent
of ours, an employee, an official, we're
responsible for it. I mean, you know, it stops
with us, and that really is all that that's
intended to do that it -- you know, if someone
does it on your behalf you're responsible for it
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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which I think is really just a recognition of
what the law really is in terms of -- and we
really added in in order for it to be material, I
mean so we would get around, well, what impedes
or interferes, and I am willing to omit slow
because that might be difficult to determine what
slows and what doesn't slow, but if somebody -- I
mean initially when we talked about it we were
talking about the town assisting us in every way
with the development, with it, you know, and I
understand that that may be something that the
town cannot do, but we do need to know that the
town is going to be at our side in terms of the
development of it, and so we added in materially
and we added in just a description of the kinds
of responsibilities that the town would have
through its employees, its officials, its agents,
its departments.
I mean that just is part of the
entity that has hurt the development of the
property as it's defined in the stipulation, and
that really is the intent there. And again,
materially breached. Okay? So if someone does
something, you know, that may or may not have
slowed it or this took a little bit longer, it
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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has to be a material breach of the development
parameters of the property.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, see, that
provision is already in there in paragraph
twelve. The defendant shall not take any action
except as provided herein --
MS. THOMSEN: Except for the
remedies. I mean remedies are what we can do in
the event or the person aggrieved can do in the
event that something goes wrong, and I mean one
of the things that there isn't again a remedy for
is even the -- I mean there are a couple of
things that we have a remedy for under the
agreement, but, for example, we don't have it for
the cutoff fees, so the town could in fact not
honor its provision with respect to the cutoff
fees and we wouldn't be able to go in and get a
hearing with the magistrate even though that's
clearly the understanding of the parties and part
of the agreement, but that would not be available
to us, we'd be back to square one starting a new
lawsuit because it isn't part of the remedy
section.
MR. ROBERTS: Which section is
that? Cutoff fees?
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MS. THOMSEN: In other words, you in
your remedy section --
MR. ROBERTS: Right.
MS. THOMSEN: -- indicated a number
of --
MR. HAMBRIC: You said cutoff fees.
MS. THOMSEN: I'm sorry?
MR. HAMBRIC: You said cutoff fees.
MS. THOMSEN: I meant impact fees.
For example, that's just an example, an area in
which we wouldn't have any remedy, we would
really have to go back to square one and start a
lawsuit, and so the remedy provision is very
important in terms of enforcing the understanding
of the parties, and we tried to make it even
handed in terms of it being any material
violation or breach of the terms and conditions
and that it would have to materially have done --
impeded, interfered with, impaired or stopped.
MR. ROBERTS: Well --
MS. THOMSEN: It would just seem to
me that we have a history of having had problems
in developing the property. The last thing I
would think a developer would want to do would be
to get into a fight with the town in terms of
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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developing the property. They're going to need
to work with the town. They're going to want
things to go smoothly because otherwise they're
going to be tied up without being able to
benefit, realize the benefit of their bargain.
And all we want is that if in fact the -- because
it's a continuing agreement as opposed to a walk
away, you know, we'll exchange money and walk
away, we need -- there needs to be protection in
terms of what happens if in fact the provisions
are not adhered to.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, I think that we
have certainly in our suggestion had a pretty
broad base of things there, and certainly to the
extent that there is a violation of the impact
fees and if that must be specifically added, then
I don't think there would be a problem there, but
there is to me or to the Commission an indication
that in the letter that initiated this process --
that one of the letters that initiated this
process everybody is going to use their best
efforts and I think that's consistent with it,
but when you sit there and say -- use general
terms such as impeded or slowed and you allege
that I have been impeded, we're back in court
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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solely upon the fact that some developer has been
impeded in doing something, that to me is back to
square one litigation especially when it's taken
in conjunction with the next request that you --
payment of monetary damages or any sums due or
the enumeration of specific remedies herein shall
not preclude plaintiffs or any other owner of
pursuing any other remedies or receiving any
other relief. That simply to me does just
exactly what you've told me you don't want to do
is end up back in court. That gives the ability
of the subsequent owner if things go bad to walk
back up in a non -jury proceeding and say they've
impeded me, I want eighteen million dollars.
MR. HAMBRIC: If things go bad
because the town took some action to stop the
development of the property, and, guys, that's
what the original lawsuit is about. It's very
difficult for me to sign a settlement agreement
based on a history that says we'll sign a
settlement agreement, parties will change hands
and then tomorrow the town could do something and
put the other developer that I may be lending
money to back in the same position as the RTC was
in.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MS. THOMSEN: And all it does is it
allows you to go and argue in front of a
magistrate. It doesn't say what the magistrate
does or doesn't do, and so there a magistrate
like any judge is going to have to interpret what
is material, and if it isn't material then it
isn't a violation of the agreement that allows
them to do anything.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, in response to
your comment, the reason we got into litigation
because there wasn't a settlement agreement,
there was no particular documentation, and it was
everybody's interpretation of what that -- and
that's why the litigation and that's why we're
working on a settlement agreement which would
clearly define, and to the extent and our purpose
is if there can be a clear definition of the
rights and obligations of each other, then it's
easier for each party to live up to those
obligations if they're crystal clear, and to the
extent that you make them not crystal clear and
use generalities, then you lead to litigation.
So that's why we have done and our suggestion is
make specific reference to if there's some other
portion of it. So this commission as well as all
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. HAMBRIC: Guys, you're pushing
on a deal breaker. I'll be honest with you. I
mean if that's the case that's the case, but I
can't in good conscience commit to give up rights
based on the history of what's happened with the
property in the past. And there is some
intangibles in the world. I mean, Rusty, it's
nice to be as clearly defined as you can, but I
think there are intangibles in the world and I
mean slowed, if you come in and a building
official says I want you to fill out the forms
properly, when Judith and I were going over this
maybe slow is the wrong word. If you don't fill
out the forms properly, it's the developer's
fault, it's not the town. Materially. But if
the town took those documents and didn't act on
them for a year, then I think they've materially
affected development of the property. I'm
afraid -- not afraid I expect to hold a mortgage
on this property, and that puts me back at risk
again being in business with the Town of Highland
Beach where I've settled a lawsuit and now I
can't go and do anything about it. So we need
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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the ability or the developer needs the ability to
go in front of the magistrate and say these are
the things that happened, and if the magistrate
says no, you were not materially harmed, go back,
comply with what the commissioner or the town is
telling you to do, then there's no harm, no
foul. But if he was impeded, there should be
damages, someone should suffer for that.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, if in fact you
went to the magistrate and said here's my
agreement, here's what they have not done under
the agreement, you wouldn't have any litigation,
would you? Because if it's crystal clear the
magistrate can say and hopefully that those
people who are sitting on the other side will say
that. Because it is crystal clear. But if you
come in and say, you know, Joe Shmow developer,
construction company comes in and says I've been
slowed, I've been harmed, how does the town
respond to that? Okay?
MR. HAMBRIC: We've already said
we'll drop slowed because that's not probably
relevant, slowed, but -- I lost my train of
thought.
MR. ROBERTS: You're talking about
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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materially and that means nothing to me.
MR. HAMBRIC: Well, it does to me,
Rusty. I guess maybe I'm more of a business
oriented person than a lawyer. I know it -- it's
like the pornography argument. I know it when I
see it. I know what materially is. I assume all
of you gentlemen come from some professional
background. I think all of you know what
material means in your own minds.
MS. THOMSEN: I mean in the law, of
course, there are standards in which it's
interpreted by the situation, whether it is the
reasonable man, whether it's making all
reasonable efforts, whether it is material
breach. And because you cannot anticipate
everything that's going to happen, you have to
have what is a standard in any agreement that
then fits into either being material or
immaterial, reasonable or unreasonable, and
that's about the best you can do because you
can't define up front everything that's going to
happen, and, you know, if there's another
standard that you have that you want to -- we
can, you know, try to massage the language a
little bit, I think that we don't -- it shouldn't
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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be for anything other than material. All it does
is get you in front of a magistrate to argue it.
And in terms of damages or any monetary relief or
anything that you're given, it really is -- the
burden is going to be on the other party to prove
it so it doesn't get you anything. It just gets
you an opportunity to be heard. That's all it
does.
MR. RAND: Judy, under this you make
reference to the fact that the plaintiff or the
owner alleges -- in other words, anyone can come
in and make an allegation and based on his
allegation without any proof or any input on our
part that he can proceed with litigation. That
doesn't make any sense. It's one-sided. Don't
we have a right to try to remedy any situation
that might occur of that nature?
MS. THOMSEN: I don't have any
problem with that.
MR. RAND: Perhaps if there is
something which materially affects the agreement,
shouldn't we at least have the recourse to listen
to the problem and the Town Commission to decide
whether or not there's any merit to any such
allegation?
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MS. THOMSEN: And that would be fine
with us.
MR. RAND: You're making it one-
sided. You're saying if someone makes the
allegation and that's it. We don't have any --
MS. THOMSEN: I drew it for my side,
but I would be more than happy to modify it to
add if there's a cure provision that you want, a
time framework.
MR. RAND: I think they should do
that.
MS. THOMSEN: That's fine. I don't
have any problem with that. I think they should
make any effort --
MR. HAMBRIC: Mr. Rand, it's back to
the reasonable man argument. I think what you
say is reasonable and we ought to put it in.
MR. RAND: Okay. The other
objection I have, if you'll allow me, Mr.
Roberts --
MR. ROBERTS: Sure.
MR. RAND: -- the part here the
parties shall not -- the remedies herein shall
not preclude the plaintiffs or any other owner
from pursuing any other remedies or receiving any
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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other relief. Now, I don't know the reason why
that has to be included. You are being given
sufficient remedies under this arrangement, under
this settlement agreement to seek remedies in the
event that there's any non-compliance with this
agreement. So I don't understand why you have
that additional comment about pursuing any other
remedies. It should be the remedies as provided
in this agreement. What other remedies are you
making reference to?
MS. THOMSEN: I think the reason
that provision is there -- what you're talking
about is we have a contractual arrangement with
the town as a basis -- as a basis of a settlement
stipulation.
MR. RAND: Correct.
MS. THOMSEN: And what the remedy
provision has done is it has set up a process to
get relief or to make an argument or to have a
hearing with regard to the contractual
provisions. There may well be other rights that
we or the developer has merely by being a
developer in your town that are not defined or
discussed in the settlement stipulation, and as a
consequence of not being discussed or assigned
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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there they continue to exist. In other words,
the fact that you have rights under a contract
doesn't take away any other rights that you may
have as a citizen of that community or whatever
your standing is and so they have other rights
that are not covered by this agreement.
MR. RAND: Well, that's what I don't
understand. If we have an agreement and we are
indicating what remedies are available to you in
the event of non-compliance, I don't see why
there should be the pursuit of any other remedies
or receiving any other relief.
MR. HAMBRIC: Would that be, Judith,
something, an appeal to the building commissioner
or an appeal to someone else? If a permit is
denied is there -- I'm assuming there's something
else in the town, an appellate process.
MS. THOMSEN: You may have statutory
rights that we clearly haven't enumerated, things
that they can or cannot do. In other words,
because all you're discussing really are the
rights that have been specifically agreed to in
this agreement and it's an agreement that
anticipates being in effect and covering a course
of conduct for a ten-year period of time. There
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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may be other statutory rights or any kind of
rights that these parties have that they don't
want to waive merely by having a contractual
arrangement and remedies set forth with respect
to the rights under that agreement.
MS. MARIANO: Let me just make a
comment because when we talk about the rights,
when I look at the original draft, I don't have
it right with me what you originally said to us,
but as you'll recall, there was a point where we
were asked to give up rights of the constitution
and they were specific in here so we have to --
MS. THOMSEN: I'm sorry. I didn't
really hear that.
MR. ROBERTS: Judith, I think the
concern here is that because it is contained in
the provisions which indicates that if there is
a -- in the same section of the remedies and it
talks about employees materially slowing or
agents materially slowing, stopping, impeding or
interfering, their actions without any connection
of whether they're in the scope and course of
their employment or whatever, if the
allegations -- then the town may be subject to
other specific remedies not herein provided which
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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would include filing a civil rights claim in
federal court, and that is something the town
does not want to agree to to go back and start
from square one, and this provision in my view
allows that to occur.
MS. THOMSEN: I think that if we've
waived the rights which I thought we did to
contest the constitutionality of certain
provisions, then they're waived. That doesn't
mean that saying shall not preclude them from any
other remedies, anything that we've given up in
the agreement, we've given up. Anything that we
haven't given up in the agreement that we have by
virtue of any other role or any other
relationship, we continue to have. In other
words, the agreement really relates to what we're
going to do with respect to the terms that the
town's agreed to and the terms that we've agreed
to in developing the property. It's not to
create anything new for us. It is really just
preserving what we otherwise have in law or in
equity, whether it's a statutory right, something
that, you know, that is passed by the State of
Florida five years from now or the municipality
of Highland Beach, it's not creating anything.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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It really is just saying that you haven't given
that up or haven't given up those rights.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, why don't we go
on to the next one. In number twelve, paragraph
twelve we agreed to, "The defendants shall adopt
no moratoria or any other form of zoning." You
added "or other constraint." We don't know what
other constraint is.
MR. HAMBRIC: I'm ambivalent about
that. Tell me what my down side is for that,
Judith. I'm not sure.
MS. THOMSEN: It really -- again, it
clearly would be a moratorium on building or
zoning. And it is just again the intent to make
sure that you don't make an agreement with one
hand and then play games with the other.
MR. HAMBRIC: You can have a zoning
to build 427 units, but then you can say you
can't hook anything up to the water system, that
we're not allowing any additional hook-ups to the
water and sewer.
MS. THOMSEN: And it has to be
contrary to the development parameters. And it
really just relates to --
MR. HAMBRIC: Is that a live or die
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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with you?
MS. THOMSEN: No, it isn't a live or
die but I think that really it goes back to --
MR. HAMBRIC: Well, when we all
break to talk about language, we'll cover that
issue.
MR. ROBERTS: It talks about,
"Constraints upon the property of the development
contrary to the development parameters which
shall or may impair or interfere directly or
indirectly in any manner whatsoever with the sale
or development of the property except as provided
herein." I mean --
MR. HAMBRIC: Like I said, we'll
visit when we --
MR. RAND: Okay. You'll look at
that one.
MR. ROBERTS: The next thing is --
MS. THOMSEN: This, I don't know,
Rusty, on page eleven under cooperation, I
thought that the change was in there. I just
wanted to make sure. "The defendant shall use
its best efforts to cooperate in any efforts by
the owner." I just wanted to make sure -- I
don't know if that is agreeable to you or
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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whatever, but I just didn't want to pass on that
without knowing where we stand on that.
MR. ROBERTS: That's fine. Well, I
mean "with any owner" is down there in the last
sentence.
MR. HAMBRIC: It is.
MAYOR VORESS: Where are we now,
under mutual releases?
MR. ROBERTS: Paragraph 13.
MR. YATES: 13, page eleven.
MS. MARIANO: 17 of Rusty's.
MS. THOMSEN: I don't think it
matters.
MAYOR VORESS: We're in good shape
with that.
MR. ROBERTS: We're talking about
mutual releases and dismissal of appeals, and
from a general principle you want the appeal
dismissed at the outset and we can't do that
because once the appeal is dismissed, then the
underlying judgment is valid and that's too much
of a risk to us because what happens between the
dismissal of the appeal and the court entering
the judgment is the time frame which anything
could happen.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MS. THOMSEN: I think as long as --
really it seems to me that as long as everything
takes place simultaneously that --
MR. ROBERTS: Well, it can't. I
mean you have to -- as I understand appellate
practice, you'd have to relinquish jurisdiction
but not dismiss the appeal to go back to the
Court, and I think the Court would enter the
order as a matter of course but if a federal
judge is appointed for life, you never know what
happens.
MS. THOMSEN: I know.
MR. ROBERTS: So once the order is
entered, then obviously that negates the appeal
by force of law, just by happening. Okay?
MS. THOMSEN: Why don't we look at
that.
MR. ROBERTS: Timing wise on the
money I mean this is tied up, you've got here
upon -- we have the releases effective as of the
order date, you say upon payment of all sums due,
and, you know, that really depends upon when
payment occurs.
MS. THOMSEN: Right, exactly.
MR. ROBERTS: It may occur at the
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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same time, but certainly we understand that a
release would not be executed if there was money
to be paid in the future to release you from
paying money. The same thing with E on when the
satisfaction of judgment is made, and again this
goes to the principle in our view that this
agreement is entitled -- is envisioned to control
the relationships between us two parties and that
anything that went on before is water under the
dam. And that to hold a satisfaction of judgment
over is not consistent with that thought. We
have a new agreement. We've given you certainly
under this new agreement which we feel are
generous benefits to run to the court in a
non -jury proceeding, and, quite frankly, we agree
with that, and if there's some breach to it we
want it determined quickly and that's why we came
up with the penalty phase in there. You know, we
don't want to drag this out. If you think -- or
your people think there's something wrong and we
disagree, we want it determined quickly to get it
out of the way and that's why we've agreed to
that, but to sit here and say, well, I'm going to
hold all these other things over your head we
feel is inconsistent with that theory of the
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. HAMBRIC: Let me ask a
question. I mean if the town can't pay the money
all at once and you give me a million dollars
today, the Court comes back tomorrow and finds a
unanimous decision on the town's side on what
keeps you from that point of then saying, well,
we're not going to go ahead and fund the other X
number of dollars whatever that is.
MR. ROBERTS: You go right back to
-- I mean assuming in your scenario that we have
agreed this has been approved by the Court you
mean?
MR. HAMBRIC: I guess I'm lost on
the logistics somehow. I mean typical to dealing
with a debtor is someone they walk in and hand
you the money, everybody just shakes hands and
leaves, here's your note, here's your property
back, everybody's happy and we leave. When you
finance some kind of settlement, you're always
holding something back to make sure that the
party that you're settling with finishes or
completes the funding of the settlement, and
that's what I'm looking for, Rusty.
MR. RAND: You're going to have a
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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court ordered judgment requiring us to pay.
MR. ROBERTS: All you have to do is
enforce the judgment.
MR. HAMBRIC: In what amount?
MR. ROBERTS: That will be specified
what are we agreeing to pay.
MS. THOMSEN: In other words, what
you end up with, though -- if you get your money,
I mean this is the argument we had in the very
beginning which is if you can do things
simultaneously and have money in hand or
settlement stipulation in escrow or something
like that, then you -- or judgment in escrow, you
have what is really what you're used to which is
a closing where you give me what I want and I
give you what you want, but when you have a
settlement, and this is something we do fairly
often, we don't settle with people to get paid
out for a lesser sum of money and then be in the
position of suing them to try to get the lesser
sum of money instead of the sum of money that we
originally had. So there has to be a mechanism
where we just aren't giving up our rights and
then are back in court suing you for trying to
get the five -- whatever amount of money we agree
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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to, and maybe it can be done with some type of an
escrow arrangement or whatever. We want -- we
would prefer to do the deal. We don't want to go
back and haggle about anything else. We want the
sum of money agreed to and nothing more, but we
don't want to be suing to get it because we've
signed it and agreed to it and we haven't been
paid it.
MR. ROBERTS: If you file a suit to
collect on one of your notes, okay, what's your
ultimate goal by going to the court?
MS. THOMSEN: To collect.
MR. ROBERTS: To get a judgment.
Right?
MS. THOMSEN: To get a judgment in
that amount.
MR. ROBERTS: The Court is not going
to collect it for you. To get a judgment in that
amount.
MR. HAMBRIC: At this point we
already have a judgment.
MR. ROBERTS: But what I'm saying
when you go to sue on something, you go to court
and sue to get a judgment. In this case you've
already got the judgment specifying the amount.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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We've given you right beyond that first step. So
now if you have a judgment saying we're going to
pay a million dollars in one year and a million
in two years, the second one doesn't get paid,
you can go in there and say, Judge, hold them in
contempt because they haven't paid the judgment,
and that's what the judge will do. Okay? You've
already got your judgment. You've skipped step
one. What more could you want?
MS. THOMSEN: What you've done is
you've entered in an agreement for delayed
payment reducing -- what you've done is you have
-- rather than getting paid the amount of
judgment that you had you've entered into an
agreement to take, what, fifty percent of it,
twenty-five percent of what your judgment is to
be paid in the course of a year, and then what do
you have, you have the opportunity to be in
lawsuit again, only then your up side is not the
twenty million you have but the five million you
have. You're back to where you were because you
didn't get paid out. You compromised what you
had for something of much less value, and now you
have the opportunity to be fighting over getting
paid again.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. HAMBRIC: I think this comes
back in when we talk about -- I know the last
time we met we went on with this philosophical
discussion, we went away from looking at terms,
it went into cash. That way everybody could go
away with one time payment. I think maybe that's
the issue, when you talk about the money that may
resolve this issue.
MR. ROBERTS: I mean this is just --
I think we've gone far afield from what we're
talking about. These provisions really relate to
some sort of security as Chris says. And we're
not giving you any security because we're giving
you better than any security we could ever give
you. We're giving you a judgment in advance.
MS. THOMSEN: For the full amount of
the judgment that we already have.
MR. HAMBRIC: You're giving me a
judgment for the settlement amount and if you
don't comply to the settlement amount --
MR. ROBERTS: If we're back to that
point, we can just call it quits and leave right
now.
MR. HAMBRIC: But that's the
discussion, Rusty, if you want to call it quits
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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and walk out, that's fine, but that's the
discussion we worked through the night we met
over at the Hilton or the Hyatt, wherever we
were. We never got past how you handle do I have
a twenty million dollar judgment or do I have a
five million dollar deal. That's kind of how we
evolved in the idea of let's get away from
sliding scales, let's get away from term
payments. Let's look at something that pays
everybody out at one time and then you don't have
all these arguments.
MR. EYPEL: Hold on a second. I'd
like to say something if I may here. I've
listened and I'm trying to interpret here what's
being said. And I think we have some folks here
who really don't understand a few of the issues,
and I'm going to be very candid with you. Mr.
Hambric, in all the communications that I've seen
over the years, and I've been on this commission
for the last four and a half years, you referred
in your letter that you would like to have this
money wire transferred into your account and
you're now talking about moneys being paid to you
immediately so that you do not have to sue for a
judgment or whatever. Do you know the size of
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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this town, Mr. Hambric?
MR. HAMBRIC:
MR. EYPEL:
assets are?
191
Do you know how much --
Yes.
Do you know what our
MR. HAMBRIC: I don't know your
assets. I know the size of the town.
MR. EYPEL: Sir, there is no way
that we could pay you that sum of money tonight
or tomorrow or next week because we don't have
it, Mr. Hambric. This is a very small town.
MR. HAMBRIC: We understand that.
MR. EYPEL: And I think you're
accustomed to dealing with Baltimore and New York
and Chicago where people can write you checks for
ten million, twenty million, and say thank you
very much. We're talking about small potatoes
here.
MR. HAMBRIC: Commissioner, I'll
take your bonds as opposed to New York and
Baltimore bonds next time you issue some. We
understand that there's going to be a closing
period of time and it will take you some time to
borrow money or do other things to raise funds,
and that was the idea when I says that we'll have
a closing, when we sign an agreement it takes
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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thirty days, twenty-five days, sixty days, we
recognize it will take you a period of time to do
the funding. Our concern has always been, and
again no reflection on anyone sitting in this
room, but the concern has always been if I was
the town and I want to be a bad guy, I agree to
pay five million dollars over -- if it's sixty
days, two days or whatever the time frame is, I
agree to pay five million dollars. The court
comes back and says, RTC, you have no claim. At
that point I would tell RTC I've paid you a
million dollar down payment, go fight for the
rest because you'll win four million dollars or
let me flip it, I'm going the wrong way. The
court comes back we win twenty million dollars,
we've entered into an agreement for five million
dollars, we give up our right to go after the
twenty if the town defaults on the five.
MR. RAND: Mr. Hambric, where do you
give up your right? If we only pay a million and
we're supposed to pay you two and we only pay you
a million and then default on the agreement, then
there is no settlement.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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-- and Judith is saying, if Jay owes me a hundred
bucks and I try to collect from him, I'm not able
to collect from him and I have an agreement with
him, okay, pay me ten bucks, we agree to that and
we write a document that says I'll pay him ten
bucks, and then Jay doesn't pay me the ten bucks,
when I go back to court I only get the ten
dollars rather than a hundred. Is that what
you're saying?
MR. HAMBRIC: You articulated that
better than I did.
MAYOR VORESS: And what you're
saying is that if there is -- if you people can't
trust the town, you still want to be able to go
back and get the hundred bucks.
MR. HAMBRIC: Right.
MAYOR VORESS: Rather than the ten
dollars. Is that basically what I'm --
MR. HAMBRIC: That's correct.
MAYOR VORESS: -- I'm hearing from
you? Is that making any sense?
MR. RAND: But if the agreement, if
you have a settlement agreement which calls for
payment of X amount of dollars and we only pay a
portion of it and then for one reason or another
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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we don't pay the balance or default on it, then
this agreement is null and void, in which case
you're not relinquishing your rights.
MR. HAMBRIC: Is that what the
agreement says though?
MR. YATES: If it says that I think
that would be fine. But I don't think it says
this is null and void and we go back to the
existing litigation judgment.
MS. THOMSEN: I believe we agreed to
dismissing the action and everything else so that
our judgment that we had -- if that were the
case, I'd be just absolutely comfortable.
MR. RAND: If the court orders us to
pay you two and a half million dollars, okay?
And we give you a million up front and we don't
pay you the million and a half within the time
frame agreed upon. Okay? Then there is a
default in that judgment, in that court order, is
there not? Is that not the case? Okay. So you
have remedies then.
MS. THOMSEN: We do but what we're
doing, I mean we're still arguing over when we're
getting paid. What we've done is we've released
our rights for any other amount of money and
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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we're still not paid, we're just arguing over
getting paid. We're still trying to exercise our
rights to get paid. And that's the difference.
MR. RAND: Jay has been -- I feel a
little annoyed by the implication of the remarks,
you keep referencing to the fact with how you've
been dealt with or how your client has been dealt
with over the years. This commission has had
nothing whatsoever to do with this litigation as
you know and neither have you. Now, we have
invited you to come before us to give you a clear
cut demonstration, all of us here ensemble to
tell you that we are genuinely interested in
reaching a settlement. Otherwise we wouldn't be
interested in wasting your time or our time. So
we're just trying to discuss between us what sort
of settlement would be mutually satisfactory that
we come away both sides satisfied that we made a
good deal. As of right now you have no
judgment. The Court has vacated the judgment.
So we're trying to find a way now to reach an
amicable settlement with you, but by virtue of
the remarks that you're making, you're implying
that you don't have trust in us and I think
that's an unfair statement to make.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. HAMBRIC: Well, I think that's
an unfair statement for you to say that. For the
last two years I've met with Mayor Voress maybe
quarterly to try to make sure we have open
communication, that the Mayor and the Town
Commission did not have anything to do with these
decisions, that the RTC did not make these
decisions, that we've both been thrown into a
battle that neither one of us drew the sword.
We're now fighting over something that someone
else put us into that position, but, again,
representing the federal government and the
federal taxpayers, there's a history involved
with the town and the settlement and the
development of this property.
MR. RAND: There's a history
involved with the prior commission, not with this
commission. There's a big difference.
MR. HAMBRIC: But it's the town I'm
dealing with and I understand that, and I don't
think that anybody -- there's a person without
honor among us, but at the same time I have to
represent my client, the taxpayers. And it's
very difficult for me to go back when the GAO,
the Congress, the IG and everybody audits me, and
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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if this deal falls apart, for some reason it
falls apart, I mean you and I are still going to
be friends and walk away from this place if it
falls apart, but someone is then going to come in
and say, RTC, you gave up your rights to a
transaction. Why did you do that? It would be
very difficult for me to get in front of a
Congressional committee much like you're sitting
here, sitting down looking up and saying, well,
gentlemen, I thought everybody was a good guy, it
would all work out and we shook hands, and, you
know, a man's handshake is his deal.
Unfortunately not everything goes that way. And,
again, I'm not indicting anyone on my side or
your side. That's just the way business works
sometimes.
MS. THOMSEN: And unfortunately also
we don't have the comfort, of course you don't
know what you'd be dealing with as a developer,
we don't know who the Commissioners are going to
be throughout the course of this development
necessarily. I mean that kind of is exemplified
by the litigation to some extent in that there
was a change in management of the town.
MR. RAND: This commission is going
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. HAMBRIC: I've got to close the
RTC office by December of this year and we've
both decided before this time I guess he's
running again, we've both made this our mission
we're going to settle this before either one of
us goes on to our next life so --
VICE MAYOR PAUL: What you said
about future commissions, I think in our
discussions previously among ourselves one thing
we are trying to do in this is make it so that
down the line some other people sitting like us
aren't faced with the same thing that we are
faced with now, and I have to say I very much
resent you implying that the town has mistreated
people through the ages on this property because
in many cases they have not been -- they have
never come and been strictly turned down by --
told they could not build something.
MR. HAMBRIC: Again, listen, guys,
I'll bend over if you all want to whip me, if you
want to take a whip and whip me I'll take it
because that's part of my job, but the truth of
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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the matter is there is a litigation history that
says the developer was harmed. Now, right now
that's at the appellate level, but we all have to
agree at some point and the Court some time said
the developer was harmed, but, again, no one here
did that, and I'm not implying anyone would do
anything wrong in the future. I'm just stating
the facts of what has happened in the past and
those facts have been upheld by the Court and
they're currently under review again by the
Court. The Court may change its mind. I mean
that's factual at this point. I'm not saying
anyone did anything wrong. I don't mean to
offend anyone here and I' m not offended if you
think I'm offending you.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: I believe we need
a break at this point.
MAYOR VORESS: I was going to say
maybe two things.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Can I ask you a
question?
MR. HAMBRIC: Yes, sir.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: You said you
represent the taxpayers of this country?
MR. HAMBRIC: Yes, sir.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. AUGENSTEIN: Could you explain
to me how you represent the taxpayers of Highland
Beach?
MR. HAMBRIC: I represent two
hundred sixty million citizens of the United
States.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: I didn't ask you
that, sir.
MR. HAMBRIC: I'll tell you what.
At one point when Gonzalez was chair of the
banking committee his general counsel called and
she made the comment, she said this is a small
town, and I said, yes, I understand that, and am
I supposed to represent seven thousand taxpayers
or two hundred sixty million Americans, and she
said your job is to represent the federal
taxpayers, not on the local level. And I have
empathy and sympathy for you. I mean everyone
forgets I've got this job, but I've got to mail a
check here next week and I'm in the same boat as
everybody else.
MS. MARIANO: Let's -- I think some
of this is kind of off to the sides, but let's
just say one thing. We are trying to arrive at
something that is acceptable for both parties. I
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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keep hearing implications of, you know, what's
the down side, what's the down side, and
implications, well, you know, we're giving up
twenty million for five and then we have to get
you five. Let's also consider the down side that
you may be getting whatever it is the Commission
decides to give you versus getting nothing and no
development parameters at all, so let's -- we
know our risks and we just want to be sure you
know your risks.
MR. HAMBRIC: I get paid to know my
I know my risks, trust me.
MS. THOMSEN: We have advised about
MAYOR VORESS: Can I call a time out
for a second, please? I think two things. One,
I think we probably need to break for something
to eat, and, secondly, I think, Jay, you made a
suggestion let's go on, we'll move on about this
issue when we get around, the money may resolve
some of the things, so let's if the Commission
agrees, let's move on and would everybody like to
have something to eat at this point in time?
MR. ROBERTS: Why don't we do this,
Mayor. Let me suggest that I think we're at
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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loggerheads at this, quite frankly. We'd like to
get to you our thoughts on the building
parameters, so I'll just tell them to you and you
can mull them over so we can more intelligently
discuss.
If we go to the Exhibit B, we don't
have a problem with the additions and deletions
and the heading or the paragraph one. I think
there's disagreement about going to eighteen
stories. I guess one question was, was it twelve
feet stories total residential or just twelve
feet parking stories.
MR. HAMBRIC: Rusty, I'll have to
look somewhere on that. I'm not sure. I'll tell
you what came up -- two parking stories, I don't
know if those are traditionally twelve feet or
ten feet.
MR. ROBERTS: It could be read two
ways.
MR. HAMBRIC: I mean I'm willing to
say ten feet except when I called Arlin or
dropped him a note last time when we talked to
some land use people, they said it may be better
use of the property to build two towers as
opposed to three and two towers were better
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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suited, you needed sixteen buildable stories, is
that right, sixteen?
MAYOR VORESS: Yes.
MR. HAMBRIC: Sixteen buildable
stories and the garage, so we were again trying
to develop this envelope to tell developers if
you want to go three, that's okay. If you want
to go with two, that's okay, but here's your
ceiling in any event, whether you go three or
two.
MAYOR VORESS: The confusion is the
twelve feet here. If it's twelve feet for
eighteen stories, it's different than if it's
twelve feet for two stories or ten feet for
sixteen.
MR. HAMBRIC: I'm thinking again it
would be cheaper to build two ten -story parking
garages than twelve story which is a lot of
concrete and steel to park a car under. But I
think we can work -- twelve for residential. I
think we can clear that up.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, again, there was
confusion on that. There's certainly some
resistance to eighteen stories when sixteen was
seemingly discussed before. As far as the east
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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parcel, too, the ten -foot story we thought was
significant because otherwise, you know, it could
be three stories without any limitation, could be
again 36, 45, 58 feet depending on how high the
stories you put.
MR. HAMBRIC: That's something we
probably need to work out and clear up, but I
think in the original plan there were atrium
ceilings or something so you couldn't build if
you did it at the ten feet. Or the cathedral
ceiling or atrium ceiling. So that --
MR. ROBERTS: Atrium ceiling on the
three-story building? Who knows? Okay. Let me
just also the setback of -- you wanted thirty
feet on C. That was fine. As far as building in
the setback thirty on --
MAYOR VORESS: On the east side and
f orty --
MS. MARIANO: And forty on the west
side.
MR. ROBERTS: Okay. As far as
amenities, we would suggest a ten -foot setback
for that.
MR. HAMBRIC: Tennis courts,
shuffleboard?
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. ROBERTS: Yes.
MR. HAMBRIC: Sounds reasonable.
MR. ROBERTS: There wasn't a lot of
agreement on the size of the units suggested by
you of 1,400 square foot for a three-bedroom
seemed awfully small and inconsistent with the
aesthetics of the town as a general principle.
MR. HAMBRIC: Again, Rusty, I think
the developer will come in and this is trying to
build a floor, I wouldn't expect if I was a
builder I just -- I doubt if anything is 1,400
square foot and built for a three-bedroom but I
don't want to limit myself. There may be some
units on the bottom floors that aren't as nice as
the units on the top floors but --
MR. ROBERTS: Well, I mean we were
thinking, you know, that's certainly a topic of
discussion because I mean I don't know what the
RPUD, I think the RPUD units were bigger than
that, quite frankly, and I think the code in 185
was, you know, more consistent with ours, too,
so --
MR. HAMBRIC: I can't remember, but
I thought they were smaller.
MR. ROBERTS: They were small in the
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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original one, okay? But then when the --
MR. HAMBRIC: That was the 600 units
when it moved down to the other number.
MR. ROBERTS: When they moved to the
620 they got bigger.
MR. YATES: We looked at a sampling
of units in your marketplace right now and that's
how we came up with it.
MR. HAMBRIC: These came from the
comps. They came from the comps.
MR. ROBERTS: I mean you can tell
that we need further discussion on that. On
number seven we were unsure as to why you wanted
to delete "as adopted by the town" or "as
applicable to development of the town."
MR. HAMBRIC: That's not deleted in
mine.
MS. THOMSEN: That's why you have
this here. That is deleted.
MS. MARIANO: We can't delete that
because that deals with county impact taxes.
MR. HAMBRIC: Judith says that's not
a very big issue.
MR. ROBERTS: Again we're in the
$1,300 per unit. I think that was it as far as
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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the -- that area, and then the only other thing
is, you know, I think really, and I suggest
before we break that we really kind of broach
that subject as far as money. We feel at this
time and to be candid with you, 2.5 million
dollars as you can see the construction of that
is something we can come up with in cash.
Anything beyond that we have to go into financing
and stuff like that and a variety of different
things, none of which, as Commissioner Eypel
says, is available. And so we kind of feel that,
you know, we made our best offer and you've come
back and said our offer is still the same, so
we're looking for some movement on your part and
some suggestions for options.
MR. HAMBRIC: Okay. Let's define
immediately available first. Cash reserves --
MR. ROBERTS: It's available as
suggested in our offer. Okay?
MR. HAMBRIC: Okay. But while you
all have a break and have dinner, I'm assuming --
I've made a couple of phone calls to a few city
governments, and I understand you can borrow
money, city governments can borrow money, go to
Barnett Bank and borrow money, and I guess you
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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can pledge water revenues or something, there's a
vehicle for city governments to borrow money.
MR. ROBERTS: Finish. And I'll
MR. HAMBRIC: I'm assuming there's a
vehicle, if the dollar's ten million dollars,
five million dollars or three million dollars, if
there's some parts you don't have in cash reserve
you can't write a check for that there's a
vehicle available to do that in a timely
fashion.
MR. ROBERTS: Okay. In response to
that, as Commissioner Eypel tried to imply to
you, this town is different from most other towns
because its only source of revenue is ad valorem
taxation, water sewer revenues -- Boynton Beach
up here when we checked into this in the
Tradewinds matter passed a revenue bond and not
in accordance with ad valorem taxation and it
avoids them having to go to referendum. State
law says that if you use ad valorem taxation,
you've got to do bonds, you've got to do a
referendum. Okay? Even if the court orders it,
okay, it's our view that, sure, the court orders
it, but we still have to comply with that and we
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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have to do a bond issue. Even if we could
circumvent the referendum. In a bond issue, to
float a bond issue in this town would not get you
any money before next April. Okay? It's just
physically impossible. Okay?
Now, if you went out and said, gee,
I want to borrow this money in anticipation of
this and not having a judgment, you know,
that's -- it's the same thing as a bond. Okay?
The only source of revenue this town has is ad
valorem taxation, and that throws into all of the
state problems you've got to deal with. There
are ways around it, no question, but the fact of
the matter is we only collect that what, once a
year.
MS. MARIANO: Well, it comes in
MR. ROBERTS: Three times a year.
And it's all budgeted. Why you have ninety days
in there because, sure, there's reserves in there
but in order to spend that without personal
liability you've got to change your budget, and
that requires a move from the state. It may be
less than ninety days, we picked an outside date
of ninety days from the time that we feel we can
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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get that accomplished in. So that's what we're
saying. There are vehicles available, none of
which is simply write a check. Okay?
MR. HAMBRIC: Early on I told Mayor
Voress that the RTC would finance the settlement,
so if you want to execute a note with us we'll
finance the settlement.
MR. RAND: That's a solution. You
lend us the money say for six months with the
right to prepay without interest and we'll be
happy to comply.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: But we're still
under the restraint because that's borrowed
money.
MR. ROBERTS: It's not that we can't
borrow, it's how you repay it, and that's when
you get into the peculiars of dealing with the
state and federal statute and supremacy and all
that.
MR. HAMBRIC: We're flexible on that
as long as there are protections that we all do
what we say we're going to do. We're flexible on
that issue.
MR. ROBERTS: What we're looking
at --
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. HAMBRIC: What time is it now?
MR. RAND: Ten after seven.
MR. HAMBRIC: How long do you all
want to break for? I don't know how much time
you need.
MR. ROBERTS: An hour?
MR. HAMBRIC: We'll be ready on or
before an hour.
MR. ROBERTS: What I think we'll do
is we'll break quickly and come back and discuss
some of these things. And you discuss. We'll be
back in an hour and we'll get together and meet
in an hour.
MAYOR VORESS: Temporarily adjourn
the meeting.
(A recess is taken.)
MR. ROBERTS: We are reconvening the
meeting at 8:07, and this is the meeting of the
Commission with myself and Ms. Mariano without
Mr. Hambric, Miss Thomsen and Mr. Yates.
MAYOR VORESS: Well, to summarize,
where do you think we stand, Rusty?
MR. ROBERTS: I think as far as the
general concepts and general principles, we're
probably not any better off than we were three
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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hours ago. I mean, you know, the things that
we've accomplished I think are, you know, just
minor semantic matters, but I think that the main
concepts are still there.
I think we can get around on page
five, you know, that applies only to this
property, and I think we can add just, you know,
the development parameters apply only to this
property. Okay? I mean I think that's the main
concept there. As far as RPUD, whether it's this
or the Delwell parameters, I mean I hesitate to
rear that not knowing what those things are, and
I think you need to know what those are.
As far as the time limitation, I
mean I think that, you know, ten years is a long,
long time.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: Right. Right.
MAYOR VORESS: Yes.
MR. ROBERTS: And if their concept
is they want to sell it in a year or six months,
you know, why haven't they sold it already?
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Well, perhaps the
owner doesn't want to buy it with the litigation
pending.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, sure, but the
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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order date, by going from the order date the
litigation is over as of that date.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: Right. Right.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: I just spoke with
them for a few minutes outside. I get the
feeling they're very anxious.
MR. ROBERTS: They're very what?
MR. AUGENSTEIN: They're anxious.
They're not acting like it but I get the feeling.
MR. ROBERTS: They may be. I guess
my feeling is if they took the time to fly
everybody down here, you know, they may be
willing to give on these things to get rid of
this. I mean I got a sense in the back of my
mind that there's some urgency on their part to
sell it and they're going to put up the best
face.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: I feel the same
way.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: We haven't hit on
anything major to me. We're right back -- we're
getting the second bite of the apple if somebody
blinks from them.
MR. ROBERTS: I guess in the context
of things, you know, they gave -- they had our
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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picture, they gave their reaction, and now
they've got our reaction back to it. Okay? So
now really we're at the crossroads.
MAYOR VORESS: We need to hear what
they come back to say to us.
MR. ROBERTS: We're at the
crossroads of whether they're going to agree or
they're going to fold. We presented -- you know,
they presented theirs and it was just totally --
MAYOR VORESS: I think they're
coming now.
MR. HAMBRIC: I'm waiting on my
attorney to get off the phone.
MS. MARIANO: I don't think we're
quite ready, Jay.
MR. HAMBRIC: We'll knock on the
door.
MR. ROBERTS: Okay. Thanks.
MAYOR VORESS: Rusty, I think that
my conception is I think some of the things are
workable. I think there are two major issues,
one this whole issue of relief where that's due
to Thomsen's bid that if we don't follow through
that they would like to have the ability to go
back and charge us with the total current
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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judgment of eighteen to twenty million dollars,
whatever that number is.
I think the other issue is around
money and I think we need to further define for
them what our degrees of freedom are to get money
in terms of -- I'm not sure they understood what
Charlie Schoech's piece was about a court order
gives us substantially different degrees of
freedom.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, the problem with
that concept is that there has been no question
all along that there was going to be a court
order and judgment. I mean there's no dispute
that this stipulation is going to be an order.
Okay? And so let's take, for instance, that we
put in here that we'll pay them 5.5 million
dollars. Okay?
MAYOR VORESS: Or whatever.
MR. ROBERTS: Just for purposes of
argument. Okay? You say we accept what they
say, we pay 5.5 million dollars. The issue that
you have to incorporate into the agreement is how
are you going to pay that?
MAYOR VORESS: Right. Absolutely.
Absolutely.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. ROBERTS: Okay? And since you
cannot just write a check, how are you going to
do that?
MAYOR VORESS: Well, that discussion
needs to be held.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, but I think you
have to have the discussion here first.
MAYOR VORESS: I understand.
MR. ROBERTS: Because I think
there's a lot of different alternatives. Some
might be more acceptable than others.
MAYOR VORESS: Correct.
MR. ROBERTS: Okay? You know, it's
bandied about, well, I can go out and borrow the
money. Well, if you go out and borrow three
million dollars, I mean I don't think that
there's been any input as to how much did that
cost. I mean that could end up costing you
another three million dollars. Okay? And if
you're going to pay off so much a year, how are
you going to do that? I mean, you know, that's
the thing about all those concepts.
It seems to me from what I know and
what I've heard from Charlie and what I know of
the law that the simplest way is simply to pay it
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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off in installments on an annual basis and that
way you just raise taxes, one mill, two mills,
and you do that. I'm not so sure that's
acceptable to them. They're talking about going
-- I don't know why it wouldn't be because if
they're seller financing anything else, that's
essentially seller financing. Okay?
MR. RAND: But their concern was
that they sign the agreement and we don't come up
with the money, in which case they're giving up a
seventeen million dollar judgment and maybe only
get a million and a half or two and a half
million dollars and we walk away. I think that's
one of their concerns as to why they're being so
insistent on these so-called escape clauses.
I think the proper thing to do is to
explain to them openly, honestly the problems
that we have in being able to come up with this
money regardless of what the figure may be. I
think we ought to tell them straight out we can
come up with a certain amount of money in
advance. Okay? Which is not too difficult.
It's beyond the amount that we're talking about
that may require a borrowing, and the question is
how can we borrow. The only way we can borrow
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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without going the route of a referendum is on the
basis of a court order. That's the strategy that
we've employed ever since we've come to this
agreement. So since he has now indicated that he
is prepared to lend us the money, then I think we
have a perfect solution in that in this agreement
they provide a condition or a clause in here that
they will lend us X amount of dollars, okay,
repayable in a six-month period of time with the
right of our being able to prepay without any
penalty depending on what interest rate they're
looking for. Hopefully we can get it interest
free. Now, however, this money will not be paid
or this loan will not be concluded until such
time as this stipulation or this settlement
stipulation is approved by court order. Then and
only then do we take the loan from the RTC.
Therefore, we circumvent the need for a
referendum. It is done on the basis of a court
order. We borrow the money only after the court
has approved this judgment.
We now have six months first to come
up with part of it from our reserves, part of it
from the insurance company, and then the
difference we have a six-month period to work out
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor 6 Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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a financing vehicle via a bond issue. I think
it's very simple.
MR. EYPEL: John, would this be an
uncollateralized loan then?
MR. RAND: They're not saying
anything. They're going to lend us -- they're
not saying whether it's based on future revenue.
They're going to say we're going to lend you X
amount of dollars repayable in six months' time
with the right of prepayment penalty.
MR. EYPEL: On the promise to pay?
MR. RAND: Yes, of course.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: John, what figure
do you have in mind?
MR. RAND: As far as a settlement is
concerned?
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Yes.
MR. RAND: Well, I would like, as I
indicated earlier, I would like to reach the
middle. We talked about two and a half million;
they want five million. I would think that four
million hopefully would be a good settlement
figure.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: That leaves us with
how much to borrow?
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. RAND: A million and a half.
MS. MARIANO: I need to -- as we're
talking money, one of the things that came up and
he was talking about whether it was two five or
five five, about sitting in front of a
Congressional meeting and having to do that. One
of the things that we also need to keep in mind
is that he has been told, and the Mayor and I and
I think the rest of you know this, John Douglas
has told us that he could settle for anything he
wanted and he would not be called to task, so
it's not where he could say how am I going to
justify this. Whether he takes a million or
whether he takes five million, he is not going to
be called to task by his superiors, and he's
already been told that.
MAYOR VORESS: That's correct. But
he has the right to say whatever he wants.
MS. MARIANO: Well, he does, but I
mean I think the argument that he has to justify
it to the Congressional, that is not valid.
Whatever a good settlement may be, it has to be
based on other factors other than that argument
because that's not a valid one.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: John, how do you
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. RAND: Very easy. We can submit
the bids to Shearson, Lehman, Prudential, Merrill
Lynch, tell them we want to borrow a million and
a half dollars, and as I indicated in the last
executive session, my thought would be to borrow
this at a ten-year bond maturity. Okay? With no
principal amortization, with a call option after
five years, meaning that we only pay interest on
that obligation, okay, semi-annually. We already
have a cushion of $367,000 by virtue of the
increase in our millage rate from the last
budget, so assuming now we borrow a million and a
half, and my guess would be the interest will be
between six and seven percent per annum. Okay?
So you're talking on a million and a half you're
talking about $90,000 a year, $100,000 a year
which we already have provided for in our budget,
so we don't have to increase our millage rate.
In five years time, if somebody buys this
property, okay, they're not going to sit with it,
believe me. This developer that he has obviously
has intentions of building pretty quickly. All
right? In which case if you wait five years
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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hopefully by that time there will be this
building development in which case we have an
increase assessed valuation basis, so that by
that time, the end of five years, if we want to
call in this bond, okay? We can then refinancing
it, let's say, ten years more or fifteen years
more, as the case may be, with principal
amortization, but it would be less of a burden to
our residents by virtue of the fact that our
increased assessed valuation has increased. We
have a larger basis on which to provide for
repayment of this obligation.
That's the whole strategy as far as
I'm concerned as far as the financial vehicle is
concerned, and I don't see that we would have any
difficulty with the financial statement that we
can show to borrow a million and a half dollars.
I think they would jump at the chance. And there
is no violation of a referendum or anything like
that if you do it that way. Let them lend us the
money only after this settlement stipulation is
approved by court order. Then the loan becomes
effective, in which case their concern about our
running away from a deal and not paying them is a
moot point because we now have an obligation to
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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pay them five and a half million or four million
or whatever the hell the figure may be. So that
should alleviate their concern about our running
away from this deal and screwing them out of a
couple million dollars.
MR. EYPEL: John, would we still
have the ability to replenish our reserves?
MR. RAND: Oh, certainly,
certainly. Going forward -- well, first of all,
if you take a million and a half out of the
reserves, assume that's the figure we use, you're
still going to have by my calculation roughly
700,000 in unallocated reserves. Okay? We
already are on a discussion as to how we're going
to maintain a reserve posture going forward. X
percent let's say of our annual budget. We
always put in a cushion, what is it, about five
percent, more or less?
MS. MARIANO: A contingency.
MR. RAND: Yes, a contingency. So
we may decide based on the input from the
Financial Advisory Board that we would have,
let's say, a reserve equivalent to twenty-five
percent of our annual budget, thirty percent,
forty percent. It doesn't mean that we have to
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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do it in one year's time. We can build this up
over a period of time. But such provisions
should be made on an annual basis depending upon
the circumstances prevalent in the town as to
whether or not we are in a financial capacity to
be able to generate additional provisions to
build up our reserves, but we would have to try
to replenish that reserve to what we consider to
be a reasonable level.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: John, in your
opinion what would that mean to the millage rate?
MR. RAND: Right now if you do it my
way there would be no increase in the millage
rate. We could still live with the millage rate
that we increased it by. Because you've got
three hundred odd thousand dollars --
MR. AUGENSTEIN: 367.
MR. RAND: Yes, 367. We paid
something like 36 or 40 so far, okay, so we have
at least $300,000. If we only have to borrow a
million and a half, okay, even if it's seven
percent, I don't think it would go that high
because there's no principal amortization here,
so you'd have to pay an interest rate which is
attractive in the marketplace, and I would say
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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right now that's between six and seven, so let's
say seven just for the sake of hypothesis, they
charge them seven percent on a million and a
half, that's $105,000 a year. That's covered.
We don't have to increase. So there's no
additional burden to our taxpayer. You are
deferring, so to speak, the repayment of this
obligation in the future where we have an
increased tax base so that the people that move
into this property are also going to have to pay
their fair share of the burden rather than us
having to pick it up. That's why I'm opposed to
paying, let's say, twenty-five percent a year in
installments to them and take it out of a budget
appropriation. I think it makes more sense to do
it the way I suggested.
MAYOR VORESS: Well, our tax base --
our assessed taxable base is right now 643,000.
MR. RAND: 664 million. Our
assessed valuation base is 664 million.
MAYOR VORESS: Okay.
MR. RAND: And if it goes up by
three percent which it's entitled to do. Well,
you've got new construction, too, where the three
percent limitation doesn't apply. That's three
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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percent on existing assessment so you have new
construction coming in here, so it could be
another eighteen million or it could be another
thirty million depending on what construction we
have. You have Peter Ince building two houses.
You have another house being constructed on AlA,
on the east side of AlA. So we may have a larger
assessed valuation base that may be even more
palatable.
MS. MARIANO: That's going to have
to be offset by the cost of doing business,
assuming everything being equal, and also
building in the fact that we have a fire truck to
pay for at a half a million dollars, somewhere
along there.
MR. RAND: Yeah, but I think that
would be the route to go. And I think we ought
to smoke them out and ask them, as Rusty has
suggested, what figure do you have in mind as far
as the monetary consideration is concerned. If
they stick to five and a half million dollars,
then you have to make up your mind whether you
want to go that far or not.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: I also want some of
those restrictions taken out of here.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. RAND: Oh, that goes without
saying, but I think most of these restrictions
would be moot points if you considered the fact
that we're satisfying their concern about getting
the money. Okay? By virtue of a loan to us.
They then have a direct obligation, we can't
argue the point. Okay? I frankly don't see the
difference by what we're proposing to do and what
they want to do because whether they are lending
us the money or we go borrow the money, okay, we
still can refuse to pay them back, too, so
they're in the same vulnerable position as they
would be if we borrowed the money from third
sources.
MS. MARIANO: I think that issue can
be worked out easily. The other thing that they
said was a deal breaker, the other big issue that
needs to be decided here was whether the
Commission wants to give them the remedy of being
able to sue the town for more than what we're
agreeing to in this settlement. That is the big
sticking point. They want to be able to sue for
more than we're agreeing to here.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: If they're agreeing
with us on a settlement --
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. RAND: Then I think it's
academic.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Then I believe it's
academic.
MS. MARIANO: It's not academic.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: If we're borrowing
the money from them --
MS. MARIANO: It's still not
academic.
MR. ROBERTS: Perhaps it's a
misconception. What you have to understand is
that -- you know, we just talked about the money
the last thing and they used the terminology if
you didn't pay me, but I don't think there would
ever be a problem whatsoever structuring how John
said or anything like that, ever be a problem
with paying them. I just can't envision
that, number one, the town would ever not pay it,
and, number two, like you say, John says, well,
I'll give them a note and it will get repaid in
ninety days. Well, if you didn't repay that note
in ninety days, what would they have to do?
They'd have to turn around and sue you. Okay?
That's what I tried to explain to them. If I put
it in the judgment that I owed to you or
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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something like that, you missed that whole first
step of suit. If it's not paid in the date set
forth in the judgment, then they just go to court
and the judge holds you all five in contempt
until you pay it. Okay?
MAYOR VORESS: You made that point
but I don't think they heard it.
MR. ROBERTS: They don't understand
it. That's the thing. It's not the -- you know,
the concept, John, is not whether you're going to
pay the amount you've agreed to pay. The concept
here is that if some -- an employee, official or
agent somehow in their view has impeded,
impaired, slowed -- impeded and slowed are the
same in Webster's Dictionary, okay -- them from
either sale or development, okay? Now, look at
it realistically. That property has sat for the
last twenty years being impeded, impaired, slowed
in development by the owner. They've claimed
everybody has impeded, impaired and slowed them
in development. Hoffman first accused the town
of doing it. Then he accused the Corps of
Engineers of doing it. Then he accused his
partners of doing it. You know, everybody,
developers are like that, and I guarantee you if
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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you sign this that they'll collect the five
million dollars, it will be paid to them and then
five years down the road the developer, when his
development goes bust, will be in here doing just
exactly what Broadview did.
MAYOR VORESS: Absolutely.
MR. ROBERTS: Okay? I can't make a
go of it so now I got my scapegoat and it's the
Town of Highland Beach. It's deja vu. It's
exactly what happened in this case. Those guys
got into a bad deal and so they turned to get to
somebody to pay for it and they said ah -ha, it's
the town. Okay? They had absolutely no idea
from '82 on of developing this RPUD. It was
simply a matter of getting somebody to try to
cover their losses.
MR. RAND: Rusty, when I raised that
point about saying what you're saying here, what
you're proposing rather is that the builder or
the plaintiff can make such an allegation and
it's one-sided. In other words, because they
make the allegation, you then go into litigation
without giving us an opportunity first to know
what the violation is and giving us an
opportunity to correct it, but I want to point
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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out to you we've already agreed if you look on
page fourteen, it says prohibitions, "The
defendant shall adopt no moratoria or any other
form of zoning upon a property of the development
contrary to the development parameters which
shall or may impair or interfere directly or
indirectly in any manner whatsoever with the sale
or development of the property, except as
provided herein.
"The defendant shall not take any
action, except as provided herein, which
materially impairs, impedes, slows or stops the
development from proceeding." We have already
agreed to that in number twelve on page
fourteen.
MR. ROBERTS: The town has.
MR. RAND: The town, okay, but I
said --
VICE MAYOR PAUL: Not our employees
or agents.
MR. RAND: But they said they would
address that. In other words, they recognize
that we may have a point that it's one-sided. In
other words, they make the allegation and right
away we have a litigation in process. We said
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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that we should have the right to first know what
the so-called allegation is and to seek a means
of remedying that situation before you go into
litigation. And I think they agreed to that. I
thought they recognized that we had a point.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, with all due
respect, John, that's just illusory. Okay?
Because if they come in, you know -- okay, I'm
Mr. Developer, I come in and say, you know,
Harry, the building official has been screwing
around with a repair, how do you fix it, we
can't, it's already done, I lost a million
dollars. Okay? I'm going to court. If there's
anything that can be fixed, it will be fixed.
You don't need a cure to do it. It's just the,
you know, it's the worst case scenario of risk
that you're trying to deal with and if you allow
yourself to be exposed to anything happening
because I mean I can tell you where this comes
from. Where it comes from is Elaine Roberts
wrote to some state agency and says I don't want
them to get their dredge and fill permit when the
Town commission had in fact said okay. And she
said, hey, I can exercise my First Amendment
rights. You as a town may not agree, but I don't
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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think these people ought to kick the snail
runners off their property, so she as the town
manager, not on official stationery, wrote the
DER or DERM or something like that and said I
opposed and of course once there was opposition
from somebody in the town that delayed them,
interfered them, impeded them from getting that
permit, and that's precisely what could happen.
And if that does happen then you should not be
held accountable for it.
MAYOR VORESS: Let me add something
to that, John, just a second.
MR. RAND: Yeah.
MAYOR VORESS: One of the things
when we were originally talking about this which
was the start of this process in Valley Forge,
this issue that Judith Thomsen is bringing up is
one that is stuck in her craw. She wants the
right to go back and sue us for the total moneys.
MR. ROBERTS: Sure. Absolutely.
MAYOR VORESS: And that's
specifically what in all of these words allow
them to do that.
MR. ROBERTS: That's right.
MAYOR VORESS: And if we agree to
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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that, we are exposed during the life of this
document to being sued again for eighteen to
twenty million dollars, and I think that we
cannot allow that to happen.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: The same thing we
had in 191 exactly.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: I found that guilty
thing eating in my craw. We have a bad history
and we don't trust.
MAYOR VORESS: There is no trust
between them. I told you that before you saw it
today.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: I think we ought to
decide what the maximum figure we're going to go.
MR. RAND: I want to go back to this
thing. I'm obviously concerned about the
possibility that they might seek some excuse in
order to come up with additional litigation over
and above what we're settling here for, but we
indicate in the agreement under remedies that if
there is any default under this particular
agreement that there shall be an expedited
non -jury proceeding before a U.S. magistrate
located in West Palm Beach, the magistrate in
order to seek one or more remedies herein set
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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forth. Now, you mean to tell me that they would
be limited as to how much they could sue if we
default under this agreement?
MAYOR VORESS: Under our proposal
they were.
MR. RAND: Where does it say that
there's a limited amount? They could sue for
fifteen million dollars, can't they?
MS. MARIANO: Not on what we have.
MR. RAND: Suppose now we decide
five million bucks. Okay? I'm playing the role
of a devil's advocate now. Okay? We settle this
thing and we pay them the money that we mutually
agree upon. Okay? Now, for some reason or other
three years down the road they declare there's a
default under this agreement. They talk with us,
we can't come to a meeting of the minds. Now
they go to court.
MR. ROBERTS: What's the default?
MR. RAND: So they say the town
prevented them from building in accordance with
this agreement. Okay? And we say there was no
violation, there is nothing that we have done
which is in violation of this agreement. They
disagree and they go to court and they claim by
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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virtue of this litigation by virtue of our
refusal to give them an agreement for whatever
the pretense is at the time, they have lost ten
million dollars from this delay. What's to stop
them from suing for ten million dollars? There's
nothing in here that limits the --
MAYOR VORESS: A thousand dollars a
day.
MR. RAND: That's the delay. That's
the delay. That's all that is.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: What page are you
on?
MR. RAND: Page 13.
MAYOR VORESS: It's page 13 of
Rusty Is.
MR. RAND: It says here, "The
parties stipulate and agree that the remedies
available hereunder include, and the magistrate
shall have the power to order mandatory and
injunctive relief in order to specifically
enforce this settlement."
MS. MARIANO: But before that it
says remedies hereinafter set forth.
MR. RAND: Okay.
MS. MARIANO: Which means it's
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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limited to the ones that were set forth by us.
MR. RAND: Where does it set forth
what the amount is?
MS. MARIANO: Right there when you
look in the brackets of what was in there.
Payment of a thousand dollars a day with no more
than -- with a cap and actually incurred.
MR. RAND: That's for delay.
MR. ROBERTS: That's right.
MR. RAND: That's for delays.
MS. MARIANO: Right.
MR. RAND: But that doesn't have
anything to do with litigation. They can still
sue under this agreement if there is a default
under it.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: We have to clear
that up. That should be cleared up.
MR. RAND: Well, am I wrong, Rusty,
or not? If there is a default under this
agreement and we can't remedy the situation, they
go to court. Are you telling me that the most
they can sue us for is five million dollars? I
don't see any amount here. They can sue us for
fifteen. They can sue us for thirty million
dollars. What's to stop them?
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MAYOR VORESS: No.
MR. RAND: What do you mean no?
MAYOR VORESS: That's not what this
particular document says.
MR. RAND: Well, show me what it
says. It just says --
MAYOR VORESS: It says a thousand
dollars a day.
MR. RAND: That's for the delay.
Payment by the defendant of monetary damages for
any sums due hereinunder, okay, for any delay
proven of no more than a thousand dollars per
day, with a calendar year cap of no more than
sixty if the magistrate determines that
development has been delayed as a result of
action by the defendant which violates this
agreement. And actually incurred and paid the
attorneys, but that doesn't mean they can't sue
us under this agreement if there is a default to
prevent them from building this property. That's
the point I'm trying to make. So the fact that
we're concerned that they may go back, and,
believe me, I'm concerned about that, too. If
that's what they're inferring here, then I think
we ought to insist that it be removed, but I'm
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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suggesting that they still can sue us under this
agreement and there's nothing in here which
states that they are limited to the amount that
they could sue us for. That's the point I'm
MR. AUGENSTEIN: What's your
opinion, Rusty?
MR. ROBERTS: Well, you have to
understand the complaint. One, when you speak in
generalities it's hard to come with answers like
what is a default. If they think there's a
default in the agreement, what does the agreement
require you to do? The agreement only requires
you -- prohibits you from adopting zoning that --
not approving a site plan in these parameters
it's limited after you get past the payment of
money to simply allowing them to build under
certain restrictions in zoning. No different
than what you do on a daily basis under your
zoning code. And if they come -- the only way
that they would come in with a default in the
agreement is if you refuse to grant them some
permit and they could go down to the court and
say he refused to grant me the permit. The court
would say, what's your reason? Here's my
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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reason. You're wrong. Give him the permit.
Case closed.
MS. MARIANO: They are limited. I
think they're limited.
MR. ROBERTS: That's specific
enforcement, mandatory injunction, the judge says
give them the damn permit, and, by the way, we've
taken sixty days so you owe them $60,000 during
the time of the permit. What else is there in
the agreement that you could default on?
MR. RAND: Then why should we be
concerned about their seeking other remedies if
that's the case?
MR. ROBERTS: Because -- you know,
Arthur and I had this conversation talking about
the finance. You have to understand the
settlement agreement is a contract between you
and these people. It's under contract principles
much like your mortgage on your house or your
borrowing money. Is there anything in your
mortgage which says -- gives you the ability that
once you've borrowed the money and you don't like
or they have impaired the way you've lived in the
house or they have delayed you like that, you can
go back to them and say, well, no, I don't want
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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to pay you the money? No, because when drawing
up a contract like that you make the remedies
specific. Okay? This is contractual law. You
want to identify exactly what your contractual
rights are and what your remedies are. And we
have done that.
They don't want that. They want to
say, gee, if you don't live up to the contract, I
can chuck the contract aside, keep the five
million you've paid me and sue you for eighteen
million dollars. And we're saying no, you take
the five million dollars, this is over here,
you're limited to exactly what's in this
contract. If there is a default you don't have
to sue me for it. You don't have to file a new
suit and have an answer and dismiss it. I'm
giving you the ability to go direct to the judge
expeditiously and determine whether you're right
or I'm right on this default. That's all.
MR. RAND: How long would it take to
get a judge to make such a ruling? Is there a
court docket in that sense as well?
MR. ROBERTS: I don't know. That's
why I've put a cap on it of $60,000 a year.
Okay? A lot of it depends upon whether the judge
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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is on vacation, but that's one of the reasons why
you've gone to the magistrate, they're much more
available than a district court judge. If it was
a state court judge, I know I could probably get
in there in thirty days, but they're tied up and
wanting to go to the magistrate, and that's fine
with me, too.
MR. RAND: Well, I got the
impression that they agreed with the point that I
made that it's a one-sided clause in that
somebody can make an allegation that we have
defaulted under this agreement or have impeded or
slowed or whatever it may be, and I think he
said -- I think you have a point, let's reword
the language.
MS. MARIANO: Only to come to the
Commission, but the end result was still the
same. The end result that they can seek relief
without -- you know, an unlimited relief
depending upon whatever a judge says.
MR. RAND: But we're responsible for
the action of any employee in this town in the
normal course of events in any event. We're
responsible for your actions, we're responsible
for the actions of any employee, aren't we?
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MS. MARIANO: Not if you settled
something under a different --
MR. RAND: What if a police chief
goes out and kills somebody?
MR. ROBERTS: You're not responsible
if she writes a letter to the Corps of Engineers
and says don't give these guys documents because
they're scumbags and that holds them up. You're
not responsible for that. It's not her duty to
do that.
MR. RAND: But then they wouldn't
sue her, they'd sue the town, wouldn't they?
VICE MAYOR PAUL: That's right.
That's what we're trying to stop.
MS. MARIANO: If Lee Leffingwell
does something or if Ethel does something and
let's just say it affected our going forward,
they can go to court and they can sue with --
there is no limit. This says you've gotten your
money, you can sue us, you can go to the
magistrate, you don't have to sue us, you don't
even have to spend the money on that, go straight
to the magistrate, but you're limited to either
making us do what we didn't do, give us a fine
for the time we held you up and whatever your
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. ROBERTS: Here's a point then.
They're absolutely correct, you're responsible
for the acts of your employees within the scope
and course of their employment. If they came in
and asked for a permit and the building officials
denied it under this agreement, as I have
written, they can take you to court because that
would be an official action of the town. And the
court would say -- and I guarantee you you'd have
your cure problem because they've got to serve
you with a complaint. Realistically if -- I'm
sure that they would simply say this is wrong,
after Leffingwell said no, they'd walk right over
to her office or collar one of you and say I'm
going to sue your ass. And you'd have your
opportunity to cure. You don't need that cured.
If you get served with the papers, you could cure
right then. Say come on down here, I'll give it
to you. Okay? They're giving you nothing by
this cure thing. What they want to gloss over
is -- because they've already got that
protection. If one of your employees or agents
in a position that they're supposed to be in
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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causes a default, the defendant is going to
court. The town is going to court. Because the
town can only work through its agents anyway, but
what they want is that they want to haul you into
court, too, when the person outside of the scope
of their employment exercising their First
Amendment rights, as they're entitled to do,
somehow impairs them.
MR. RAND: Would it solve the
problem if we ask them to take out the last
sentence, "The enumeration of specific remedies
herein shall not preclude the plaintiffs or any
other owner from pursuing any other remedies or
receiving any other relief." Would that resolve
the problem, take out that last sentence?
MR. ROBERTS: Why don't we just
write it as I put it. What about pay by a
defendant monetary damages of any sums due
hereunder? What's the monetary damages for?
MAYOR VORESS: He's on page thirteen
of Rusty's original document.
MR. ROBERTS: It's actually
sixteen.
MAYOR VORESS: I was looking at
Rusty's original.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. RAND: What you have, Rusty, is
payment by defendant of liquidated damages for
any delay proven of no more than $1,000 per day
with a calendar year cap of no more than $60,000
if the magistrate determines that development has
been delayed as a result of action by the
defendant which violates this agreement and
actually incurred and paid attorney's fees and
costs for one attorney for the prevailing party.
They are saying payment by the defendant of
monetary damages or any sums due hereunder and,
iii, payment of reasonable attorney's fees and
costs actually incurred and paid in connection
with any enforcement of this stipulation. So up
to that point I don't see that there's any
serious difference.
MS. MARIANO: The word monetary
damages is not defined.
MR. RAND: That's what the judge has
to decide.
MS. MARIANO: That's what we don't
want the judge to decide.
MR. ROBERTS: What was the 31
million dollars? That's damages for delay in not
being able to develop their property over nine
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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years.
MR. RAND: "The magistrate shall
have the power to order mandatory and injunctive
relief in order to specifically enforce this
settlement." What does that mean?
MS. MARIANO: That means they'll
make us do what we said we're going to do, give
them a permit.
MR. RAND: Mandatory and injunctive
relief .
MR. ROBERTS: Exactly what you have
now. Mandatory injunction you must reinstate the
RPUD-2 and give them reasonable modifications.
If you don't -- they want more than they've got
now. Okay? Mandatory injunction now just gives
them the RPUD for five years and two months.
Okay? From the time that it starts. Okay? Five
years. They wanted ten years and the judge said
no, five years. That's all you were delayed.
Okay?
MR. RAND: All right. Then we have
to resolve the remedy issue this business about
the employee and whatnot you want them to take
that out or you want to see if they come up with
more palatable language?
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. ROBERTS: I want it out.
MR. RAND: You want it out.
MR. ROBERTS: The actions of the
defendant is already in there, the town. That's
the only thing you're responsible under the law
and the only thing more importantly you can
control. You want to be held responsible for
something you can't control? If she writes a
letter exercising her First Amendment right,
there's nothing you can do. You can't even fire
her or she'll sue you right then. Okay?
MAYOR VORESS: Shall we ask them to
come back in and see what they have to say?
MR. AUGENSTEIN: We still haven't
decided what our cap is going to be.
MS. MARIANO: I thought they were
going to come back with the offer.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: We should have a
counter-offer in case --
MS. MARIANO: If they come in with a
number I think --
MR. RAND: What about the height? I
think we ought to tell them that that's
unacceptable. Right? The eighteen stories.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: See what they say
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. AUGENSTEIN: Should we let them
in? Are you going to go get them?
MAYOR VORESS: I'll get them.
(A brief recess is taken.)
MAYOR VORESS: I guess we need to
have the record show that the RTC people have
rejoined us. And, Jay, I guess maybe it would be
appropriate for asking you to give us some
reaction to the things we've said. Is that fair
enough?
MR. HAMBRIC: Yeah, I think on some
of the language issues we can probably take care
of as we went through the agreement. I was
thinking when I was talking to Chris and Judith,
in similar situations when you're dealing with a
debtor or property or someone buying, a lot of
times it proves beneficial to say, counsel, if
you'll leave and let the business people sit
here, we'll make the agreement and then we'll
tell you what we want written up. That may prove
to be beneficial here. I'm not sure if counsel
is interested in doing that. But in my life,
past life, I have found sometimes that works
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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well. In Judith's and Rusty's defense we pay
lawyers to sometimes argue over words and
sometimes we get spirited negotiations tied up
over what the word means, but I think we're
pretty close on some of the issues that came up
in regard to language.
The one issue which is a
philosophical issue that I think Councilman
Augenstein and I mentioned outside was there
seems -- I don't think we have an adversarial
relationship, but sometimes it seems we have an
adversarial relationship in regard to trust at
the RTC and trust that the town is going to do
what we both promise to do. Now, I think that's
easily correctible with short time frames, short
being again reasonable for the town and for the
RTC on payment of funds so if we're looking at
something that's -- I'll look at my balance
sheet and call it short-term assets or short-
term obligations compared to long-term, I think
that makes it easier for us to give up a position
if we're concerned about the town's not doing
what it agrees to do at some date in the
future.
MAYOR VORESS: Okay.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. EYPEL: I'm sorry. Would you
repeat that last part of your statement, Jay?
You are concerned?
MR. HAMBRIC: No, I'm not
concerned. I think we can solve it -- I think
there's -- when you look at the agreement, the
RTC, rightfully so, is trying to position
ourselves for the event of a default by the
town. I think at several times we started
drafting this agreement we were talking about
sliding scales, staying involved with the sale of
the closing of the property and some other
issues. I think if we can narrow down the time
frame and agree that payment of funds will be
made over some period of time.
MR. EYPEL: Okay.
MR. HAMBRIC: I don't know if that's
ninety days or six months, but if we get into a
position where it's cashed out over that period
of time, I think we'll alleviate some of those
concerns. And I think I can minimize my
additional risk when I sell the property by not
offering financing. I think that lowers the
value of my property, but I think I can make a
business argument that there's some additional
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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risk in staying in bed with the developer over
the next ten years and maybe I don't want to be
in the lending business. Maybe Barnett Bank
needs to do that instead of the RTC. So I think
I can structure part of my transaction to
alleviate some of my concerns if we can shorten
up -- or not shorten up but get to a time frame
that we can look at and say makes sense.
And the other thing is, too, I mean
maybe the first paragraph of this settlement
agreement ought to say it's the intention of the
the Town of Highland Beach and the RTC to settle
this matter. I think when you read this I don't
know if we ever say --
MS. THOMSEN: Amicably resolve.
MR. RAND: It does say that.
MR. HAMBRIC: So --
MR. RAND: That's in the first
paragraph.
MR. HAMBRIC: Amicably resolve
sounds like a lawyer wrote it.
MR. YATES: We restate that it's our
intention of moving it into the private sector as
expeditiously as possible.
MR. HAMBRIC: We're both committed
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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to the settlement of this, the sale and ultimate
development of the property. I think that gives
the future buyer some confidence that the town
wants it developed. I've always -- the Mayor and
I's conversation it's always been the town wants
to develop its revenue producing, it would like
to get it built and increase revenues.
MAYOR VORESS: Do I understand you
to say, Jay, that if we could get a number agreed
and time frames under which we might pay that
number, some of these other issues like this
issue that Judith brings up relative to having us
exposed for a variety of numbers could be more
amicably resolved?
MR. HAMBRIC: Right. I think if we
can -- if this group can agree to the business
terms, then I think we can solve the language
problems. And I think we may have been going at
it backwards through no fault of our own in just
trying to solve the legal issues as opposed to
the business terms.
MR. ROBERTS: Let me understand, you
know, we've talked about a couple of concepts,
one being what are the parameters. Is it an
alternative RPUD or just the parameters. Okay?
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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And I think that issue -- but it seems to me that
the issue that you're addressing here is that you
want some security, for lack of a better term.
And is it my understanding that what you're
saying is that if we agree to some figure and
just for hypothetical say your figure of five and
a half million dollars and you could be assured
that you're going to get paid that in ninety
days, that then as a security for the ten-year
development parameters, you could live with what
we addressed or what we said?
MR. HAMBRIC: Yeah, I think
there's -- yeah, it makes it much easier for me
to talk about -- I mean on the development
parameters, you know, it may be ten years or
maybe we can quantify that the developer after we
sell it he has six months to start something.
It's really only ten years and six months, we can
quantify that, but, again, I think the issue is
solving the business terms. On the RPUD there's
a lot of money spent developing that. I don't
know if that's an investment or an expense at
this point, but I don't know if you've looked at
it. You may look at it and say this helps us as
well as helps the RTC. I don't think we've done
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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that yet.
MAYOR VORESS: Jay, let's see if we
can get into this. That might be helpful. Let's
see if we can talk about money and what our
ability to pay is. I'd like to ask Commissioner
Rand to address that.
MR. RAND: Jay, for the sake of
perspective, I'd like you to understand what our
problem is with respect to the payment of money.
Okay? We cannot come up with more than two and a
half million dollars. Okay? For the simple
reason that to do so would require a referendum
unless it was ordered by the court. That's why
the proposal that we sent to you was predicated
on this settlement being made and the payment of
the funds being made only upon the court order
being granted. That gives us the flexibility to
be able to pay you this amount of money without
having to go to referendum and in violation of
state statutes and local town ordinances. That's
the reason why we've asked for that rather than
upon the signing of the agreement.
It is a physical impossibility for
us to give you more than two and a half million
dollars at the signing of this agreement. We
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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can't even give you two and a half million
dollars at the signing of the agreement. The
whole idea was that we would come to a meeting of
the minds as far as the figure is concerned. You
had indicated earlier that you were prepared to
finance this transaction. Perhaps that's the
ideal solution. We would then ask you to
consider whether the figure that we agreed upon
-- you lend us the money, that becomes part of
this agreement, you give us six months to prepare
this obligation in whole or in part without any
penalty, and that would then give us the
opportunity to pay you the funds partly out of
reserves, partly out of the insurance company
settlement, and then we would look for means to
refinance or to finance, I should say, the
balance owing to you depending on what the final
figure is. That eliminates a lot of problems for
US. But the loan from you to us can only take
place when it is approved -- when this
stipulation, this settlement stipulation is
approved by the court, so that gives you the
protection of this agreement only being in force
after the court approves, and if the court
approves, only then would you lend us the money,
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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in which case you get your money up front. We
have an agreement that's in force. So the rest
of the verbiage or phraseology that we have here
would be less onerous to you than it would be
under other circumstances. You understand the
point I'm trying to make?
We have a problem as far as coming
up with the money in as expeditious a fashion as
possible. We want to pay you as soon as possible
and get out of this thing once and for all. We
don't want to go on yearly installments or
anything like that. That we should be able to
finance ourselves through an underwriter or
whatever it may be.
MR. HAMBRIC: Commissioner, to make
sure I understand, we agree to adopt that we file
it with the court. The court then says we've
accepted it and at that point you have more
flexibility than you have today.
MR. RAND: That's correct.
MAYOR VORESS: We could finance a
bond as an example without doing a referendum.
MR. RAND: So we then go to Shearson
Lehman or Merrill Lynch and say we need to borrow
X amount of dollars for such period of time, are
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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you prepared to accommodate us. Okay? And we
don't see any difficulty considering our
financial structure in being able to borrow the
money. We can't come up with more than two and a
half million dollars from our own resources.
That's just a physical impossibility. And we
need to avoid any problems from a personal
standpoint of us acting as commissioners here
doing something that which would be in violation
of state statutes or local ordinances, and that's
the reason why we are insistent on the
phraseology in this document indicating that this
settlement can only become valid only after it is
ordered by the court to do so. That's the reason
why we want it, no other reason.
MR. HAMBRIC: What is ordered by the
court? I guess I'm going to have to say flipping
it back to the lawyers, what's ordered by the
court? Is that acceptance of our petition?
MR. RAND: Well, there is a
document here --
MR. ROBERTS: Judgment entered.
MS. THOMSEN: The only way of
getting on with this because this has been on the
table from the beginning in terms of you have an
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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agreement at that point in time and the only
thing you can get is whatever amount of money
you've agreed to. The only other way you can do
it is, and I think that there are some provisions
in Rusty's draft speaking to if we don't get paid
when we're supposed to what kind of additional
moneys you can get. And you can clearly -- the
way the provision that I saw looked at it is it
would be advantageous to the town monetarily not
to live up to the agreement because the most they
would ever pay would be $60,000 a year even if
they owed you five million --
MR. HAMBRIC: Okay.
MS. THOMSEN: -- under Rusty's
provision. You can have an interest provision,
we all agree that we want to do it quickly. It
can kick in, you know, if you need the ninety
days or whatever, but then it has to be an amount
of money where there really is an incentive to
get paid if in fact it hasn't happened.
MR. HAMBRIC: But to make sure I'm
clear, at the point we filed this document with
the appellate court, then that frees you up to go
do what you need to do.
MAYOR VORESS: What it does, Jay, is
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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if we have a court order, then we can go to a
financial institution and dedicate the taxing
authority of the town without going to a
referendum.
MR. HAMBRIC: Okay.
MAYOR VORESS: If the court doesn't
tell us to do it, then we have to have a
referendum. That's a long time.
MR. HAMBRIC: And we don't see any
risk that the court is not going to accept this
document because it's in their best behalf?
MAYOR VORESS: If both parties want
it settled the court is going to agree to it.
MR. RAND: But, Jay, if the court
doesn't accept it, then there's no deal.
MR. HAMBRIC: Right. Okay.
MR. RAND: We're back to square one
again, so that eliminates your worries about our
being able to come up with the money or living up
to the agreement because we're going to give you
the money up front based on the loan you give us,
and then we will seek means by which we will
repay you and we would like a six months hiatus
period in order to do this. We feel that's
adequate time in order to be be able to settle
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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it. We hope to be able to do it in less time.
And we would like to have the flexibility of the
six-month period because we're coming in pretty
soon to discussing the next fiscal year budget,
and that gives us time to make the necessary
preparations in the forthcoming budget.
MR. ROBERTS: Let me tell you, and I
heard you say this, there was certainly no
intention on our part, on my part in my draft
that this liquidated damages paragraph to any
repayment of money. Okay? Now, I'm not saying
that you couldn't construe it that way. But just
so you're wrong -- there was never any intent on
my part nor I think I can speak for all the
people assembled here that they were looking for
a way to get out of paying whatever they agreed
to pay.
MR. HAMBRIC: I understand.
MR. ROBERTS: And to the extent it
indicates that, we would be happy to elicit any
changes to evidence that intention. That
particular provision was indicated for the
particular remedy of your developer comes in and
says here's my application and building official
Smith, whoever it is, five years down the road
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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says, you know, sayonara, you didn't dot your T's
or whatever like that, and, you know, there's no
relief, so you can go to the court and the town
will know that for each day that that's
improperly denied, I'm paying you a thousand
dollars.
MR. HAMBRIC: Okay.
MR. ROBERTS: And the reason why,
you know, that's sixty days right there which to
me envisions an appropriate amount of time to get
in front of the magistrate and for the magistrate
to order you, town, do it or you're held in
contempt.
MR. HAMBRIC: Okay.
MR. ROBERTS: Okay? I mean that's
the intention of that.
MS. THOMSEN: Unfortunately because
nothing else pertains specifically to the payment
provisions that would govern it as well which you
could then have the most you could collect in the
event of a breach of non-payment would be the
60,000 a year which is not where you'd want to
be.
MR. HAMBRIC: I'd like to again get
back to the business terms.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MAYOR VORESS: Go ahead.
MR. HAMBRIC: You need six months.
I think six months is reasonable.
MR. RAND: All right.
MR. HAMBRIC: I'm assuming if we
finance this, there is some money for a down
payment, good faith deposit.
MR. RAND: Within the time frame
that we've indicated in this agreement, yeah, we
can come up with part of the money from the
insurance which could take a few days and it may
take up to sixty or ninety days for the
additional million and a half.
MAYOR VORESS: Like a million right
off the bat, a million and a half in a short
period of time and the rest of it from financing.
MR. RAND: Jay, I can't conceive of
this lasting longer than ninety days, but we
would like to have the flexibility of six months.
MR. HAMBRIC: And again,
Commissioner, while I'm not an expert at
municipal finance, you all do have a pretty
strong balance sheet, you do a pretty good job.
I mean fortunately you've done something,
everybody sitting here has done something very
MUDRICI£, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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well because you have -- like I said, I'll buy
your bonds before I'll buy City of Philadelphia,
New York and everybody else. I think you've done
a good job.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: We'll give you the
opportunity.
MR. HAMBRIC: Call me and let me
know. Okay. So the question I guess we're down
to now is the number.
MR. RAND: Right.
MR. HAMBRIC: Now, we started this I
think originally, Mayor, at about twelve million,
ten, seven, and I think we ended up at five and a
half the last time we had one of our informal
meetings based on the idea that we were getting
out in a short period of time, that we weren't
tied into any long term, sell the property and
the ultimate value of the property. And, guys, I
think that's a very good number I can live with.
I think it's on the one side of the table there's
some money left on the table and the other is I
think it's something you could live with, we can
all live with and say we've made a good deal.
Ultimately I've told the Mayor all of us will be
criticized down the road, but we're all big boys
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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and girls. And if the appellate court comes back
and says the town is successful, your
constituency is going to say what did you do
paying five and a half million dollars. At the
same time if it comes back and the RTC's position
is upheld, someone is going to say what are you
doing taking five and a half million dollars on a
potential twenty million dollar settlement. So I
think it's in our all best interests to go ahead
and settle it and get it out of the way. And I
think the five and a half is a very good number.
MAYOR VORESS: I guess the thing we
want to explore with you, Jay, is in light of the
settlement which has biased our thinking, too, is
as you came up with those numbers putting
probabilities is the way you got that number at
Valley Forge, is there any way you could put some
numbers in your probability and come up with a
number different than that?
MR. HAMBRIC: I'll tell you I
can't -- one of the things as I met with our
lawyers before the appellate -- I guess everyone
was there, we were all there, I mean I only need
two votes or three votes.
MAYOR VORESS: I understand.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. HAMBRIC: I mean I've got two so
it's hard for me to my argue my probability of
risk is now lower because if there's nine, ten
sitting justices I only need two more on my side
so it makes it harder to put any higher risk
factor on the present value analysis.
MAYOR VORESS: Well, you had two.
MR. HAMBRIC: I had two so I need
three, I guess.
MAYOR VORESS: You need three. And
with a tie you win.
MR. HAMBRIC: And a tie I win and
you need five and I've already doubled -- I
talked to John Douglas and yourself, Mr. Mayor,
and the first time I doubled my discount rate to
start with because I wasn't taking into account
the judgment was earning interest while we were
doing all these things so --
MR. ROBERTS: I guess we probably
need to meet and discuss it if your counter is
five and a half million.
MR. HAMBRIC: Sure.
MAYOR VORESS: I assume you can find
your way.
MR. HAMBRIC: Yes, we've been here
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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before.
(Whereupon the RTC representatives
leave the hearing room.)
MR. EYPEL: Mayor, I want to ask a
question if I may. I'm not sure I understood.
We're now resolving the monetary issue. What is
their position regarding the remedies?
MAYOR VORESS: What I understood
them to say, and everybody was listening to this
discussion, was that if we can agree upon a
number without saying what that number is,
they're concerned about opening the door to get
back to the eighteen -- they haven't got eighteen
to twenty million dollars in here, is less severe
and that Jay even in spite of what his law
counsel was, I read him to say he would be
inclined to agree with what Rusty said. Is that
with the thousand and --
MR. ROBERTS: In a general sense,
but I didn't get that.
MS. MARIANO: I didn't get that
either. I thought they were talking about
parameters and the RPUD. I don't think they got
to the remedy. I don't think they addressed
that.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MAYOR VORESS: I'm just speaking of
the remedy here.
MS. MARIANO: I don't think they did
either.
MR. ROBERTS: I never heard them say
I agree if you'll pay me five million dollars
I'll agree to your provisions.
MAYOR VORESS: He didn't say that.
He said he thought this piece could be resolved.
MR. ROBERTS: As I said, in a
general sense I think he, you know, he's saying
-- I read him to say get rid of the lawyers,
let's talk business. Well, business is just
money, forgetting remedies. If we can come to an
agreement on the money, then we'll let the
lawyers talk about the remedies. That's what I
heard.
MAYOR VORESS: I'm not willing to do
that obviously.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: I'm not willing to
commit myself to a dollar amount with all that
other stuff hanging fire. I mean remember we
tried this settlement thing with Rosario whatever
his name was. All the lawyers went out of the
room. We had this marvelous, marvelous
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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agreement.
MR. EYPEL: Yes.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: And when we got
the documents back that had been prepared for
signature it was --
MS. MARIANO: Seven pages of
remedies.
MAYOR VORESS: What did you read,
Dave? You were listening. What was your reading
of that?
MR. AUGENSTEIN: I frankly believe
he's firm in what he wants, and yet I don't feel
we should give it to him.
MAYOR VORESS: John, what did you
feel?
MR. RAND: Well, I don't think
that's the final figure. I can't see why he
would come up with a lower figure. I think
that's up to us to counter propose. But I got
the impression from the remarks that he made, I
construed his remarks to mean that if we could
agree on the figure, the legal phraseology is of
secondary importance, not they they would agree
to everything we said, but I don't think it would
be that much of a problem in resolving our
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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differences as far as the legal implications are
concerned. That's the impression I got, but
obviously whatever figure we counter propose
would be on condition that we also agree to the
terms and conditions of the settlement. That
goes without saying. It's not that we agreed to
give them X amount of dollars and then agreed to
what they want here as far as the remedies are
concerned. No, on the contrary. It would be
we'll give you the figure, borrow from you as
suggested, but we would insist on the legal
phraseology being as we have indicated here
because I think we've addressed your concerns by
virtue of this financing route.
MR. EYPEL: I have two things,
John. I understand what you're saying. I have a
problem with two things here. One, I put myself
in their position. I tried to play the other
side, and if I were sitting over there, I would
think that the dollar settlement would be
secondary to the language of this document which
is supposed to protect the almighty taxpayers
that he represents himself to be here tonight
speaking for. And I'm very sorry, but I sense
that for some reason this drop in the bucket, so
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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to speak, the million, million and a half extra
dollars that we would be giving them he is
willing to compromise Judith's whole plan, at
least that's the way I understand it, for the
money which is practically nothing to the federal
government. It's a lot to us. It's a year's
budget to us, one solid year of this town's
complete budget. Why is he so willing to give up
his almighty document here?
MR. RAND: He didn't say he'd give
up. We're not proposing that he do that.
MR. EYPEL: What I would like to
propose, what I would like to suggest is let's
come to some sort of a package deal with him. I
am not willing to commit to the money first and
then pound out this. I think we need to come up
with an all encompassing --
MR. RAND: That's what I'm
suggesting.
MR. EYPEL: We have one or two major
issues.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: He said the
language could be taken care of. I'm sure he
said that. I heard him.
MAYOR VORESS: That's what I heard
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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him say.
MR. RAND: It would be -- the
settlement would be contingent upon a mutual
acceptance of the phraseology in this settlement
agreement. It is not that we're giving up our
position. We object to the height, we object to
the remedies and so forth. That position is not
changing. I think they might change, and that's
the impression that I got from him. If we agreed
to a figure and they buy it, then I think the
legal aspects or the wording in this document
then has to be resolved between the lawyers.
That's the impression that I got. But that
doesn't mean that we're giving up our stance here
as far as a remedy, as far as the height is
concerned, the density and so forth. We're not
giving up any of that. We're not suggesting
giving up any of that. We're talking about a
figure.
MAYOR VORESS: What do you say,
Rusty?
MR. ROBERTS: You know, the more I
reflect on it, it seemed to me what he's saying
is because he made the statement that, you know,
I'll restructure my deal but I'll be out of it
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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which I think is what Arthur is saying is, you
know, here's the deal, you write it however you
want to, but in return for that you pay me five
and a half million dollars. That's my bottom
line. Because you asked him, Arlin, is there any
other risk or down side and he goes no. And I
think what he's saying to you if you want to
write it your way, okay, pay me five and a half
million. That's what his offer is.
MR. RAND: Might be.
MAYOR VORESS: Could be.
MS. MARIANO: Why don't we ask him
that. I think we ought to find out the remedies
before we say yes. Ask him about that.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, I think that's
where he's headed. I don't think he said that
yet. That's where he's headed. And to think
that -- I don't think at this stage they're
coming down off the figure because that's the
point I've made is that they made the five and a
half million dollar figure in January. It has
remained constant since then. We've offered them
money, they came back early this evening and
nothing on money, I asked them what's your
figure, are you going to counter, he came back,
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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oh, that's the lowest I can go. I mean that's
what I'm hearing. That's my bottom dollar, five
and a half million dollars, and I think it's
based upon his feeling that you got the money,
and, you know, for whatever reason you people
just don't want to pony up with it.
MAYOR VORESS: I think he feels the
town can afford to pay it. I think that's
absolutely right.
MR. ROBERTS: Absolutely. He thinks
that you can afford five and a half million and I
think you probably can. But it's really whether
you want to pay it or not.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: When we had the
meeting where the public was invited and we
shared with them partly where we were and that
five and a half million figure was made public at
that point, I believe.
MAYOR VORESS: Yes.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: And there was not
one person that said to me I think that's great,
go and do it. The people that talked to me said
you're not going to stop there, are you? You're
going to go on and -- I mean that's just a
starting point, isn't it?
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. RAND: No, Bill, I think there
were two people --
MAYOR VORESS: That's wrong.
MR. RAND: I think there were two
people because we talked about it -- we mentioned
the fact --
VICE MAYOR PAUL: John, I said the
people that talked to me afterwards about the
meeting.
MR. RAND: Oh, okay. Because at the
meeting we mentioned the fact that they had asked
for five and a half million dollars and I think
the judge and Neil Bert mentioned the fact that a
settlement is worth it any day of the week and
twice on Sundays, so I know we did say it might
not be five million, it might be less, and if we
can negotiate it, so much the better, but there
was no objection to the five million dollar
settlement. On the contrary, I got the
impression that Bill Coleman or anybody else was
most supportive of our being able to get rid of a
potential twenty million dollar liability for
five million dollars.
MS. MARIANO: I think Mr. Coleman on
the record said though because I've talked to him
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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since then that certainly that doesn't mean
that's what you're going to give them, and I
think the other issue was that the money was one
thing, but if you remember the one gentleman
thought that we were getting the land for five
and a half million dollars. And the other thing
you have to consider is they thought that that
would get rid of it, but a lot of the residents,
as you can tell by what went on out there, when
they realized that it was the money plus they
were going to get to build everything, the
buildings were upsetting to them, too. You mean
they're still going to get to do that, you know,
even if that --
MR. RAND: Phil was concerned about
the height. I remember that.
MS. MARIANO: He was very concerned.
MR. RAND: About the sixteen
opportunity. We're gambling here. They're
gambling on whether or not they're going to
collect anything, so they figure we were better
off coming away with something and they figure
five million dollars is worth the risk. We're
gambling that we're better off paying them, let's
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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say, five million dollars than run the risk of
paying twenty million dollars. So we both have
similar motives here and we're both gambling.
MS. MARIANO: That's right. As long
as we know that that's the ultimate risk. That's
what we're saying with regard to remedies.
Whatever the risk is, whatever you all decide
that needs to be the end of it and they can go on
to get more money, and that's the issue. That's
the remedy issue.
MAYOR VORESS: Well, one of the
characteristics of a settlement of this nature is
neither side are happy about it. Remember I've
told you that before. And that's one of the
characteristics. Nobody's happy about paying
that kind of money. I can tell you that right
now.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: It's not a question
of being happy or not happy. I think it's going
to be extremely difficult for us to pay it.
MR. RAND: I don't agree with that.
MAYOR VORESS: No.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Five and a half?
MAYOR VORESS: Yes.
MR. RAND: I don't agree with you.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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You're talking then of borrowing three million
dollars instead of a million and a half.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Right.
MR. RAND: The interest factor is
still covered by our present budget.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: How are you going
to repay the rest?
MR. RAND: I just told you we don't
pay anything, Dave. We wait. You have a
ten-year financing vehicle. Okay? A total of
five years. No principal amortization. And in
five years time we address it. We don't have to
prepay the obligation at that time or call it
in. We wait and see what we have in the town,
what our assessed valuation base is, and then
determine whether or not we want to call the bond
and then refinance it for a long period or let it
run the ten years.
MR. ROBERTS: It's like the federal
government.
MAYOR VORESS:
at six and a half percent.
MR. AUGENSTEIN:
things are available?
That's 195,000 a year
Are you sure those
MR. RAND: Well, you've got 367,000
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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that you appropriated that certainly is
available, less whatever we paid thus far so I'd
say it's certainly available.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: That's a long way
off from three million.
MR. RAND: What?
MR. AUGENSTEIN: That's a long way
off from three million.
MR. RAND: No, six percent on three
million is $180,000 a year. And what I'm
suggesting is that it shouldn't be our burden
alone to pay for this thing. Okay? We are
delaying the repayment of this obligation in the
years down the road just like the federal
government does in covering its deficit borrowing
from Social Security. The Social Security is not
bankrupt. Social Security is a fantastic
financial vehicle and solvent and has no problem
paying off its obligations to all its
contributors, but it's the fact that the federal
government has borrowed from the Social Security
Administration that has presented the problem for
Social Security. And in this case what I'm
saying is that if you wait the five years, this
property is going to be built. I can't imagine
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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a
this -- somebody buying this property and leaving
it lie vacant for five years. I find that very
difficult to believe.
MS. MARIANO: Except I talked to Mr.
Coleman this morning just to give you another
example. I don't know how long -- Arthur, you
live across the street. The Beach Walk west side
has been settled for that long, has been put up
for auction, they did not get one bid and that's
an unencumbered piece of property with no
problems and with greater zoning relief than
other parcels in town. That has been settled for
a long time. There was not one bid on that
property. And that doesn't have some of the
problems this had. So I'm not sure that we can
say that we know that in five years it's going to
be built. I wouldn't want to base it on that. I
still think we have -- we still can do those
things you're talking about, but I don't know
that we should base it on an expectation that
it's going to be built.
MR. RAND: So maybe not five years,
then seven years. In other words, it's callable
after five years, but that doesn't mean we have
to call it in. You can wait till the sixth year,
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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you can wait till the seventh year, you can wait
till the eighth year and then view the situation
and see where we stand as far as our tax base is
concerned to see whether or not we want to
finance the obligation anew and then start
amortizing over a period of twenty-five years
which makes it less onerous for the present
residents and for future residents in the town.
I mean why should we have to absorb
the burden of this thing? First of all, none of
us had anything to do with it in the first place
so we're being asked to assume the burden of this
obligation, so why shouldn't we ask the people
who live in this piece of property and other
future residents who come to town to also assume
the burden? Why should it be just us?
VICE MAYOR PAUL: At this point I
can't find it in my heart to go any higher than
3.5.
MAYOR VORESS: $367,000 at six and a
half percent interest will finance 5.7 million
dollars.
MR. EYPEL: What if we offered --
what if we offered to split it with them?
MR. RAND: That's what I suggest,
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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split the difference.
MR. EYPEL: Split the difference
with them. I think that's a reasonable deal.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Two five to five
five?
MR. RAND: Two five to four. In
other words, the difference is three million.
want two five, they want five five. The
difference is three million. Half of three
million is a million and a half.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Four and a half
million?
MR. RAND: No, four million.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: The total is four
million.
We
MR. EYPEL: I don't think -- my
problem with this whole thing is that a million
and a half dollars means a great deal to us, and
to them it means practically nothing. It's not
even a blink.
MR. RAND: No, it may not mean
anything to them as far as that part is
concerned, but it does mean something to them to
reach a settlement with us so they can sell this
piece of property and get ten million or twelve
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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million.
MR. EYPEL: Why would they be
unwilling to cut the town a little slack?
MR. RAND: That's what I started to
say I would counter four million and point out to
them we've made considerable concessions here.
First of all, the court ordered us to give you
five years to build this property, we're giving
you ten years, so that's worth something, too.
Okay?
MR. EYPEL: Sure.
MR. RAND: We made concessions. We
have agreed to apply the 1985 fees and so forth.
I mean we've made a lot of concessions.
MR. EYPEL: A lot of zoning
concessions.
MR. RAND: The zoning concessions.
Okay? We gave them 427 units. Okay? We've
given them sixteen stories which we weren't happy
about doing in the first place. Okay? Now,
their investment is fourteen million dollars, as
I understand it. They've invested in this
property.
MAYOR VORESS: They say it's
eighteen.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. RAND: So it's eighteen. Okay?
So they're going to get four million from us,
certainly the property they say in their example
to us that they could get nineteen for it. So
they're coming out whole on this thing. What the
hell is the problem? And besides that they talk
about discounting this obligation. I mean I know
of many cases in settling of failed banks that
they've given like ten cents on a dollar, so why
the hell should this be any different? And we're
offering now on twenty million, we're offering
them twenty percent.
MS. MARIANO: Because their position
is because they have a judgment.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Exactly.
MR. RAND: They don't have a
judgment. There is no judgment.
MS. MARIANO: I'm not saying it's
right or wrong. I'm saying that's what their
position is. And the other thing based on if you
want to offer them or you want to come to an
agreement whether it's five five or whether it's
four is based on Rusty's language with regard to
remedies.
MR. RAND: Well, I've said that.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MAYOR VORESS: I think we have to
have Rusty's language. I don't think there's any
doubt about that.
MR. RAND: We want Rusty's
language. I think there has to be an element of
trust involved here. We've satisfied your
requirements as far as the money is concerned by
borrowing it from you, but we don't think that
our terms as proposed in Rusty's draft is
onerous. We don't see where you are not getting
adequate protection for the purpose or objective
that you have in mind. But it's something that
we can live with and we fail to see why this
should be objectionable on your part and let it
go at that. But I don't think that you're going
to -- I don't know if they'll accept four
million, but I think it's a reasonable approach
to say, well, let's split the difference.
MAYOR VORESS: Well, let's talk
about what we're going to do. You want to call
them back in and say four million?
MR. RAND: We have to agree amongst
ourselves.
MAYOR VORESS: Call them back in and
say four million. If they say no, then we'll
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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have another conference. Is that what you're
proposing?
MR. AUGENSTEIN: If they say no?
MAYOR VORESS: Yes.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Then what else
are we going to talk about?
MS. MARIANO: The remedies. I think
we really need to straighten out -- I mean --
MAYOR VORESS: Excuse me. If we say
four million dollars and the language that Rusty
has put in.
MR. RAND: That's what we say.
MAYOR VORESS: That's what we say.
MR. ROBERTS: Four million and my
agreement as drafted.
MAYOR VORESS: Right. Then if they
say no, what do we do, have another meeting?
VICE MAYOR PAUL: At another time.
I think people are wearing out and --
MAYOR VORESS: Well, they'll be
going home. I mean we want to ask them to come
back the next day?
MS. MARIANO: Your agreement as a
whole as drafted. Is that what you're saying.
MR. ROBERTS: Without any changes.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MAYOR VORESS: What do we want to
tell them? If we say no, we can't accept that,
do we ask them to come back at some other time?
I'm trying to understand.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: By asking them to
come back is acquiescing to what they want
because if you ask them to come back that's
telling them we're going to go up.
MAYOR VORESS: So we say okay,
that's it? Is that what we're saying as a
commission? I'm trying to understand what
happens.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: I don't know. What
do you think, John?
MR. RAND: Well, I'm only saying
this. God forbid if they ever get a judgment for
twenty million bucks and the town figures out we
could settle for five million, you'll have a lot
of explaining to do.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: You have a lot of
explaining to do if the judgment comes our way.
MR. RAND: If it does.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: It's a no win
situation for us.
MR. RAND: I'd rather pay four
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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million than five and a half million, but I
wouldn't want to put it to them on the basis
that's take it or leave it.
MAYOR VORESS: I feel the same way.
I would like to settle rather than having it go
to the court.
MR. RAND: I don't think we ought to
put it that it's four million, gentlemen, or
forget it, we have no deal.
MR. EYPEL: Excuse me, gentlemen,
but this is kind of like a poker game here.
MR. RAND: That's what it is.
MR. EYPEL: You either convince them
to the point that they accept it that your offer
of four million dollars is your offer. If there
is even a breath of hope that they think they can
get more, I can assure you we'll be here until
midnight until we acquiesce and concede to their
request. I think what I would like to propose is
a little bit of dialogue with them. I would like
to have an opportunity to explain to them what
that million and a half dollars means to us, not
that they care. I'm sure they don't.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: They don't.
MAYOR VORESS: They don't.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. RAND: They don't give a damn
about our problems.
MS. MARIANO: However, you also have
to consider however this turns out in the end,
these proceedings and everything else will be
made available to the public, so whatever turns
out, whether it's good, bad or indifferent, these
proceedings will --
MAYOR VORESS: Absolutely.
MS. MARIANO: -- explain and educate
the public as to either why you did it or why you
did not do it or what you were being asked to
give up. If they say why didn't you settle for
5.5, well, if they read the record they see that
you are giving up your rights and they could have
gone back and got twenty. This is something that
would have been made public.
MR. RAND: That's a powerful
argument.
MS. MARIANO: So that is one of the
reasons why these things are made public so that
later on, whatever the outcome is, the public has
a right to the thought process as to how you have
arrived at what you arrive at.
MAYOR VORESS: Absolutely.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. RAND: Well, I think if we agree
we ought to point out to them that the court only
gave you five years -- made us conform to this
judgment over a period of five years. We agreed
to give you ten in accordance with your request.
You wanted a sixteen -story building, we agreed to
give you a sixteen -story building. That was
never discussed before and so forth. So
certainly that has some value. In the interest
of trying to resolve this problem, we would like
to suggest that we split the difference, that is
we give you the four million dollars borrowing it
from you as proposed, but on the condition that
the settlement stipulation be on the proposed
form that Mr. Roberts has given except for those
sentences that he's agreed to as far as
modification is concerned. And then say -- see
what they say. If they say, well, then there's
no deal, we'll say fine, thank you for coming.
MR. ROBERTS: I would suggest that
you go first to three and a half million and give
yourself the leeway of another half million to
close the deal.
MR. RAND: Well, how do you feel
about that, gentlemen?
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MAYOR VORESS: Well, I'll tell you I
personally don't want them to walk off from
here. If they walk off from here, then what are
we going to do, initiate conversations later on
some time, meanwhile the court is moving right
along?
MR. RAND: You can always go back
next month and say we'll give you the five
million.
MR. EYPEL: Yeah, but then you give
them the opportunity --
MR. RAND: To ask for six.
MR. EYPEL: You know, I can't -- I
tend to agree with Arlin. I would like to
structure something.
MAYOR VORESS: Strike a number.
MR. EYPEL: Yes, strike a number.
Let's discuss for a moment what we're talking
about as far as imposing burden on our
townspeople, our town folk. Is our effort to,
let's say, negotiate down, is it worth the risk
that we must face if they do walk away from here
tonight with no deal? I myself would feel much
more comfortable if we had the remedy issue one
hundred percent solved in our advantage. I do
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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not want to be exposed to twenty million dollars
if somebody blinks wrong on their own time. I am
not interested in being exposed to that kind of
liability, and, quite frankly, gentlemen, I would
rather pay a little more money up front to be
relieved of that and have it over once and for
all.
MR. RAND: What are you saying?
MR. EYPEL: How much are you
prepared to pay?
MR. RAND: Would you be willing to
pay 5.5 million? What are you saying?
MR. EYPEL: I'm saying that we're
down to the nubs is where we are. We're down to
the nitty-gritty here, and whatever we say we
have to say it with conviction and we must mean
it.
MR. RAND: Of course, but that
doesn't mean that we're closing the door. We're
counter proposing four million dollars. That
doesn't mean that that's our final figure. We're
not saying take it or leave it, gentlemen.
MR. EYPEL: You can always go up.
You can't go down.
MR. RAND: Exactly.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. EYPEL: You can always go up.
MR. RAND: I can't see where they'd
come in and tell you they'd take four. They said
5.5. We said two and a half million. So we
suggest we split the difference. All they can
say is no. And we'll say fine, and in that case
we'll have to give this further consideration but
we can't do that tonight.
MS. MARIANO: Maybe we can say that
we need to wait on our -- on Mr. Schoech who is
out of town and unable to be here and is our
municipal finance expert that needs to come in.
MR. RAND: But that it has to be --
that has to be that this document be as drafted
by Mr. Roberts. We're not prepared to accept
other than the modification that you've agreed
to, Rusty. I think you ought to make that point,
but I'm not suggesting by any manner, shape or
form that we close the door and say take it or
leave it and we walk away. I'm not saying that.
MR. EYPEL: But, you see, it's so
delicate, John. How you say that is, you know,
we're dealing with people who do this for a
living.
MR. RAND: That's right.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. EYPEL: And how you phrase it
and how you say it, they're going to be watching
body language. They're going to be watching.
They're going to be listening carefully, and, you
know, if you leave the slightest opening of doubt
in their mind that you will go higher but that
this is not your last offer, believe me, they're
going to capitalize on it.
MR. RAND: So again it's a question
of how you present it. We would like to suggest
that you consider a cash figure of four million
dollars which represents the difference between
our figure and what you're suggesting, but also
contingent upon the settlement stipulation
wording be as Mr. Roberts has proposed with the
exception that he's agreed upon. How does that
strike you? Now, if they say that's ridiculous,
it's out of the question, we'll say we're sorry,
fine, then we'll have to consider it and we'll
come back to you. That's all. We're not closing
the door.
MR. EYPEL: What do you think,
Mayor?
MAYOR VORESS: Well, I'm going to
weigh in at five and a half million dollars
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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because I would like to see us -- I don't want to
take the chance of them walking away and not
coming back. They really -- if they don't settle
this case, it really is nothing out of their
hide. It's just one deal they didn't get done.
It's a great deal to the residents of the Town of
Highland Beach and people that I have talked to,
a little different than Bill, feel that we ought
to go ahead and if we can get out for five and a
half million dollars, which is what, fifteen,
twenty cents on a buck, that's a pretty good deal
assuming that we get what Rusty has got here.
MR. EYPEL: In other words --
MAYOR VORESS: So my number is five
and a half if we have to make it.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: We're not even
going to go for the four to start with?
MR. RAND: Why don't we start with
four and again present it to them in such a
fashion that we would like them to consider this
counter proposal. And if they say no, then we'll
say, okay, will you excuse us and let us talk
about it some more.
MAYOR VORESS: I have no problem
with us saying that.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. RAND: Say that then.
MAYOR VORESS: But when you say,
well, then they can leave and we'll talk about
something later --
MR. RAND: Then say we would like to
propose.
MR. EYPEL: There is a possibility
that they will agree, Arlin.
MAYOR VORESS: I don't have any
problem with that. The thing I don't want to say
is four is our last offer tonight.
MR. RAND: Fine. If they say no,
four is unacceptable, we say, well, are you
willing to make any consideration. Okay?
MR. ROBERTS: I thought Arlin
already asked that question and, quite frankly,
it seemed to me --
MAYOR VORESS: That the answer was
Eff-exem,
MR. ROBERTS: -- the answer was no.
MR. RAND: So if they say no to the
four million, then say, well, would you allow us
then to deliberate.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, let me just put
my input. I've been involved in negotiations for
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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about the last twenty years in lawsuits, and this
is kind of how far can I push you sort of thing.
It seemed to me that when we prepared this
document up and sent it up there, the comment
that the Mayor informed us was that they're going
to laugh in your face and say nothing. And I
suppose that that was based upon what they told
you, that, you know, if you come back with
anything less, I'm not even going to talk to
you. Well, they're here. Okay? What does that
tell you? Okay. I think that they're here
because they want to settle. If they wanted to
settle it and not negotiate whatsoever --
MR. RAND: They wouldn't be here.
MR. ROBERTS: -- they wouldn't be
here.
MR. RAND: That's what I said.
MR. ROBERTS: They could simply have
written, listen, we told you what we wanted, here
it is. Okay? And I think, you know, that you go
to four million, you can never go back and it
won't be settled for four million.
MR. EYPEL: It won't.
MR. ROBERTS: It will not.
MAYOR VORESS: Well, all I'm saying
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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is if we say four and they say no, my
understanding from what John said let them go.
MR. ROBERTS: I predict what you
say, you'll say I go to four and this agreement.
They'll go I don't know about the agreement, but
I still want five and a half million. If we go
up and select a jury, you get to pass and you get
to select. The more you pass, the more choices
you get. I mean to me in view of this you say,
listen, I'm willing to go more, but if you're not
willing to come down, then we're through for the
night. Okay? Unless there's unanimous agreement
to pay five and a half million with the Mayor,
then I think you're through for the night. Okay?
You can say, listen, I've come down here, I've
made an offer, and I'm willing to go up on that
offer, but I'm not willing at this juncture to
pay five and a half million dollars.
MAYOR VORESS: Right. And I think
we need to hear from the other three
commissioners. I don't know that we heard from
you, Dave. We need to take a concerted view.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: I cannot go to 5.5
tonight.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: I feel the same
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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way. Four is max as far as I'm concerned.
MR. RAND: And if they say no, we'll
ask then to meet at another time to see what we
can do.
MR. ROBERTS: Yeah, but see the
point of that, John, if his max is four million
dollars that you offer them tonight, I guarantee
you they will not settle if you're asking that
man over there to pay more money. I can tell you
from experience what is the jump between four and
five and a half? It's just another jump. And
they're sitting there saying, you know, I'll just
wait until you people come to my number. It
doesn't cost me a thing.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: What are we
supposed to do, tell them we don't want
anything?
MR. ROBERTS: Unless there's some
movement on your part we're not going to move
too. This is a negotiated deal. If your
position is five and a half million dollars and
that's it, then why did you all come down here?
MR. EYPEL: That's right. I think
that's a valid way to start, approach it from
the --
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. AUGENSTEIN: Well, he didn't
come to negotiate. He came to contact.
MR. ROBERTS: He came down just to
sign the agreement. Well, you know, tell us
that.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: He said he's ready
to sign.
MR. ROBERTS: Yeah, on his terms.
MS. MARIANO: I also don't think
they can walk away from the negotiation. I think
we have enough clout to put extreme pressure on
him to not walk away from the negotiation
regardless of what is said that they'll walk away
and not -- and refuse to negotiate any further.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: Can we approach it
instead of throwing it out to four, let them
figure that out and say halfway.
MR. EYPEL: Or let's ask them. I
think Rusty's approach makes sense that instead
of us giving them a number, say look, we are
willing to move. It's a tremendous burden on us
to move up. It is in my opinion very little of a
burden for them to come down a little. It will
mean practically nothing to them.
MR. ROBERTS: You could easily say,
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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listen, I'm prepared to move, you know, a
million, a million and a half more dollars. Does
that make any difference to you or is your figure
five and a half? If it is, let's go home and
talk another day.
MR. RAND: Well, that's what I
suggested.
MR. ROBERTS: No, your suggestion,
John, is I want to offer them four, and the
difficulty I have with that position is once you
offered it, you'll never go back.
MR. RAND: Where is that any
different than saying you're prepared --
MR. ROBERTS: You'll never go back
and you'll never settle for that.
MR. RAND: What is the difference
between saying we would like to counter-offer
four million as opposed to saying we're prepared
to go up another million and a half? I don't
understand the difference.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, we're prepared
to go up another million, million and a half.
You give yourself the flexibility. It might fall
somewhere in there. I'm willing to go up.
Okay. Say I'm willing to go up on it, are you
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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willing to come down?
MR. RAND: Okay. Try that.
MAYOR VORESS: I think you know
their answer.
MR. RAND: Suppose they say no, it's
got to be 5.5 million. What is our response?
MR. ROBERTS: Well, let's meet
another day.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: It's very late.
Let's meet another day.
MS. MARIANO: What if they say
tomorrow, we'll be here overnight?
MR. EYPEL: If they're going to come
back tomorrow, we can stay tonight and fix it.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: You're young.
MR. ROBERTS: Let's --
MS. MARIANO: We need time to think
about it.
MR. ROBERTS: We were here to
negotiate in good faith. You were at five and a
half million, we're at two and a half million.
If you're staying right there, then, you know,
that's not negotiating. Let's all rethink our
position.
MR. RAND: Okay.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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VICE MAYOR PAUL: Gentlemen, you're
going on a seven -hour day just from this
executive session.
MR. ROBERTS: They'll come back
tomorrow. I mean because essentially,
essentially what you're faced with right now is
simply if you all get together and say I'm
willing to pay five and a half million, that's
all you have to do and it's a done deal.
MR. RAND: I know but I'm personally
prepared to go to that level only after finding
out whether they're prepared to negotiate.
MR. ROBERTS: Let's get them in here
and ask them that. Say, here, we're willing to
negotiate, but negotiating higher means you
accept our deal. Is that where you're at or
not?
MS. MARIANO: Including specifically
section ten because the last time we went through
this, Rusty, you'll remember we thought we had a
deal when we walked out, and the remedies came
back with seven extra pages.
MAYOR VORESS: I think we have to
say that more money but agreement with Rusty's
proposal.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. RAND: Except as agreed upon and
modified -- except as to agreed modification and
see what their reaction is rather than put a take
it or leave it. I'm not suggesting anything of
the sort.
MAYOR VORESS: I don't want take it
or leave it. The circuit court is going on. And
they're going on their own schedule.
MR. RAND: Well, let's see what
their reaction is.
(A brief recess is taken.)
(The RTC representatives return to
the hearing room.)
MR. ROBERTS: We're all assembled
again. It's 9:47. Okay? 9:43. We have
obviously been discussing this and I'm just
asking as a spokesman, okay? It's kind of our
feeling that, you know, what has been said is
that you're at five and a half million dollars,
and I think that, you know, there's two aspects
of this, the agreement and the money. Okay? And
I think what is being understood is that the
agreement is not so important to you if the money
is right.
MR. HAMBRIC: I think there's more
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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flexibility in the agreement if the money is
right.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, here's the
proposal that we have to you. The town is
willing to come up with more than the two and a
half million dollars offered so far, but in order
to do that we want the agreement as I've drafted
it, and we also want to know if five and a half
million dollars is your final figure or you're
willing to come down.
MR. HAMBRIC: I think I said before
five and a half million dollars is the lowest
number I can justify.
MR. ROBERTS: So 5.5 is your bottom
dollar.
MR. HAMBRIC: That's correct.
MR. ROBERTS: Now, if we were to pay
5.5 million dollars, would we do it based upon my
agreement?
MR. HAMBRIC: I think we can look at
it and I think there's certain things in there
like the RPUD, it's in your best interests to
look at it. There may be things in there
beneficial for you.
MR. ROBERTS: Well, I think we've
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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already done that.
MR. HAMBRIC: So what's the risk of
the down side when you look at that that you see
is worse than -- or that tenders the -- what's
the problem with it?
MR. ROBERTS: It's what I think I
expressed initially. It creates an inconsistency
between development parameters and something
that's different than those development
parameters. That's the down side of it.
MR. HAMBRIC: What's -- the
development parameters I don't think we
finalized, did we?
MR. ROBERTS: Well, it's getting
late and I think that, you know, the town is not
prepared to pay tonight 5.5 million dollars, so
if that is in fact your position, then, you know,
we need to take some time and talk about it
further.
MR. HAMBRIC: That's our position.
MR. ROBERTS: Okay. I'll leave it
to any of these gentlemen to say, but I think
that's essentially it.
MR. EYPEL: Are we permitted to --
can we make some comments, Mayor?
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MAYOR VORESS: Sure.
MR. EYPEL: Mr. Hambric, I would
like to share with you a few thoughts and you and
I have never met. I've never met any of you
folks before tonight that I'm aware of, and I'm
going to speak as a 42 -year resident of this
town. When I came here there were 76 people in
the town. There are now roughly 3,000 people.
Contrary to popular belief, this town is not
populated by millionaires with money rolling out
of their pockets. Yes, we do have million dollar
homes on the beach. Yes, we are assessed at X
number of dollars. But I'd like to share with
you, Mr. Hambric, that you can go down to the
Ambassador South and the Ambassador East and you
can find people in their seventies and eighties
in those buildings who paid $17,500 for their
retirement home. I'm not crying poor mouth to
you, but I'm telling you with all my heart and
every bit of sincerity that I have that if we
commit to you for one entire year's budget of
this town, one entire year annual budget of this
town you are going to impose a tremendous burden
on some people who do not deserve to be treated
unfairly. Okay?
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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There are people here who that money
means a great deal to. It means they'll have no
new fire department. We will have no new
government complex, we will have no new library
and for the next twenty years, sir, they can look
at their tax bill every year and say, gee, we
enhanced the federal government's coffers by an
additional 1.5 million dollars. 1.5 million.
And we're going to pay for it over twenty to
thirty years.
Now, of course you could say to me,
yes, Mr. Eypel, but I have a judgment in my
pocket that may come alive again for twenty
million bucks, and guess what? Those same 3,000
retired people in the Ambassadors and the Seagate
and all the other small buildings around here,
they're going to have to pay a lot of money for a
lot of years, and they'll never forget the
Resolution Trust Corporation as long as they
live.
I think what I'm trying to say is
that your bottom line is five and a half million
dollars. This is an extremely small town. And
this is a tremendous burden on these people. And
that's what I'm charged with, to look after their
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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309
interests and to try and help them as best I can
and negotiate the best possible deal. Do I want
them exposed to a twenty million dollar
liability? I'd have to move out of this town,
and you know it. I'd have to move out of this
town. And I've been here 42 years and I have no
intention of moving.
And I'll pay my taxes, my federal
taxes, my income tax, my state tax, my county tax
and your tax for whatever period of time, but I'm
asking you if you came here in good faith to
negotiate a settlement with us, then let's
negotiate. We sent you a valid proposal and I
get back a letter that says you've already
reached monetary agreement with this town. I
didn't sign anything. That's your letter, not
mine. We are here to try and work out a
settlement that may hurt both of us. I don't
feel good about it and I'm not supposed to. I'm
trying to settle it.
So please understand that any amount
that you're able to come off your figure means a
great deal to the people of this town. Not some
of them. Some of them can well afford it. They
could care less. They don't know who you are.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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They'll never even remember my name or your name
or the amount of the tax bill. They'll just
write a check and in the mail it goes. But
there's a lot of people in this town that when
they see that $400 a year for the next thirty
years or the $500 a year, you're taking food out
of their mouth. You're not. Pardon me. You
have nothing to do with it. But the burden is
there, and I'm asking you in your sense of
fairness to realize that and to understand that
it's a tremendous burden on a very small town
populated by a lot of retired folks. That's it.
MR. HAMBRIC: Commissioner, I think
it's -- again, you and I aren't the guilty
parties here when we say you. First of all, if
you look at a -- I don't know what business
you're in, but if you look at a twenty million
dollar judgment, you present value it for risk
and you present value it for time.
MR. EYPEL: Yes, sir.
MR. HAMBRIC: It's well above five
and a half million dollars.
MR. EYPEL: Yes, it is.
MR. HAMBRIC: It's well above that.
Unfortunately I have to stand up some day and, as
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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we like to say in the RTC, when all the
indictments come down and we're drug before a
Congressional committee, I'm going to have to
defend that number.
MR. EYPEL: I don't think you are,
Mr. Hambric. I have it on good authority that
you do not have to defend that number.
MR. HAMBRIC: Well, I'm telling you
from the people I work for I have to defend that
number. Everything I do I have to defend,
whether it's the Town of Highland Beach
negotiation or John Doe.
MR. EYPEL: That's in direct
conflict with --
MR. HAMBRIC: Who are you talking
to?
MR. EYPEL: I don't want to go into
the details of who we're talking to but -- I'm
sorry. Go ahead.
MR. HAMBRIC: I have been told by my
boss in Washington, try to negotiate a settlement
that's fair to both sides. You have the
authority and you'll be able to justify it. And
at five and a half million dollars, to be honest
with you, I've double -dipped on the discount
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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rate, as I've explained to the Mayor and John
Douglas at one meeting, I've added a lot of risk
in there and the truth of the matter if you
present value the deal, it's a seven to ten
million dollar deal. The Mayor and I have talked
about this before. This is not some mystical
ball, you just write numbers down and you hit the
Hewlett Packard and you hit the numbers and
that's what they turn out to be.
MR. EYPEL: Assuming you win --
MR. HAMBRIC: And I'm discounting
the probability that I may not win, I mean I'm
putting a fairly substantial discount factor for
the probability of success.
MR. RAND: Jay, why would you be so
concerned about justifying a 25 percent
settlement when in many instances RTC has settled
for ten cents on a dollar with a lot of the
failed banks?
MR. HAMBRIC: We're averaging 92
cents on the dollar for book value. As a
corporation we average 92 cents on the dollar for
recoveries.
MR. RAND: But there are a lot of
settlements that you've made, Jay, on the basis
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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of ten cents on the dollar.
MR. HAMBRIC: That's right. There's
a lot of people it's the blood from the turnip
argument that a dollar is all they can pay.
MS. THOMSEN: And that's where you
get your ten cents from. It's not itself a
realization.
MAYOR VORESS: Jay, let us just talk
for a couple of minutes. If you all could just
leave us for a few minutes.
MR. HAMBRIC: Okay.
(The RTC representatives leave the
hearing room.)
MAYOR VORESS: We got the answer to
the question we asked, and I think the
alternative we have is to say okay, go away.
We'll up our number to five five based on you
agreeing with this or some other thing. What's
the sense of the Commission?
VICE MAYOR PAUL: I'm too tired at
this point to -- I don't feel capable of going
any further. It would be unfair.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: I feel we're being
led into this by a very stubborn young man. I
don't know why he came here. He could have said
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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over the telephone or sent us a letter this is my
bottom line and that's it. Instead he has taken
up seven hours of our time and we've gotten
exactly nowhere with him except to find out that
your papers drawn up by Rusty he doesn't like.
MR. EYPEL: I didn't get even a --
is he or is he not willing to agree to our
terms?
MR. ROBERTS: He didn't agree to
it.
MS. MARIANO: We didn't touch on
section ten. We didn't discuss it.
MR. ROBERTS: He said, well, there's
certain things on it and he goes right off on
RPUD. So I mean that to me is no, I want my
agreement. I may agree on certain things here
and there for protection, but I assure you, I
assure you that they're not coming off their
remedies. I can tell you that right now.
MS. MARIANO: We didn't ask him.
That's the answer we don't have is the remedies.
MR. ROBERTS: But, you know --
MS. MARIANO: But you can see that
that's the tone.
MR. ROBERTS: I asked him, use my
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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agreement. And there was no.
MR. EYPEL: It was no?
MR. ROBERTS: No.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: Is he talking from
strength or is he just bluffing?
MR. ROBERTS: Just like he said
before, it's a poker game.
MAYOR VORESS: Commissioner Rand,
what do you think?
MR. RAND: I'm just scared as hell
in losing the possibility of settling this thing,
and I don't know that a difference of a million
and a half is that -- is worth the risk. I'm
concerned about losing the opportunity of
settling a potential twenty million dollars
liability. I don't like the idea of paying 5.5
million and then also having to agree with the
type of agreement that they want. I don't think
they can have it both ways. I'd be willing to go
to five and a half million, but I will insist on
the agreement being as Rusty has proposed. That
would be the only compromise I'm prepared to
make.
MR. ROBERTS: I asked him that and
he said no.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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VICE MAYOR PAUL: Right. As we
said, we're gambling, and when all the facts are
available to the residents of this town --
because the concern has been voiced to me is what
is going to be built there through the years, and
if we give too much in the building parameters, I
think there are many people who would be willing
to take the gamble of getting hit with the twenty
million to keep your density and stuff minimal as
to give a lot of concessions.
MAYOR VORESS: Okay. Let me say
what I think. I'm willing to go to five five
because I don't want to take the chance either.
But I think from my perspective I would like to
say to the RTC, okay, we'll make a proposal to
you at 5.5 if the redraft of the document is
consistent with Rusty's piece, we don't have
those. Maybe we can get some arguments one way
or the other.
no.
MR. ROBERTS: I asked him, he said
MS. MARIANO: He said no.
MAYOR VORESS: He didn't say no.
MR. EYPEL: He was vague on that.
MAYOR VORESS: He didn't say no.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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And to say if it's consistent that we will offer
five five, that's my position, not the whole
Commission, that we will offer five five if the
document is drafted consistent with Rusty's thing
as it relates to building parameters, as it
relates to remedies, as it relates to --
MR. EYPEL: And they must agree
tonight or we don't pay the money or we go back
to square one. If they agree tonight. Right,
Arlin?
MAYOR VORESS: They would have to
agree to that and the document that would be
drafted would be consistent with agreeing with
Rusty's piece. We've got to have a piece of
paper finally. We can't -- ultimately when we
get a deal between the two of us, there must be a
piece of paper we can display to the town, send
to the court and get both parties to sign. So
we've got to have a new piece of paper.
MR. RAND: They also have to
incorporate if they loan it to us under what
terms, interest fee and so forth.
MAYOR VORESS: On the incorporation
of the loan.
MR. RAND: Yeah.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MS. MARIANO: Why don't you just
clarify your question with them.
MR. EYPEL: Why don't we get them in
here and see what they'll loan us the money for.
MS. MARIANO: Clarify your question
with regard to the agreement first. I mean we
need to clarify that.
MAYOR VORESS: We have several
different views on the part of the Commission.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: We're buckling in
too quickly, too easily.
MAYOR VORESS: Let's take a vote on
the Commission what they would propose to do. I
think we each had a chance of saying what we
thought.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: I'll start off by
saying I'd like to delay it. I don't think I
want to vote tonight on this issue. It is too
fresh. I want to give it more thought.
MR. EYPEL: I'm prepared to do it
tonight if we can get them to come to terms, and
I will -- I'll go along with the five and a half
if they will agree to settling and to the -- we
want remedies that Rusty has drafted. I will not
expose the town to seventeen or twenty million
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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dollars or whatever it is.
MAYOR VORESS: All right. Bill.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: I hate to be
pushed into having to vote tonight after we've
been in this room for -- since one o'clock or
SO.
MAYOR VORESS: Okay. So you don't
want to do that. You prefer not to do anything
tonight.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: I wish we didn't
have to do anything tonight, yes.
MAYOR VORESS: John.
MR. RAND: I've stated my position.
I'm prepared to go to five and a half million
dollars because I don't want to run the risk
of --
MAYOR VORESS: I think it's three to
two that we call them in and tell them that. Is
that what I understand?
MR. ROBERTS: I think you ought to
make a motion.
MAYOR VORESS: I move -- well,
let's -- somebody else probably ought to move.
MR. RAND: I move that we agree to
accept the cash settlement of 5.5 million
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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provided their loan conditions to us are
acceptable. They haven't indicated what it would
be. And that settlement will be contingent upon
their agreeing to the settlement stipulation
draft being in accordance with that prepared by
Rusty Roberts except as agreed by him as to its
modifications.
MAYOR VORESS: Is there a second?
MR. EYPEL: I'll second that.
MAYOR VORESS: I'd like to have a
roll call vote, I guess. Commissioner
Augenstein.
MR. AUGENSTEIN: No.
MAYOR VORESS: Commissioner Eypel.
MR. EYPEL: Yes.
MAYOR VORESS: Vice Mayor Paul.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: No.
MAYOR VORESS: Commissioner Rand.
MR. RAND: Yes.
MAYOR VORESS: Mayor. Yes. All
right. It's three to two. Let's call them back
in.
(The RTC representatives return to
the hearing room.)
MAYOR VORESS: Jay, the Commission
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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has passed a motion to talk to you about a
proposition, and I'll ask Commissioner Rand, who
made the motion, to relate that to you.
MR. HAMBRIC: Okay.
MR. RAND: The majority of the
Commission is prepared to accept your cash
settlement of 5.5 million based on a loan from
you on conditions that are acceptable. You
haven't indicated what they would be. Would you
loan it to us for six months and what other
conditions would apply.
MR. HAMBRIC: Well, let's call it --
you've mentioned a down payment of some amount
that could be paid immediately, some additional
moneys I think in a short period of time, the
remaining balance we'll call it interest free for
six months. In the event it goes past six months
it would accrue interest.
MR. RAND: At what rate? The
ninety -day treasury bill rate?
MR. HAMBRIC: I'm going to throw out
a term and I don't want anybody to be offended by
it. If it goes six months, if it's not paid, do
we then consider that default or do we have an
exercise to option to renew?
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. RAND: You would have an option
to renew, but then of course at an interest rate
that would be acceptable. We don't anticipate
going beyond six months, but in the event that it
should --
MR. HAMBRIC: We'll take treasury
plus --
MR. RAND: A spread.
MR. HAMBRIC: -- a spread. Two
percent or something to that effect.
MR. RAND: Now, that cash figure
settlement is contingent upon your agreeing to
the settlement stipulation as drafted by Mr.
Roberts except for those changes that he has
agreed to.
MR. HAMBRIC: Okay.
MR. RAND: So the settlement is
absolutely contingent upon your acceptance of a
settlement stipulation as proposed by Mr.
Roberts. Otherwise there's no deal.
MR. HAMBRIC: There's some things in
there I think we need to talk about. Some things
that we mentioned we're willing to concede on and
some things in there in the development
parameters. If you can -- I don't know how many
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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are deal breakers, but, for example --
MR. RAND: Well, the remedies I can
tell you right off the bat are a deal breaker.
That's out.
MR. HAMBRIC: And the remedies, as I
mentioned, if we get out of this within six
months in the spirit of what the town's doing,
I'm giving up remedies looking at the full
judgment.
MR. RAND: Okay. So that's one step
in the right direction.
MR. HAMBRIC: Yes. There's some
other things in there I need a step in the right
direction also such as --
MR. RAND: We're not prepared to go
eighteen stories. It's sixteen stories with ten -
foot ceiling.
MR. HAMBRIC: We'll build three
towers then.
MR. RAND: That's okay. We agree.
MAYOR VORESS: Fine.
MR. RAND: We agree to that.
MR. HAMBRIC: Okay. One of the
things that did come up, someone mentioned that
when we made one of the phone calls you can't
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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build a garage at ten feet because you have to
have plumbing, other things coming down to meet
code because you have to run water, all those
kinds of things, so you need twelve feet for
garages.
MR. RAND: I don't anticipate that
would be a problem, is it, Mrs. Mariano?
MS. MARIANO: If you leave it with
sixteen feet and with two garages and the garages
are twelve feet and the rest of the floors are
ten feet.
MR. RAND: I don't think that would
be a problem.
MR. HAMBRIC: So we can look at then
either three buildings or two buildings with
twelve -foot garages?
MR. RAND: Correct.
MR. HAMBRIC: And I understand that
comes in again for safety and infrastructure.
MR. RAND: Right.
MR. HAMBRIC: I think we worked out
on the sale date, ten years from the sale date.
MR. RAND: No, that's from the order
date. That stands. I don't see any reason
why -- Jay, the Court only gave you five years.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. HAMBRIC: If I'm giving you six
months free interest, you can't give me six
months additional time from the date --
MAYOR VORESS: We can set it for ten
years and six months.
MR. HAMBRIC: Yeah, I mean we can
set it for ten years from December or whatever
the time.
MR. RAND: That's agreeable, yes.
MR. ROBERTS: Wait a minute. Point
of order here. Mayor, the proposal means as
proposed. I didn't think it meant negotiating
and you're negotiating without the consent of the
Commission. So it's either accept it or don't.
And if you don't accept it, then we'll have to
talk about it some more. Either except it as
written --
MAYOR VORESS: Let me speak to the
other things.
MR. HAMBRIC: If you would give me a
chance to go through and mention some items that
are outstanding, then you can meet on it and say
if you think those are reasonable or not, and if
you don't then I guess we all do whatever we want
to do.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. RAND: Right.
MR. HAMBRIC: But again looking at
the order date, since we're financing for six
months, it seems reasonable it would be whatever
that time frame is from either sale date, ten
years from sale date or settlement date with the
town, order date. I mean that sounds reasonable
to me. The infrastructure, if somebody could
tell me that the water and sewer is there and you
could hook up to it, that would solve the
infrastructure problem.
MAYOR VORESS: It's there now.
MR. RAND: We agreed to that.
MR. HAMBRIC: Well, that was one of
the issues in the language of the agreement. I'd
just like someone to say that there's water and
sewer hook-ups there and if you started building
tomorrow, the infrastructure is there to start
building tomorrow.
MAYOR VORESS: Let's ask the town
manager.
MS. MARIANO: The infrastructure is
there now.
MAYOR VORESS: It's there. In
place. The lines run in front of the property.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. HAMBRIC: All right. Where we
talked about development parameters and then the
conflict with development parameters, I guess I
asked the question is there any conflict, does
anyone know of any conflict, for example, if our
parameters say one thing and your town ordinance
says something else, is there conflict, do we
need to identify that conflict up front? I think
that was in page eight. The language was added,
"To the extent they do not conflict with the
development parameters or the terms of the
stipulation, whichever should take precedence."
Are there any conflicts, does anybody know, if
the development parameters conflict with your
current codes and ordinances?
MS. MARIANO: Well, if they didn't
we wouldn't need parameters, would we? If
nothing was in conflict, we would just go by
code. That's why we're doing the parameters
because certainly there's going to be some
conflicts in the parameters with the present
code, I would think. That's what parameters
are.
MR. ROBERTS: They absolutely
c o n f 1 i c t .
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MS. MARIANO: Certainly you do.
MR. ROBERTS: What you're talking
about is building code as opposed to zoning
code. The building code is different from the
zoning code. Your parameters addressed zoning
issues. The building addresses walls, studs,
things of that nature. Those aren't covered by
zoning. And that's why it takes precedence.
That's the Standard Building Code.
MR. HAMBRIC: So are there any in
this idea of building so many stories, is there
anything there that's a conflict with the current
codes that we're aware of as proposed in the
parameters? I don't know. I'm asking the
question.
MR. ROBERTS: I don't know either.
MS. MARIANO: The heights, the
setbacks, yeah, sure.
MR. ROBERTS: I don't know. But to
the extent -- what the height is in the building
code?
MS. MARIANO: No, it's in conflict
he said to the town's codes.
MR. ROBERTS: No, no, building
code. Building code.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MS. MARIANO: No, building code only
addresses structural requirements. It doesn't
have anything to do with setbacks, with height,
with size of units or anything like that. It's
just to make sure a building is built in
conformance with the code to make it safe.
MR. ROBERTS: The issues that might
come up is that depending upon your structural
design that you have, it may require more fire
escapes or windows like that, and any architect
or land planner gets involved like that, so it's
going to impact upon your design of your
buildings. So whatever the developer has in mind
they've got to take it and what is meant by that
provision is the building code takes precedence
because for the safety of those residents is the
prime importance rather than the pocketbook of
the developer.
MR. HAMBRIC: Okay. And the
remedies, playing devil's advocate a minute, if
the town defaults on the note, which I don't
expect it to happen, but generally when you write
a note it mentions something about default,
attorneys' fees and the default rate of interest
if the town defaults. I'm assuming you want the
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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same terms and conditions as anyone else signing
a note.
MR. RAND: It depends on wnat Inose
terms and conditions are.
MR. HAMBRIC: What's the default
rate of interest in the state of Florida? We can
put an option in to extend for another period of
time but --
MR. RAND: I don't know that there's
a default interest. There's a maximum.
MR. HAMBRIC: There's a default rate
of interest.
MR. RAND: I'm not aware that
there's a law regarding default interest. I
think that's negotiable to the extent of the
usury law.
MR. HAMBRIC: You're the Florida
lawyer. What's the current -- when you see
notes, what's the default rate?
MR. ROBERTS: He's right, there is
no default rate of interest. It's just the usury
law.
MR. HAMBRIC: What's the usury?
MR. ROBERTS: 21 or 22 percent.
MR. HAMBRIC: So I don't assume
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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you're going to default, but I do need to write
something in there saying in the event you do
default I can go up to eighteen percent interest
and attorneys' fees. Is that fair?
MR. RAND: I have no objection to
that. Mr. Hambric, please remember that we
expect the right to prepay this note.
MR. HAMBRIC: No prepayment
penalties. And we talked again the parking, we
worked on the parking. The unit size there was
some question. Again, we got the unit size based
on the comparables of the appraisals for the
property using --
MR. RAND: The square footage size
has to be as agreed in the draft of Mr. Roberts.
That is a deal breaker.
MR. HAMBRIC: I don't have -- Rusty,
I don't have in front of me your -- do you know
the numbers?
MS. MARIANO: Fourteen, sixteen and
eighteen.
MR. HAMBRIC: Fourteen, sixteen and
eighteen. We said ten -foot buffer before you
could do amenities, didn't we?
MR. ROBERTS: Setback.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. HAMBRIC: Setback. I'm not sure
if that's actually in the agreement. Judith,
what did I miss?
MS. THOMSEN: I think what you
missed is the remedies provision, and I think
that we had clearly in Rusty's provision you have
a remedies provision that -- first of all, you
have the earlier one where you waive your rights
in exchange. Then you have the remedies
provision where you only have a remedy if in fact
certain provisions of specific paragraphs of the
agreement, and when we talked about it the
biggest difficulty you have with that is we
haven't gone back through each and said what
paragraphs do we have to have enforced, number
one. But number two, you also don't have the
kind of any memorialization of the spirit of the
compromise which was that the town would be
assisting you and working with you and doing
everything they could to help you within their
boundaries because that's what we're talking
about when we talked about material breach, et
cetera.
MR. HAMBRIC: So what section is the
remedies section in the old --
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MS. THOMSEN: I'll show you. It's
number ten.
MR. HAMBRIC: Number ten.
MS. THOMSEN: What you've done is
you only have certain provisions which in fact
give you the remedy. Violation of other
provisions gives you nothing under the
agreement.
MR. HAMBRIC: Okay. I need to
ask -- I need to talk to Judith a minute about
the remedies.
VICE MAYOR PAUL: We presented an
offer. What are we doing now, modifying it or --
MAYOR VORESS: We're just
understanding what the differences are with
respect to the Commission.
MR. ROBERTS: You want to take a
ten-minute break?
MAYOR VORESS: Ten-minute break.
(A recess is taken.)
MAYOR VORESS: Okay. Jay, you want
to kind of bring us up to speed on where you
stand?
MR. HAMBRIC: Yeah, it's difficult
for me to sit here today and say subject to some
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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of the changes we've made that I can accept the
document, the legal document as written. I think
conceptually I can buy off on the theory. The
problem gets down to I have to go through and
read the thing again when it's drafted. Judith
has to tell me these are the things you're giving
up and this is what you're getting if you give up
something. And from that point of view I can
then look at it and say, well, Judith, is that
and it requires that since we're settling
litigation, it requires Judith's concurrence, I
can't do this without general counsel blessing
the transaction, and until I can sit down and
read with Judith paragraph by paragraph so she
can explain my risk and what I'm giving up, I'm
not in a position to say today that I can accept
the agreement as written because there may be
something in there that's so onerous I can't do
it. I don't know that at this point. I think
conceptually --
MAYOR VORESS: So how shall we get
MR. HAMBRIC: Well, I mean Rusty and
Judith can conference and start writing language
tonight and we'll sit here till they're finished.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MS. THOMSEN: We need to sit down --
MAYOR VORESS: What's your schedule
for tomorrow?
MS. THOMSEN: I can meet with
Rusty. I think that, you know, one of the things
that -- I mean there is one like a side provision
which didn't seem to be material which pertains
to the other property not owned by the RTC which
was whether or not it affected or had any effect
or benefitted, and we have an agreement with Mr.
Hoffman regarding some retainage pond or
whatever, and so I can't -- I wouldn't feel
comfortable signing a document that said that
because I can't say what are the benefits, so I
can't do that. That's a minor issue.
MAYOR VORESS: Can we leave it this
way in the morning -- Rusty, how does your
schedule look?
MR. ROBERTS: I'm booked tomorrow.
MAYOR VORESS: You're booked
tomorrow.
MS. THOMSEN: I think that one of
the things that we were talking about in terms of
the remedy provision and I know that Commissioner
Rand had an objection to which was the
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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enumeration of specific remedies not precluding
for pursuing other remedies, and we exchanged I
think some thought on that that we're willing to
try to fine tune things to be as specific as
possible, but what I pointed out to Jay, I mean
for one thing the remedies provision that is in
Rusty's draft would give us in any event
regardless of what the town does $60,000 a year
for the development of a property like this which
is clearly inadequate. We -- I can certainly
honestly say that I know that Jay would like
nothing better than to reach agreement and for us
to be able to come to an agreement where we can
say to the people we made reasonable protection
for the developer and then we're going to sell it
and try to get out of it, but right now there are
some things that need to be -- some fine tuning
of that. The remedy section is one.
I'm not necessarily opposed to the
very limited approach that Rusty has proposed
where you actually specify a handful of
provisions that you're going to enforce in the
remedy provision. Conceptually that might be
okay, but I don't know that we've gotten, in fact
I know that we don't have a complete list of all
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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the provisions that you really I believe have to
have in the remedy provision.
MAYOR VORESS: Can I suggest this
then, Jay, from a business point of view that we
ask Rusty and Judith to get together at whatever
time frame.
MS. THOMSEN: And I will
accommodate -- if it can't be tomorrow, then it
will have to be by phone, but I will accommodate
my schedule to talk to him when he is available.
MR. HAMBRIC: The other thing,
Arlin, as I mentioned, I am tentatively scheduled
to leave Florida Sunday, but if we get this done,
I mean Monday or Tuesday or Friday, probably
Monday or Tuesday since my family is probably
disappointed that I've taken them away on
vacation, I'm never home when I take them away on
vacation, but that's my problem, not yours.
Probably Monday, can come back over Tuesday and
maybe if we got to the point of signing documents
we can do so.
I think we've met the spirit and
we've got some parameters to work within. Again,
it's tough for me to sit here and we laughed
about this thirty -page document and say after
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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four hours of discussion tonight, I can buy it
the way it's written.
MAYOR VORESS: Let me ask the
Commission, is the Commission prepared to let
them get together and get a piece of paper that
we'll look at?
MR. AUGENSTEIN: There's no
alternative at the moment.
MAYOR VORESS: All right.
MR. RAND: The proposal that we
made, Mr. Hambric, was that we agreed to the cash
settlement that you requested on the strict
condition that the settlement stipulation be in
accordance with that prepared by Mr. Roberts.
Now, if you don't agree with the terms of that
settlement stipulation, then we don't have a deal
so we'll just leave it -- we'll withdraw it until
such time as you come back to us and tell us
whether you are prepared to accept that
condition, but that is a strict condition and is
a deal breaker.
MR. HAMBRIC: We may have a deal
breaker. There may be paragraphs in there that I
can't live with, but, again --
MR. RAND: You can come back to us,
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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but I want you to know that the proposal is
contingent upon your acceptance of the settlement
stipulation as prepared by Mr. Roberts. We're
not in a position to jeopardize an additional
risk for the residents of this town which the
remedy provision of your agreement in our opinion
makes reference to. And I think it's an open-
ended liability that we're not prepared to accept
and endanger the residents of this town. So I
must repeat that the offer is as I have stated.
If it changes, then we have to renegotiate.
MR. HAMBRIC: Again, I understand
your position. Please understand mine.
MR. RAND: I do indeed.
MR. HAMBRIC: That you're asking me
to approve a document, I'm not queering the
numbers or queering the deal, but I have to have
time to reflect because I too can't make
commitments until I'm comfortable.
MAYOR VORESS: All right. So we'll
leave it that Rusty will get together with Judith
or Judith with Rusty, however that goes. A piece
of paper, papers will be prepared within the next
few days and you're prepared to have that to --
to discuss that at a meeting with us early next
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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week?
MR. HAMBRIC: Rusty, what's your --
and Judith -- I'm asking Rusty, I haven't asked
Judith, my own counsel, what your all's time
frame is that's possible.
MS. THOMSEN: You know, we can --
there are, as I indicated, and one is the example
regarding the seven acres that was at one point
part of the RPUD. We cannot make or we cannot
sign a document that makes a representation
currently in the agreement, as an example, it
might seem like a minor point but --
MR. HAMBRIC: But your calendar.
MS. THOMSEN: My calendar is, as I
told him, I can accommodate his schedule. But I
guess in terms of where we go from here is what
you're looking for from us anyway how close we
can come -- you want me to get back to you with
absolutely the bare minimum number of changes
that we feel we would have to have.
MR. ROBERTS: No, I think --
MR. RAND: Well, that would be
changes acceptable to us.
MS. THOMSEN: That's what I'm
saying.
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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MR. HAMBRIC: A document for you to
look at again.
MS. THOMSEN: They clearly may not
be acceptable to you.
MAYOR VORESS: The motion I believe
as reiterated by Mr. Rand as I have drafted and
we have made some concessions to you, what I will
do is go back and redraft that and send that to
you. And that's the deal. You can reflect on it
and get back with us and say yea, nay.
MR. HAMBRIC: When do you expect to
get that to us?
MR. ROBERTS: I will probably have
it out to you tomorrow, if not the first thing
the next day.
MR. RAND: Jay, I'd also like to
make one other comment, and I'm sure I speak on
behalf of my fellow commissioners here and Mr.
Roberts and Miss Mariano. I hope there's one
message that you got, and we thank you for coming
here and for your patience in negotiating this
matter, but I hope that you get the impression
that we are genuinely sincere in trying to reach
a settlement. If you don't go away with that
impression, we're damned surprise. But there's
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza International Place Suite 205
319 Clematis Street NationsBank 100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Miami, Florida 33131 Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155 Area Code (305) 525-6723 Area Code (305) 371-2713 Area Code (407) 338-0955
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been some reference made to the fact that this
commission has no intention of settling, and I
hope we put that to bed once and for all because
that's never been the truth. We've always been
willing to settle.
MR. HAMBRIC: I mean that's never
been the position articulated between the Mayor
and I. In several informal discussions we have
both been committed. He's always mentioned the
Commission has been committed. I mean in
adversarial situations sometimes things spin
around, but, like you, I would like to get this
settled. I think we've got something close that
we can get back late in the week, early next week
and maybe sign documents, shake hands and have a
photo opportunity and we'll all go on with our
lives.
MR. RAND: And you buy the
margueritas.
MR. HAMBRIC: I'll be here.
MAYOR VORESS: I'd like to close
this meeting.
MR. ROBERTS: We can close the
executive session.
MAYOR VORESS: We'll close the
MUDRICK,
WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building
319 Clematis Street
Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza
NationsBank
International Place Suite 205
100 S.E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor 2499 Glades Road
West
Code (407) 659-415501
AreaPalm
FAr Area I(3051) 525-67234
Area �Code (3 5) 371-2713 Area Code n(1407)�338-0955
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executive session now and the executive session
is adjourned.
MR. ROBERTS: What time is it?
MAYOR VORESS: It's 10:42.
(Whereupon the meeting was
adjourned.)
M
CERTI FI CATE
THE STATE OF FLORIDA, )
COUNTY OF PALM BEACH. )
I, Barbara Bolton, Registered
Professional Reporter, certify that I was
authorized to and did stenographically report the
foregoing proceedings and that the transcript is
a true record.
Dated this 17th day of April, 1995.
BARBARA BOLTON, RPR
STATE OF FLORIDA
COUNTY OF PALM BEACH
The foregoing certificate was
acknowledged before- his 17th day of April,
1995.
.. ......,.:
Notary Public - State of Florida
My commission expires:
PX
NX-'1A,. 'W0�II"i.,Iyy�ffH
Nt 1rY Public, ulat�a of Florida
' . My C,ornm. Expire,Oct. 4, 1998
-- Ntr, C`,11Q
funded stmt, (o((k-jai ,,kggr »>trY
MUDRICK, WITT, LEVY & CONSOR REPORTING AGENCY,
INC.
5th Floor • Comeau Building
Suite 1515, 1 Financial Plaza
International Place
Suite 205
319 Clematis Street
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401
NationsBank
Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33394
100 S. E. 2nd Street • 23rd Floor
Miami, Florida 33131
2499 Glades Road
Boca Raton, Florida 33431
Area Code (407) 659-4155
Area Code (305) 525-6723
Area Code (305) 371-2713
Area Code (407) 338-0955