2021.04.06_TC_Minutes_Executive Session 1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 1
1 TOWN OF HIGHLAND BEACH
/"\ TOWN COMMISSION EXECUTIVE SESSION MEETING
2 TUESDAY, APRIL 6, 2021
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6 CERTIFIED COPY
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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
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ATTORNEY/CLIENT EXECUTIVE SESSION AGENDA
9 RE : 1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette
CASE NO . 50-2020-CA-13920-XXXX-MB
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14 Highland Beach, Florida
Tuesday, April 6, 2021
15 1 : 00 p . m . - 1 : 30 p . m .
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41,4 Stenographically Reported by
Mary Ann Hengstler, RPR
25 Notary Public, State of Florida
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 2
1 APPEARANCES :
41/ 2 MAYOR DOUGLAS HILLMAN
VICE MAYOR NATASHA MOORE
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CITY COMMISSION :
4 PEGGY GOSSETT-SEIDMAN
EVALYN DAVID
5 JOHN SHOEMAKER
6 MARSHALL LABADIE - TOWN MANAGER
LEONARD RUBIN - TOWN ATTORNEY
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8 MARY HENGSTLER - STENOGRAPHER
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 3
1 The foregoing Attorney-Client Executive
2 Session was held at 3614 South Ocean Boulevard,
3 Highland Beach, Florida, on Tuesday, April 6, 2021 ,
4 starting at 1 : 00 p . m . , with appearances as
5 hereinabove noted, to wit :
6 MAYOR HILLMAN : Okay . It ' s 1 : 00 . Shall we
7 begin . Would you call the meeting to order . Let ' s
8 call the roll, please .
9 TOWN CLERK : Okay . Commissioner Shoemaker .
10 MR . SHOEMAKER : Present .
11 TOWN CLERK : Commissioner David .
12 MS . DAVID : Present .
3 TOWN CLERK : Commissioner Gossett-Seidman .
14 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Present .
15 TOWN CLERK : Mayor Hillman .
16 MAYOR HILLMAN : Present .
17 TOWN CLERK : The Town Attorney Rubin .
18 MR . RUBIN : Here .
19 TOWN CLERK : And the Town Manager Labadie .
20 MR . LABADIE : Present .
21 TOWN CLERK : Thank you .
22 MAYOR HILLMAN : Okay . The Town Commission
23 will now commence an attorney-client session that
4 is estimated to last approximately 30 minutes .
25 Persons in attendance shall be the members of the
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 4
1 Town Commission, Town Manager Labadie, Town
41/ 2 Attorney Rubin and the court reporter .
3 The business request by the Town Attorney for
4 advice from the Town Commission concerning
5 settlement negotiations and strategy related to the
6 litigation expenditure . I will turn it over to
7 Attorney Rubin .
8 MR. RUBIN : Thank you, Mayor . So the case is
9 1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette versus
10 the Town of Highland Beach .
11 I ' ll give you a little chronology . Back in
12 February 2017 the Board approved a 40 , 000-pound
eight post boat lift adjacent to the rear of
14 Mr . Touchette ' s property .
15 Do you all know -- are you all familiar with
16 where the property is and how it ' s all configured?
17 Because I have maps if that helps . Okay . Then, if
18 you ' re aware . I brought just in case .
19 MR . SHOEMAKER: Actually I would like to see
20 a map, only because I have not seen the property .
21 MR . RUBIN : (Handing . )
22 MS . DAVID : If you want to see it , come to my
23 porch .
#*4'24 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : I drove down here in a
25 boat so . . .
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 5
1 MR . RUBIN : Yeah . I figured most of you
2 would be aware .
3 MS . DAVID : I look right down on top of it .
4 MR. RUBIN : So in February ' 17 that was
5 approved . It was eight posts , 40 , 000-pound lift .
6 The boat that Mr . Touchette has indicated he wishes
7 to place on the lift is approximately 48 feet and
8 12 feet in height .
9 So, then, subsequently in October 2017 ,
10 Mr . Touchette came in and requested to add two
11 additional posts . So now we ' re talking about a 10
12 post boat lift at that same location . That was
13 also approved by the Planning Board .
14 So what happens after that is , they begin
15 construction, and all of a sudden these 12-foot
16 pilings appear adjacent to his property . So in
17 March of -- I think May of 2019 the building
18 official issues a Stop Work Order and says , "Hey,
19 wait a second . The diagram that you submitted way
20 back in 2017 when you originally applied for the
21 boat lift only showed these four foot boat lift
22 pilings . And now here you ' re putting in these
23 12-foot pilings . " Now we ' ve now learned that it
24 was just -- it was an error, not on the Town ' s
25 part, it was an error on Mr . Touchette ' s
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 6
1 contractor ' s part . He didn ' t call out the height
41/ 2 of the boat lift piling . So it just showed these
3 4-foot pilings , but those are really the deck
4 pilings . But it just never called out the height
5 of them .
6 So subsequent to that , the property owner
7 comes back before the Planning Board and applies
8 for the 12 feet that he ' s already installed, and
9 I ' m sure you ' ll hear form your constituents they
10 don ' t like looking at those 12-foot pilings . But
11 he comes before the Planning Board in August 2020 ,
12 and the Planning Board says , "No, we ' re not
13 approving that at 12 feet . "
14 But at that meeting, the Planning Board --
15 there was some talk among the Planning Board
16 members that perhaps a lower height might be
17 considered . So it ' s sort of left at that .
18 So in November 2020 they come back before the
19 Planning Board, and this time they want pilings
20 that are seven feet in height . So at the hearing
21 our own expert -- we had an expert , the Town
22 retained an expert to look at it -- and essentially
23 what he says , which makes sense, is that , you know,
)4 four foot was unreasonable . It ' s just not
25 technically feasible . 12 feet was too high . And
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 7
1 seven feet -- six, seven feet is about right .
44/ 2 So what the Planning Board does , is the
3 Planning Board denies it , essentially not because
4 they feel like the difference between four and
5 seven is all that great , but the rationale at the
6 end of the meeting is that, well , if the Planning
7 Board had known back in February of 2017 that they
8 were really going to be seven feet, not just these
9 four feet , maybe they wouldn ' t have approved it in
10 that location .
11 Because, as you ' re familiar, those of you who
12 are familiar with the property, and as you can see
$011.613 on the map, there ' s two locations where he could
14 have put this lift ; there ' s the one to the rear and
15 then there ' s the one to the west . There ' s that
16 area to the west that he could have placed the boat
17 lift .
18 Now at the hearing Mr . Touchette claimed that
19 the reason he didn ' t put it there is because his
20 daughter has some 70-foot boat that they ' re going
21 to moor there . And so he wanted to, you know, put
22 the boat lift here to allow the boat there, because
23 if the boat was behind the house -- and I ' m not
( 4 sure it would fit behind the house -- But , I mean,
25 that was his explanation for it .
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 8
1 (Thereupon, Vice Mayor Moore entered the meeting . )
OFIS
2 Going back to what the code standards are .
3 So the code standards basically say a mooring
4 facility has to be in a canal that ' s 80 feet wide .
5 And the criteria that you ' re talking about that
6 should have been considered back in 2017 at the
7 time of original approval is that the lift will not
8 create a hazardous interference with navigation, it
9 won ' t endanger life or property or deny the public
10 reasonable visual access to the public waterways .
11 So at the hearing what the applicant , what
12 Mr . Touchette ' s legal counsel argued, is , "Look, it
13 was approved twice by the Town at that location .
14 So we really shouldn ' t be talking about the
15 navigation or talking about the visual access ,
16 because it ' s really the same . Because once the
17 boat ' s on the lift , it ' s really the boat that ' s
18 obstructing the visual access more than the pilings
19 themselves . So that was the argument .
20 So we ' re now kind of in this position where
21 they have now filed a petition for Writ of
22 Certiorari challenging the Planning Board' s denial .
23 Understandably what their argument is is there ' s
no -- you know, even the Town ' s own expert said we
25 need at least seven feet . Which, you know, I
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 9
1 understand where they ' re coming from .
2 And the reason why I wanted to have this
3 session and didn ' t just answer the petition is
4 because a court might -- and I was talking about
5 this with Marshall . There ' s a good chance we could
6 lose this because of the way that the expert
7 testimony, it was our expert who said you need
8 seven feet . The only way that we can really
9 prevail, and I ' ve been thinking about this for
10 weeks , days and weeks , is to show, "Well, because
11 it was your mistake back in 2017 when you submitted
12 the plans , you can ' t rely on that approval . So you
3 need to go through the process again . " I ' m not
14 sure -- I mean, I ' m still looking -- I found a
15 little bit of support for that . It ' s kind of a
16 tough argument to make . But what I wanted the
17 Commission to know is , if I was a betting man right
18 now, I think we might lose this . But I understand
19 that sometimes it ' s better to just let these things
20 play out in the legal proceedings .
21 But I just wanted to give The Commission an
22 opportunity that if the Commission was okay with
23 the seven feet , or something around seven feet , we
e4 could settle it , end any additional expenditures
25 and sort of put a close to it .
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 10
1 So I just wanted to get your collective input
2 on what the Commission thought was best for the
3 Town .
4 MAYOR HILLMAN : Have they proposed a seven
5 foot settlement?
6 MR . RUBIN : Well , seven feet is what they
7 applied for . So I ' m sure they would settle at
8 seven because that ' s the best they can get at this
9 point . So even if the court decides in their
10 favor, all they get is seven . So I ' m sure they
11 would settle at seven . I ' m not sure they would
12 settle less than seven, because I ' m not sure that
r4N13 it will work with the lift as they have it
14 proposed .
15 I was looking back through the transcript of
16 Mr . Nutter, who ' s their expert , their engineer,
17 marine engineer . He did say six to seven . But ,
18 you know, we ' re talking inches here now between six
19 and seven . So I believe they would settle at seven
20 because that ' s what they applied for .
21 MAYOR HILLMAN : Okay . Thank you for the
22 background .
23 MR. RUBIN : You ' re welcome .
MAYOR HILLMAN : I ' d like to start with Evalyn
25 for two reasons ; one , you live there and; second,
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 11
1 you ' re closest to the people that live there . So
41/ 2 let ' s start with you .
3 MS . DAVID : Well , the people who live there
4 aren ' t going to be happy with seven feet . Whether
5 that ' s reasonable or not , I ' m not prepared to say
6 at this point . But I do know they will not be
7 happy with that . They don ' t want to look at the
8 hull of a 48-foot boat . Looking at a 48-foot boat
9 itself is fine , it ' s on a marina . But looking at
10 the hull is something completely different . And if
11 you ' re talking about something that ' s going to be
12 12 feet in the air, it means all the way up to the
13 second floor you ' re not going to be able to see
14 beyond this boat . It ' s going to take up everything
15 in front of you .
16 MAYOR HILLMAN : Well , all you ' re going to be
17 seeing, or not seeing is the house behind it . So
18 whether it ' s seven or four, it ' s three less feet of
19 house that you ' re going to see that ' s a distance
20 behind it .
21 MS . DAVID : Yeah . Understood . But
22 superstructures on boats are nice , hulls are not .
23 MAYOR HILLMAN : Agreed . Okay . Pass it down .
'4111166`24 MR . SHOEMAKER: Okay . I ' ve got several
25 questions . And I ' m new at this . I haven ' t seen
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 12
1 this before . Other than how it was prepared .
2 First thing, the Planning Board . It would
3 seem to me that the Planning Board would normally
4 check, on rails , if there were no height numbers ,
5 and they didn ' t . Is that right?
6 MR . RUBIN : Yes . Somebody should have picked
7 that up . Again, I don ' t know why it wasn ' t picked
8 up, the height of the boat lift pilings not being
9 called out on the plans . It should have been
10 picked up by staff at the time and it should have
11 been picked up by the Board when they were
12 reviewing the plans .
13 MR . SHOEMAKER : So legally --
14 MR . RUBIN : But it wasn ' t .
15 MR . SHOEMAKER : -- it can be argued that both
16 sides were wrong . That ' s an issue right there .
17 MR . RUBIN : And, interestingly enough, in
18 their brief, in their petition, they ' re blaming the
19 Town . Well , the Town -- it ' s ridiculous , because
20 it can ' t be four feet . But we do have at the
21 hearing, Mr . Nutter did testify at the most recent
22 Planning Board hearing, and he said, " It was my
23 mistake, I messed up . "
'164\24 MR. SHOEMAKER : Good .
25 MR. RUBIN : So that is helpful for us . So
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 13
1 that ' s sort of what I was , like, getting to . Our
41/ 2 only argument has to be that we relied on their --
3 they misrepresented to us , then we relied on their
4 misrepresentation . So the approval shouldn ' t
5 stand . Because if the -- if the approvals from
6 2017 stand, we have a really hard time saying he
7 can ' t have seven feet . The only way we can attack
8 it is to attack those approvals way back in ' 17 and
9 say, "We didn ' t realize until much later that it
10 was way taller than had been depicted on the
11 plans . "
12 MR. SHOEMAKER : Okay . So on this map, the
13 west end, how wide is that?
14 MR . RUBIN : Where the boat lift is?
15 MR . SHOEMAKER : Where the boat -- is that
16 where it is right now?
17 MR . RUBIN : It ' s right at the rear of the
18 property . It ' s about 50 something feet over there ,
19 I believe . I measured it the other day . You know,
20 it ' s never that accurate . I was measuring on PAPA .
21 MAYOR HILLMAN : Let me jump in, John . It ' s
22 where your thumb is .
23 MR. SHOEMAKER: It ' s where my thumb is?
r1
24 MAYOR HILLMAN : Yeah . No, go across .
25 MR . SHOEMAKER : The property is this red . So
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1 this is the property line here --
f
2 MAYOR HILLMAN : Where your pen is now is
3 where those pilings are .
4 MR . SHOEMAKER: Right . And so what I ' m
5 trying to understand is how wide -- if it ' s 50 feet
6 wide for a 48 foot boat , you got one foot on either
7 end?
8 MAYOR HILLMAN : It ' s wide enough to
9 accommodate the boat .
10 MR . RUBIN : Yeah . It ' s wide enough to
11 accommodate that boat .
12 MR. SHOEMAKER: And this is where he wants to
13 put the boat versus the rear?
14 MAYOR HILLMAN : That ' s correct .
15 MS . DAVID : Right .
16 MR . RUBIN : Right .
17 MR. SHOEMAKER : And why wouldn ' t he put it
18 there?
19 MR . RUBIN : Well , as I said, his
20 explanation is --
21 MR . SHOEMAKER : Because his daughter?
22 MR . RUBIN : I don ' t know why, but his
23 explanation at the hearing was his daughter, or
4 somebody, has a larger boat , and that when they
25 visit they want to moor on the side where it kind
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 15
1 of cuts back in .
2 MR . SHOEMAKER: Oh, on the side would be here
3 you ' re saying?
4 MR. RUBIN : Yes . Correct .
5 MR. SHOEMAKER : I see . So, you know,
6 honestly, having been in this canal , having a
7 48-foot boat right there with these other boats ,
8 and they ' re big, that ' s kind of an interference
9 with the travel . I mean, you ' ve got to be very
10 sharp in your maneuvering of the boat to get it
11 past , if boats are in these slots and he ' s there .
12 MAYOR HILLMAN : Yes .
13 MR. SHOEMAKER: Whether it ' s up or not --
14 MAYOR HILLMAN : It ' s not part of this issue,
15 though .
16 MR . SHOEMAKER: I know . But , I mean, it is
17 an issue in terms of just traffic, which I
18 understand, that ' s an extraneous point .
19 MR . RUBIN : If it had been challenged back in
20 2017 on that hazard, the navigation issue, I think
21 it was a pretty easy argument to make . Because
22 you ' re right , to navigate around that , especially
23 to the, you know, the peoples whose homes are to
/M4 the east of there , it is tough to get around there .
25 It gets tight .
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 16
1 MR . SHOEMAKER : It ' s brutal .
Oft
MR . RUBIN : And that would have been a really
3 great argument to have raised back in 2017 , which
4 nobody raised .
5 MR . SHOEMAKER : This is , again, another issue
6 for the Planning Board, because I ' ve got to tell
7 you, if there ' s any wind coming in with a big
8 boat --
9 MAYOR HILLMAN : It ' s a moot point now .
10 MR. SHOEMAKER : You ' re saying it is
11 absolutely a moot point?
12 MR . RUBIN : Well, what I ' m saying is , it ' s
#111413 likely a moot point . But our only angle at this
14 point is to attack -- that we relied on their
15 mistake so they have no entitlement . And I don ' t
16 know how it ' s going to fly . I ' m trying to be
17 creative here . I 'm trying to think a little
18 outside the box . Because we had -- we had got into
19 it , in all honesty, myself included, saying, well ,
20 really all we ' re talking about is a difference
21 between four and seven . Or four and twelve the
22 first time, then four and seven the second time .
23 So we really shouldn ' t be looking at the other
4 things . But , you know, then the Board denied it
25 because they felt like maybe they would not have
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 17
1 approved it had they known the true height . So
#111
2 that ' s sort of what we have to now, take that as a
3 springboard to what the Town ' s defense can be .
4 MR . SHOEMAKER : And just , there is going to
5 be an obstruction for anybody trying to get in this
6 small -- right here, this small canal . Okay . It ' s
7 moot . I don ' t want to beat that dead horse . And
8 you ' re saying that there ' s no way that he would
9 compromise and move it to the other side?
10 MR . RUBIN : It ' s something I could -- I could
11 definitely bring up . I don ' t believe so . And I ' ve
12 never had any indication from Mr . Touchette or his
13 attorney that they would . But maybe -- you know, I
14 could approach them with that .
15 MS . DAVID : I have a question . If that boat
16 sticks out too far, could his neighbors , who can ' t
17 get boats by him who -- can they sue him because
18 they don ' t have --
19 MR . RUBIN : Yes .
20 MS . DAVID : -- have quiet enjoyment of their
21 property?
22 MR . RUBIN : Well, that ' s a very
23 interesting --
'' '24 MS . DAVID : They have docks too --
25 MR . RUBIN : That ' s a very interesting point .
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1 MS . DAVID : -- and they should be able to put
2 appropriate-sized boats on their docks , but if they
3 can ' t get by him, that ' s a problem.
4 MR . RUBIN : Okay . So this is -- this is a
5 very interesting point . So I have this issue come
6 up in North Palm Beach all the time . North Palm
7 Beach has many canals . And so we have a regulatory
8 scheme, like the Town of Highland Beach does , about
9 what you can and can ' t do . Well , just because you
10 can do it under the code doesn ' t mean that you ' re
11 not impairing the riparian rights of your
12 neighbors . So that it can become a civil issue .
#1.113 And matter of fact , in the Town of Hypoluxo, we
14 have a case right now where they ' re fighting over
15 that exact same thing . Where one alleges that the
16 other ' s boat lift impedes his riparian rights, and
17 it ' s going to trial . It keeps getting delayed, but
18 will go to trial .
19 MS . DAVID : I mean, because I look right down
20 on that spot . So personally it ' s not blocking my
21 view of anything, quite frankly .
22 MR . RUBIN : Right . Right . It ' s really the
23 neighbors .
*24 MS . DAVID : But when you look down, you get a
25 different perspective . And I ' ve been in boating,
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 19
1 and that ' s an awful narrow area to have to
2 maneuver . I mean, boats don ' t maneuver that easily
3 if it ' s a decent-sized boat . It ' s not driving a
4 car that you can change by inches .
5 MR . RUBIN : Yeah . I mean --
6 MS . DAVID : You need clearance .
7 MR . RUBIN : The problem is like -- really, I
8 don ' t know why that wasn ' t considered when it was
9 approved originally, because no matter what ' s
10 there -- no matter what the size of it , if it ' s in
11 that location, it seems to me you can make an
12 argument it ' s a hazard to navigation . Or an
13 interference with navigation .
14 MS . DAVID : Well, it depends on how far into
15 that boat lift he pulls the boat . Because the
16 front could wind up over the property line onto the
17 next door neighbor ' s .
18 MR . RUBIN : Well , then, that would be a
19 separate -- he can ' t go past the property line
20 extended . So that would become a separate
21 violation . But I see where you ' re going .
22 MR . SHOEMAKER : But have you told him that he
23 could be susceptible to lawsuits because of
4 interference?
25 MAYOR HILLMAN : We ' re getting into other
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1 issues here .
4102 MR . RUBIN : Yeah . I have not advised him of
3 that .
4 MAYOR HILLMAN : Let ' s try to stay focused on
5 the issue .
6 MR . SHOEMAKER : That ' s a problem .
7 MAYOR HILLMAN : Anything else, John?
8 MR . SHOEMAKER : I would -- I guess my last
9 question would be, you know, the expense of a
10 lawsuit on something like this is kind of
11 ridiculous . This should not have happened, in my
12 book . Now that it has , I really think that we
Agift`13 should settle it . And I think seven feet -- I
14 don ' t want to argue -- no matter what, they
15 approved it at four, the boat was going to be there
16 anyway, no matter what . No matter if it
17 interferes . The boat was going to be there at four
18 feet . The Planning Board had no clue with the
19 problem of that boat at four feet .
20 MAYOR HILLMAN : The boat ' s not going to be
21 there at four .
22 MR . RUBIN : Yeah, the pilings are four feet .
23 MS . DAVID : As I understand it, he changed
?4 the size of the boat .
25 MR . SHOEMAKER : Oh, he changed the size of
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1 the boat .
2 MS . DAVID : And that made a difference .
3 MR . RUBIN : I don ' t know . He says he never
4 did, it was always intended to be the same boat ,
5 but I don ' t know .
6 MR. SHOEMAKER: Well, in any event , what
7 we ' re arguing about , are we going, you know, be
8 forced to give him seven? Or if we want we could
9 get four?
10 MR. RUBIN : I mean, four is just not
11 technically feasible .
12 MR. SHOEMAKER : For a 48 foot boat , I
13 wouldn ' t think it would be .
14 MR . RUBIN : Both experts -- well , his expert ,
15 of course, but even our, the Town ' s expert said
16 that ' s just not technically feasible .
17 MR. SHOEMAKER: So my suggestion is , based
18 upon what I ' ve heard so far, and I ' ll listen more ,
19 but it would just seem to me, let ' s compromise at
20 seven .
21 MAYOR HILLMAN : The other piece that ' s
22 missing in this background is the boat that he ' s
23 buying, or plans to purchase, requires more than
z.4 four feet . It has three props . The third prop is
25 lower . So he ' s got to get it further out of the
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 22
1 water, and four feet doesn ' t do it for him .
2 So that ' s why this whole megillah has come
3 about .
4 MR . SHOEMAKER : Very good .
5 MAYOR HILLMAN : Peggy .
6 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Thank you, Mayor . Have
7 we -- first of all , each person who permitted this
8 was a different company, right? The original
9 permit was Safe Build.
10 MR. RUBIN : Yes , I believe so . And then
11 Mr . Massey was here when the Stop Work Order was
12 issued . And then, yeah, so now --
13 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : He issued a Stop Work
14 Order . So we ' ve had three different building
15 people . Is there any capability of presenting that
16 as a problem, that --
17 MR. RUBIN : (Shakes head) .
18 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : No .
19 MR . RUBIN : No .
20 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Okay . Secondly, have
21 we -- when I looked at our ordinances , there are
22 three references right off the bat that the lift
23 may not impede on a neighboring property . And
24 there ' s also a 25-foot setback . This is a
25 single-family home , right? It ' s not -- it ' s not --
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1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 23
1 MR . RUBIN : It ' s a single-family home .
• 2 MS . DAVID : Single-family home .
3 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Have those been -- have
4 we reviewed that?
5 MR . RUBIN : My understanding is that it did
6 comply with all those other requirements . Those
7 were never raised by staff .
8 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Because there ' s no
9 setback either by -- there ' s no setback .
10 MR . RUBIN : There ' s no setback for the -- for
11 the piling, correct . They ' re like right -- those
12 last set of pilings are right on the property line .
OPN
13 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : That ' s right --
14 MR . RUBIN : Which section are you looking at?
15 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : I ' ve looked at these a
16 thousand times .
17 MR . RUBIN : I ' m sure you have . You ' re
18 probably more well versed than I am .
19 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Oh, no, I wouldn ' t .
20 MR. RUBIN : No, no . I mean, it ' s -- I have a
21 lot of different codes .
22 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Well , you have a lot of
23 different towns too . So let me get the initial . . .
Section 3068 , and we ' re all the way down to G ( 1 ) .
25 And on going down . G ( 1 ) , G (2 ) .
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1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 24
1 MR . RUBIN : Right .
Agibk
2 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : There ' s several
3 references . "Lifting devices --
4 MR . RUBIN : Well , that ' s the boat .
5 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : -- will provide
6 adequate protection of neighboring property .
7 There ' s no infringement of standard navigational
8 practices . " I don ' t even know -- I was initially
9 looking just now for if we allow two large boats at
10 a property . I don ' t know if we have that per our
11 codes .
12 But these other codes which I ' ve looked at
13 before do seem to reference that over and over .
14 "Shall not impede on a neighboring property . "
15 MR . RUBIN : Yeah . No, he can ' t be over the
16 line .
17 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : And there ' s no
18 setback -- there ' s no setback here . And so , when
19 these were looked at all three times , it seems to
20 me that our codes were not applied .
21 MR . LABADIE : For the multi-family there ' s a
22 zero setback .
23 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Yes , I vaguely remember
erik‘24 that , Marshall . And we talked about that for the
25 side yards also, that it ' s missing in our code .
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1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 25
1 MR. SHOEMAKER : Doesn ' t he say that he has a
41/ 2 multi-family?
3 MR. RUBIN : Oh, yeah . It was under the
4 zoning district . No, it --
5 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : This is referencing it .
6 MR. RUBIN : Yeah, no, the zoning district
7 is -- I can ' t remember what the zoning district is .
8 RML? I believe that it might be considered -- it ' s
9 not a single-family zoning district , because I
10 think in RML we do allow multi-family, don ' t we? I
11 believe .
12 MR . LABADIE : Yeah .
13 MR . RUBIN : Yeah . So that ' s why it ' s the
14 zero, not the 25-foot . Because they ' re -- you
15 know, an interesting thing about Grand Court, is
16 that was also built as a result of a lawsuit
17 settlement .
18 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Right .
19 MR . RUBIN : So it also doesn ' t comply with a
20 lot of the requirements because it was a
21 settlement . And the settlement agreement dictated
22 the parameters of how those -- like , none of them
23 meet lot coverage . It ' s a little bit of a mess
ems, back there because of how that was approved .
25 Complete aside .
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1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 26
1 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : All right . I
41/ 2 understand . I ' m just wondering if there were
3 any -- any point of law we could --
4 MR . RUBIN : Right . No, I understand .
5 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : So those are my two
6 questions . My initial feeling is to stay out of
7 court . If we can work up a settlement , I would be
8 more pro that to save the Town money and time .
9 MR . SHOEMAKER: But the only settlement is
10 seven feet .
11 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Right .
12 MR . RUBIN : Well , that ' s -- I mean, seven
b41.1413 feet ' s a no brainer, because that ' s all he can get .
14 Now whether we could try to convince him to move it
15 to the other side, I don ' t think so, because
16 they ' ve already put the pilings in . You ' re talking
17 a lot money here . So I don ' t think they ' ll ever
18 bite on that . I think they think their chances are
19 pretty good . And, you know, I wish I didn ' t think
20 they were as good as , you know, they might be . But
21 I think, you know, just based on the evidence, we
22 kind of have to argue , no, it ' s not -- you know,
23 you have to go back to the original approval, " It
emk24 was your mistake, we relied on your mistake, so you
25 shouldn ' t be entitled to rely on" -- we ' d have to
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1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 27
1 look at all the factors , which is what the Board
2 said . "Well , we want to look at all the factors . "
3 Which, then, gets into the navigation issue .
4 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Are there any other
5 pending potential lawsuits regarding our codes?
6 Because I ' m always concerned, while we ' re building
7 a decent building department , that we would have
8 some outstanding lawsuits waiting to be filed .
9 MR . RUBIN : Not that I ' m aware of .
10 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Because they ' re not
11 followed for years . So there ' s nothing else behind
12 this , so this would set a precedence?
13 MR. RUBIN : I don ' t believe it would set a
14 precedent . I ' m not aware of any others but . . .
15 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Marshall , do you know
16 of any other potential suits?
17 MR . LABADIE : No . They ' re the only ones that
18 have filed anything . We always get failed threats
19 from time to time when somebody ' s told they can ' t
20 have what they want .
21 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Right .
22 MR . LABADIE : But , otherwise, we ' ve not been
23 to court -- or suit filed yet outside of this one .
�?4 MS . DAVID : I have another question .
25 MR . RUBIN : Yes , ma ' am.
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1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 28
1 MS . DAVID : Could the neighbors who could
41/ 2 obviously sue him civilly, could they sue us for
3 allowing him to put up something that impeded their
4 rights?
5 MR . RUBIN : Generally, no . Because that ' s
6 something -- you know, interpreting codes and that ,
7 those kind of things are generally immune from
8 suit . It ' s a sovereign immunity issue . So
9 generally, no . But they could sue him if they
10 wished .
11 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : May I make a comment on
12 that?
13 MR . RUBIN : Yeah, sure .
14 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Evalyn, just recently
15 on this trip I was on, it was brought up many, many
16 municipalities are acquiring a special kind of
17 insurance which provides coverage for individuals
18 serving in a public official capacity . Because as
19 it stands now, any of the five of us could be sued
20 as an individual person for a decision we make .
21 And I don ' t believe our town carries that
22 insurance . And I ' m certainly not afraid of being
23 sued . I ' m just saying, this might be something we
want to look at . Many towns are looking into it ,
25 small and large .
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1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 29
1 MAYOR HILLMAN : Okay .
2 MS . DAVID : I would guess that would be
3 similar to officer and director insurance .
4 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Yes , ma ' am .
5 MR . RUBIN : We do have to stay on -- only
6 very limited things we can talk about .
7 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : So as for this , unless
8 my colleagues , you know, sway another way, I would
9 be interested in settling . But I ' m not totally
10 opposed to pursuing it in order to appear as we ' re
11 staying firm on our codes . That ' s my feeling .
12 Thanks .
r13 MAYOR HILLMAN : Natasha .
14 VICE MAYOR MOORE : Yeah, I agree . I would
15 settle and say our intent is to be firm on our code
16 so that other people don ' t think that they can do
17 the same thing . But , yeah, I think it ' s important
18 to stay out of court and settle .
19 MAYOR HILLMAN : I agree . Our attorney feels
20 we have less than a 50-shot -- 50/50-shot of
21 winning this thing . I know many of your neighbors
22 are not going to be happy . But the combination of
23 expending funds to try to win something that we
24 think is an uphill battle doesn ' t make a lot of
25 sense to me . Obviously I ' d ask you to try to
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1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 30
1 negotiate less than seven, but I think we should
2 authorize up to seven .
3 MR. RUBIN : We ' ll try . Okay .
4 MAYOR HILLMAN : Okay .
5 MR . SHOEMAKER : And, actually, the better
6 position would be to have him put the boat around
7 the other side .
8 MR. RUBIN : I agree, but he ' s not going to do
9 that because --
10 MAYOR HILLMAN : I sat through, listened to
11 many discussions in the Planning Board meeting
12 trying to convince him to move to the other side,
ORN
13 and they made no progress on that .
14 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Mayor, is there a
15 chance that moving a 70-foot boat into there,
16 whether it ' s part-time or not , might not even be
17 commonsense because of the tides and -- I mean, I
18 was in there in a 28-foot boat and we could hardly
19 get out , on a windy day . Is there a possibility
20 that that may not transpire anyway?
21 MAYOR HILLMAN : You know, there is . He
22 hasn ' t purchased that boat yet .
23 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Okay .
eliN24 MAYOR HILLMAN : And during the meetings that
25 I listened to , he was going to buy it , then the
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1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 31
1 price went up so he didn ' t buy it . So, I mean, I ' m
2 not going to say the guy ' s a nut . But, you know,
3 he doesn ' t seem to have it all there .
4 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Okay .
5 MAYOR HILLMAN : I don ' t know . I will tell
6 you, though, I mean, I used to be a boater, and
7 with bow thrusters today and stern thrusters , the
8 bigger the boat the easier it is to navigate it .
9 So getting boats in and out of there, the smaller
10 boats are going to have greater difficulty than the
11 larger boats . They ' re more affected by the wind
12 and they don ' t have all the navigation equipment .
/"4
13 But it is what it is . So I would recommend that we
14 authorize --
15 MR. RUBIN : All right . So I ' ll contact the
16 counsel for Mr . Touchette and we ' ll see what we can
17 hammer out . Eventually when it -- if we come to
18 terms , or whatever the terms might be, it ' ll have
19 to come and be approved at a public meeting . But
20 there ' s nothing for you all to do now if that ' s
21 your direction to me, is to try to settle , then
22 I ' ll do my best .
23 MAYOR HILLMAN : Okay . We ' re in agreement .
24 MR . RUBIN : Thank you so much .
25 MAYOR HILLMAN : Okay . Thank you . I have to
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1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 32
1 read this . Reopen public meeting for termination
2 of the attorney-client session .
3 MR . RUBIN : Oh, yeah . If you can open the
4 door, Marshall .
5 MAYOR HILLMAN : And now our Town Commission
6 meeting, public meeting is adjourned .
7 MR . RUBIN : Yeah . We have to actually
8 adjourn it publicly . So if you could open the
9 door . This seems ridiculous , but if you -- you
10 have to announce the termination when it ' s public
11 again .
12 MR . LABADIE : Hear ye, hear ye -- I ' m sorry .
13 MR. RUBIN : Okay . Now we ' re public . It ' s
14 terminated. Thank you so much .
15 MAYOR HILLMAN : Okay . Now adjourn the
16 meeting . Thank you all .
17 MR. RUBIN : Thank you, Mayor . Thank you
18 Commission .
19 (Proceedings were concluded at 1 : 30 p . m. )
20
21
22
23
?4
25
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1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 33
1 CERTIFICATE
lam+
2
3 THE STATE OF FLORIDA
4 COUNTY OF PALM BEACH
5 I , Mary Ann Hengstler, Registered Professional
6 Reporter, do hereby certify that I was authorized to
7 and did report the foregoing proceedings at the time
8 and place herein stated, and that the foregoing is a
9 true and correct transcription of my stenotype notes
10 taken during said proceedings .
11
12 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand
‘3 this 19th day of April , 2021 .
14
15
16
17
180011410/4
19
20 MARY ANN HENGSTLER
Registered Professional Reporter
21
22
23
2 4
25
Florida Court Reporting
r., .ten „flflfl
1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 1
WORD INDEX < 8 > 19:9 20:15 25:24 best 10:2, 8 31:22
80 8:4 31:19 better 9:19 30:5
41, 1 > approving 6:13 betting 9:17
1:00 1:15 3:4, 6 < A > approximately 3:24 beyond 11:14
1:30 1:15 32:19 able 11:13 18:1 5:7 big 15:8 16:7
10 5:11 absolutely 16:11 APRIL 1:2, 14 3:3 bigger 31:8
1006 1:9 4:9 access 8:10, 15, 18 33:13 bit 9:15 25:23
12 5:8 6:8, 13,25 accommodate 14:9, 11 area 7:16 19:1 bite 26:18
11:12 accurate 13:20 argue 20:14 26:22 blaming 12:18
12-foot 5:15,23 6:10 acquiring 28:16 argued 8:12 12:15 blocking 18:20
17 5:4 13:8 add 5:10 arguing 21:7 Board 4:12 5:13
19th 33:13 additional 5:11 9:24 argument 8:19,23 6:7, 11, 12, 14, 15, 19
adequate 24:6 9:16 13:2 15:21 7:2,3, 7 12:2,3, 11,
< 2 > adjacent 4:13 5:16 16:3 19:12 22 16:6,24 20:18
2017 4:12 5:9,20 adjourn 32:8, 15 aside 25:25 27:1 30:11
7:7 8:6 9:11 13:6 adjourned 32:6 attack 13:7,8 16:14 Board's 8:22
15:20 16:3 advice 4:4 attendance 3:25 boat 4:13,25 5:6, 12,
2019 5:17 advised 20:2 ATTORNEY 2:6 21 6:2 7:16,20,22,
2020 6:11, 18 afraid 28:22 3:17 4:2,3, 7 17:13 23 8:17 11:8, 14
2021 1:2, 14 3:3 AGENDA 1:8 29:19 12:8 13:14, 15 14:6,
33:13 agree 29:14, 19 30:8 9, 11, 13,24 15:7, 10
25-foot 22:24 25:14 Agreed 11:23 ATTORNEY/CLIENT 16:8 17:15 18:16
28-foot 30:18 agreement 25:21 1:8 19:3, 15 20:15, 17, 19,
31:23 Attorney-Client 3:1, 24 21:1,4, 12,22
3 > air 11:12 23 32:2 24:4 30:6, 15, 18,22
30 3:24 alleges 18:15 August 6:11 31:8
3068 23:24 allow 7:22 24:9 authorize 30:2 31:14 boater 31:6
3614 3:2 25:10 authorized 33:6 boating 18:25
allowing 28:3 aware 4:18 5:2 boats 11:22 15:7, 11
< 4 > angle 16:13 27:9, 14 17:17 18:2 19:2
40,000-pound 4:12 Ann 1:24 33:5,20 awful 19:1 24:9 31:9, 10, 11
5:5 announce 32:10 boat's 8:17 20:20
48 5:7 14:6 21:12 answer 9:3 < B > book 20:12
48-foot 11:8 15:7 anybody 17:5 Back 4:11 5:20 6:7, Boulevard 3:2
4-foot 6:3 anyway 20:16 30:20 18 7:7 8:2, 6 9:11 bow 31:7
appear 5:16 29:10 10:15 13:8 15:1, 19 box 16:18
< 5 > APPEARANCES 2:1 16:3 25:24 26:23 brainer 26:13
50 13:18 14:5 3:4 background 10:22 brief 12:18
50/50-shot 29:20 applicant 8:11 21:22 bring 17:11
50-2020-CA-13920- applied 5:20 10:7, based 21:17 26:21 brought 4:18 28:15
XXXX-MB 1:9 20 24:20 basically 8:3 brutal 16:1
50-shot 29:20 applies 6:7 bat 22:22 Build 22:9
approach 17:14 battle 29:24 building 5:17 22:14
< 6 > appropriate-sized BEACH 1:1, 14 3:3 27:6, 7
6 1:2, 14 3:3 18:2 4:10 18:6, 7,8 33:4 built 25:16
approval 8:7 9:12 beat 17:7 business 4:3
(l""< 7 > 13:4 26:23 believe 10:19 13:19 buy 30:25 31:1
70-foot 7:20 30:15 approvals 13:5, 8 17:11 22:10 25:8, 11 buying 21:23
approved 4:12 5:5, 27:13 28:21
13 7:9 8:13 17:1
Florida Court Reporting
cc1 _coo_n000
1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 2
< C > Commissioner 3:9, decides 10:9 essentially 6:22 7:3
call 7, 8 6:1 11, 13 decision 28:20 estimated 3:24
*called 6:4 12:9 commonsense 30:17 deck 6:3 EVALYN 2:4 10:24
canal 8:4 15:6 17:6 company 22:8 defense 17:3 28:14
canals 18:7 Complete 25:25 definitely 17:11 event 21:6
capability 22:15 completely 11:10 delayed 18:17 Eventually 31:17
capacity 28:18 comply 23:6 25:19 denial 8:22 evidence 26:21
car 19:4 compromise 17:9 denied 16:24 exact 18:15
carries 28:21 21:19 denies 7:3 EXECUTIVE 1:1, 8
CASE 1:9 4:8, 18 concerned 27:6 deny 8:9 3:1
18:14 concerning 4:4 department 27:7 expending 29:23
certainly 28:22 concluded 32:19 depends 19:14 expenditure 4:6
certify 33:6 configured 4:16 depicted 13:10 expenditures 9:24
Certiorari 8:22 considered 6:17 8:6 devices 24:3 expense 20:9
challenged 15:19 19:8 25:8 diagram 5:19 expert 6:21,22 8:24
challenging 8:22 constituents 6:9 dictated 25:21 9:6, 7 10:16 21:14,
chance 9:5 30:15 construction 5:15 difference 7:4 16:20 15
chances 26:18 contact 31:15 21:2 experts 21:14
change 19:4 contractor's 6:1 different 11:10 explanation 7:25
changed 20:23,25 convince 26:14 30:12 18:25 22:8, 14 23:21, 14:20,23
check 12:4 correct 14:14 15:4 23 extended 19:20
chronology 4:11 23:11 33:9 difficulty 31:10 extraneous 15:18
CITY 2:2 counsel 8:12 31:16 direction 31:21
civil 18:12 COUNTY 33:4 director 29:3 < F >
.ivilly
28:2 course 21:15 discussions 30:11 facility 8:4
laimed 7:18 Court 1:9 4:2, 9 9:4 distance 11:19 fact 18:13
clearance 19:6 10:9 25:15 26:7 district 25:4, 6, 7, 9 factors 27:1, 2
CLERK 3:9, 11, 13, 27:23 29:18 docks 17:24 18:2 failed 27:18
15, 17, 19,21 coverage 25:23 28:17 door 19:17 32:4, 9 familiar 4:15 7:11,
close 9:25 create 8:8 DOUGLAS 2:2 12
closest 11:1 creative 16:17 driving 19:3 far 17:16 19:14
clue 20:18 criteria 8:5 drove 4:24 21:18
code 8:2,3 18:10 cuts 15:1 favor 10:10
24:25 29:15 < E > feasible 6:25 21:11,
codes 23:21 24:11, < D > easier 31:8 16
12,20 27:5 28:6 daughter 7:20 14:21, easily 19:2 February 4:12 5:4
29:11 23 east 15:24 7:7
colleagues 29:8 DAVID 2:4 3:11, 12 easy 15:21 feel 7:4
collective 10:1 4:22 5:3 11:3,21 eight 4:13 5:5 feeling 26:6 29:11
combination 29:22 14:15 17:15,20,24 either 14:6 23:9 feels 29:19
come 4:22 6:18 18:1, 19,24 19:6, 14 endanger 8:9 feet 5:7,8 6:8, 13, 20,
18:5 22:2 31:17, 19 20:23 21:2 23:2 engineer 10:16, 17 25 7:1, 8, 9 8:4,25
comes 6:7, 11 27:24 28:1 29:2 enjoyment 17:20 9:8,23 10:6 11:4, 12,
coming 9:1 16:7 day 13:19 30:19 entered 8:1 18 12:20 13:7, 18
commence 3:23 33:13 entitled 26:25 14:5 20:13, 18, 19,22
comment 28:11 days 9:10 entitlement 16:15 21:24 22:1 26:10
COMMISSION 1:1 dead 17:7 equipment 31:12 feet's 26:13
2:2 3:22 4:1,4 9:17, decent 27:7 error 5:24,25 felt 16:25
21,22 10:2 32:5, 18 decent-sized 19:3 especially 15:22 fighting 18:14
figured 5:1
Florida Court Reporting
re, cnn nnnn
1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 3
filed 8:21 27:8, 18, 22 24:2,5, 17,23 homes 15:23 JOHN 2:5 13:21
23 25:5, 18 26:1,5, 11 honestly 15:6 20:7
Ofine 11:9 27:4, 10, 15,21 28:11, honesty 16:19 jump 13:21
firm 29:11, 15 14 29:4, 7 30:14,23 horse 17:7
First 12:2 16:22 31:4 house 7:23,24 11:17, < K >
22:7 Grand 1:9 4:9 19 keeps 18:17
fit 7:24 25:15 hull 11:8, 10 kind 8:20 9:15
five 28:19 great 7:5 16:3 hulls 11:22 14:25 15:8 20:10
floor 11:13 greater 31:10 Hypoluxo 18:13 26:22 28:7, 16
Florida 1:14,25 3:3 guess 20:8 29:2 know 4:15 6:23
33:3 guy's 31:2 < I > 7:21 8:24,25 9:17
fly 16:16 immune 28:7 10:18 11:6 12:7
focused 20:4 < H > immunity 28:8 13:19 14:22 15:5, 16,
followed 27:11 hammer 31:17 impairing 18:11 23 16:16,24 17:13
foot 5:21 6:24 10:5 hand 33:12 impede 22:23 24:14 19:8 20:9 21:3,5, 7
14:6 21:12 Handing 4:21 impeded 28:3 24:8, 10 25:15 26:19,
forced 21:8 happened 20:11 impedes 18:16 20,21,22 27:15 28:6
foregoing 3:1 33:7, 8 happens 5:14 important 29:17 29:8,21 30:21 31:2,
form 6:9 happy 11:4, 7 29:22 inches 10:18 19:4 5
found 9:14 hard 13:6 included 16:19 known 7:7 17:1
four 5:21 6:24 7:4, hazard 15:20 19:12 indicated 5:6
9 11:18 12:20 16:21, hazardous 8:8 indication 17:12 < L >
22 20:15, 17, 19,21, head 22:17 individual 28:20 LABADIE 2:6 3:19,
22 21:9, 10,24 22:1 hear 6:9 32:12 individuals 28:17 20 4:1 24:21 25:12
'rankly
18:21 heard 21:18 infringement 24:7 27:17,22 32:12
ront 11:15 19:16 hearing 6:20 7:18 initial 23:23 26:6 large 24:9 28:25
funds 29:23 8:11 12:21,22 14:23 initially 24:8 larger 14:24 31:11
further 21:25 height 5:8 6:1,4, 16, input 10:1 law 26:3
20 12:4, 8 17:1 installed 6:8 lawsuit 20:10 25:16
< G > held 3:2 insurance 28:17,22 lawsuits 19:23 27:5,
G(1 23:24,25 helpful 12:25 29:3 8
G(2 23:25 helps 4:17 intended 21:4 learned 5:23
Generally 28:5, 7, 9 Hengstler 1:24 2:8 intent 29:15 left 6:17
getting 13:1 18:17 33:5,20 interested 29:9 legal 8:12 9:20
19:25 31:9 hereinabove 3:5 interesting 17:23,25 legally 12:13
give 4:11 9:21 21:8 hereunto 33:12 18:5 25:15 LEONARD 2:6
go 9:13 13:24 18:18 Hey 5:18 interestingly 12:17 life 8:9
19:19 26:23 high 6:25 interference 8:8 lift 4:13 5:5, 7, 12,
going 7:8,20 8:2 HIGHLAND 1:1, 14 15:8 19:13,24 21 6:2 7:14, 17,22
11:4, 11, 13, 14, 16, 19 3:3 4:10 18:8 interferes 20:17 8:7, 17 10:13 12:8
16:16 17:4 18:17 HILLMAN 2:2 3:6, interpreting 28:6 13:14 18:16 19:15
19:21 20:15, 17,20 15, 16,22 10:4,21,24 issue 12:16 15:14, 17, 22:22
21:7 23:25 29:22 11:16,23 13:21,24 20 16:5 18:5, 12 Lifting 24:3
30:8,25 31:2, 10 14:2,8, 14 15:12, 14 20:5 27:3 28:8 limited 29:6
good 9:5 12:24 22:4 16:9 19:25 20:4, 7, issued 22:12, 13 line 14:1 19:16, 19
26:19,20 20 21:21 22:5 29:1, issues 5:18 20:1 23:12 24:16
\WOSSETT- 13, 19 30:4, 10,21,24 it'll 31:18 listen 21:18
EIDMAN 2:4 3:13, 31:5,23,25 32:5, 15 listened 30:10,25
14 4:24 22:6, 13, 18, home 22:25 23:1,2 < J > litigation 4:6
20 23:3, 8, 13, 15, 19,
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1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 4
little 4:11 9:15 31:5,23,25 32:5, 15, 19:6 other's 18:16
16:17 25:23 17 negotiate 30:1 outside 16:18 27:23
Olive 10:25 11:1, 3 mean 7:24 9:14 negotiations 4:5 outstanding 27:8
LLC 1:9 4:9 15:9, 16 18:10, 19 neighboring 22:23 owner 6:6
location 5:12 7:10 19:2,5 21:10 23:20 24:6, 14
8:13 19:11 26:12 30:17 31:1, 6 neighbors 17:16 < P >
locations 7:13 means 11:12 18:12,23 28:1 29:21 p.m 1:15 3:4 32:19
look 5:3 6:22 8:12 measured 13:19 neighbor's 19:17 Palm 18:6 33:4
11:7 18:19,24 27:1, measuring 13:20 never 6:4 13:20 PAPA 13:20
2 28:24 meet 25:23 17:12 21:3 23:7 parameters 25:22
looked 22:21 23:15 MEETING 1:1 3:7 new 11:25 part 5:25 6:1 15:14
24:12, 19 6:14 7:6 8:1 30:11 nice 11:22 part-time 30:16
looking 6:10 9:14 31:19 32:1, 6, 16 normally 12:3 Pass 11:23
10:15 11:8, 9 16:23 meetings 30:24 North 18:6 PEGGY 2:4 22:5
23:14 24:9 28:24 megillah 22:2 Notary 1:25 pen 14:2
lose 9:6, 18 members 3:25 6:16 noted 3:5 pending 27:5
lot 23:21,22 25:20, mess 25:23 notes 33:9 people 11:1,3 22:15
23 26:17 29:24 messed 12:23 November 6:18 29:16
lower 6:16 21:25 minutes 3:24 numbers 12:4 peoples 15:23
misrepresentation nut 31:2 permit 22:9
< M > 13:4 Nutter 10:16 12:21 permitted 22:7
ma'am 27:25 29:4 misrepresented 13:3 person 22:7 28:20
man 9:17 missing 21:22 24:25 < O > personally 18:20
MANAGER 2:6 mistake 9:11 12:23 obstructing 8:18 Persons 3:25
3:19 4:1 16:15 26:24 obstruction 17:5 perspective 18:25
maneuver 19:2 money 26:8, 17 obviously 28:2 29:25 petition 8:21 9:3
maneuvering 15:10 moor 7:21 14:25 Ocean 3:2 12:18
map 4:20 7:13 MOORE 2:2 8:1 October 5:9 picked 12:6, 7, 10, 11
13:12 29:14 officer 29:3 piece 21:21
maps 4:17 mooring 8:3 official 5:18 28:18 piling 6:2 23:11
March 5:17 moot 16:9, 11, 13 Oh 15:2 20:25 pilings 5:16,22,23
marina 11:9 17:7 23:19 25:3 32:3 6:3,4, 10, 19 8:18
marine 10:17 move 17:9 26:14 Okay 3:6,9,22 4:17 12:8 14:3 20:22
MARSHALL 2:6 30:12 9:22 10:21 11:23,24 23:12 26:16
9:5 24:24 27:15 moving 30:15 13:12 17:6 18:4 place 5:7 33:8
32:4 multi-family 24:21 22:20 29:1 30:3,4, placed 7:16
Mary 1:24 2:8 33:5, 25:2, 10 23 31:4,23,25 32:13, Planning 5:13 6:7,
20 municipalities 28:16 15 11, 12, 14, 15, 19 7:2,
Massey 22:11 once 8:16 3, 6 8:22 12:2,3,22
matter 18:13 19:9, < N > ones 27:17 16:6 20:18 30:11
10 20:14, 16 narrow 19:1 open 32:3, 8 plans 9:12 12:9, 12
MAYOR 2:2 3:6, 15, NATASHA 2:2 opportunity 9:22 13:11 21:23
16,22 4:8 8:1 10:4, 29:13 opposed 29:10 play 9:20
21,24 11:16,23 navigate 15:22 31:8 order 3:7 5:18 please 3:8
13:21,24 14:2, 8, 14 navigation 8:8, 15 22:11, 14 29:10 point 10:9 11:6
15:12, 14 16:9 19:25 15:20 19:12, 13 27:3 ordinances 22:21 15:18 16:9, 11, 13, 14
•20:4, 7,20 21:21 31:12 original 8:7 22:8 17:25 18:5 26:3
22:5, 6 29:1, 13, 14, navigational 24:7 26:23 porch 4:23
19 30:4, 10, 14,21, 24 need 8:25 9:7, 13 originally 5:20 19:9 position 8:20 30:6
Florida Court Reporting
1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 5
possibility 30:19 27:24 ridiculous 12:19 sense 6:23 29:25
post 4:13 5:12 questions 11:25 26:6 20:11 32:9 separate 19:19,20
oposts 5:5, 11 quiet 17:20 right 5:3 7:1 9:17 serving 28:18
potential 27:5, 16 quite 18:21 12:5, 16 13:16, 17 SESSION 1:1, 8 3:2,
practices 24:8 14:4, 15, 16 15:7,22 23 9:3 32:2
precedence 27:12 < R > 17:6 18:14, 19, 22 set 23:12 27:12, 13
precedent 27:14 rails 12:4 22:8,22,25 23:11, 12, 33:12
prepared 11:5 12:1 raised 16:3,4 23:7 13 24:1 25:18 26:1, setback 22:24 23:9,
Present 3:10, 12, 14, rationale 7:5 4, 11 27:21 31:15 10 24:18,22
16,20 read 32:1 rights 18:11, 16 28:4 settle 9:24 10:7, 11,
presenting 22:15 realize 13:9 riparian 18:11, 16 12, 19 20:13 29:15,
pretty 15:21 26:19 really 6:3 7:8 8:14, RML 25:8, 10 18 31:21
prevail 9:9 16, 17 9:8 13:6 16:2, roll 3:8 settlement 4:5 10:5
price 31:1 20,23 18:22 19:7 RPR 1:24 25:17,21 26:7,9
pro 26:8 20:12 RUBIN 2:6 3:17, 18 settling 29:9
probably 23:18 rear 4:13 7:14 4:2, 7, 8,21 5:1,4 seven 6:20 7:1,5, 8
problem 18:3 19:7 13:17 14:13 10:6,23 12:6, 14, 17, 8:25 9:8,23 10:4, 6,
20:6, 19 22:16 reason 7:19 9:2 25 13:14, 17 14:10, 8, 10, 11, 12, 17, 19
PROCEEDINGS 1:2 reasonable 8:10 11:5 16, 19,22 15:4, 19 11:4, 18 13:7 16:21,
9:20 32:19 33:7, 10 reasons 10:25 16:2, 12 17:10, 19,22, 22 20:13 21:8,20
process 9:13 recommend 31:13 25 18:4,22 19:5, 7, 26:10, 12 30:1,2
Professional 33:5,20 red 13:25 18 20:2,22 21:3, 10, Shakes 22:17
progress 30:13 reference 24:13 14 22:10, 17, 19 23:1, sharp 15:10
prop 21:24 references 22:22 5, 10, 14, 17,20 24:1, SHOEMAKER 2:5
roperty 4:14, 16,20 24:3 4, 15 25:3, 6, 13, 19 3:9, 10 4:19 11:24
5:16 6:6 7:12 8:9 referencing 25:5 26:4, 12 27:9, 13,25 12:13, 15,24 13:12,
13:18,25 14:1 17:21 regarding 27:5 28:5, 13 29:5 30:3, 8 15,23,25 14:4, 12, 17,
19:16, 19 22:23 Registered 33:5,20 31:15,24 32:3, 7, 13, 21 15:2,5, 13, 16
23:12 24:6, 10, 14 regulatory 18:7 17 16:1,5, 10 17:4
proposed 10:4, 14 related 4:5 19:22 20:6, 8,25
props 21:24 relied 13:2,3 16:14 < S > 21:6, 12, 17 22:4
protection 24:6 26:24 Safe 22:9 25:1 26:9 30:5
provide 24:5 rely 9:12 26:25 sat 30:10 show 9:10
provides 28:17 remember 24:23 save 26:8 showed 5:21 6:2
Public 1:25 8:9, 10 25:7 saying 13:6 15:3 side 14:25 15:2
28:18 31:19 32:1, 6, Reopen 32:1 16:10, 12, 19 17:8 17:9 24:25 26:15
10, 13 report 33:7 28:23 30:7, 12
publicly 32:8 Reported 1:24 says 5:18 6:12,23 sides 12:16
pulls 19:15 reporter 4:2 33:6,20 21:3 similar 29:3
purchase 21:23 request 4:3 scheme 18:8 single-family 22:25
purchased 30:22 requested 5:10 second 5:19 10:25 23:1,2 25:9
pursuing 29:10 requirements 23:6 11:13 16:22 six 7:1 10:17, 18
put 7:14, 19,21 9:25 25:20 Secondly 22:20 size 19:10 20:24,25
14:13, 17 18:1 26:16 requires 21:23 section 23:14, 24 slots 15:11
28:3 30:6 result 25:16 see 4:19,22 7:12 small 17:6 28:25
putting 5:22 retained 6:22 11:13, 19 15:5 19:21 smaller 31:9
....... reviewed 23:4 31:16 Somebody 12:6
< Q > reviewing 12:12 seeing 11:17 14:24
question 17:15 20:9 Richard 1:9 4:9 seen 4:20 11:25 somebody's 27:19
sorry 32:12
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1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 6
sort 6:17 9:25 13:1 talking 5:11 8:5, 14, TOWN 1:1 2:6 3:9,
17:2 15 9:4 10:18 11:11 11, 13, 15, 17, 19,21, < W >
South 3:2 16:20 26:16 22 4:1,3,4, 10 6:21 wait 5:19
sovereign 28:8 taller 13:10 8:13 10:3 12:19 waiting 27:8
special 28:16 technically 6:25 18:8, 13 26:8 28:21 want 4:22 6:19
spot 18:20 21:11, 16 32:5 11:7 14:25 17:7
springboard 17:3 tell 16:6 31:5 towns 23:23 28:24 20:14 21:8 27:2,20
staff 12:10 23:7 terminated 32:14 Town's 5:24 8:24 28:24
stand 13:5, 6 termination 32:1, 10 17:3 21:15 wanted 7:21 9:2, 16,
standard 24:7 terms 15:17 31:18 traffic 15:17 21 10:1
standards 8:2,3 testify 12:21 TRANSCRIPT 1:2 wants 14:12
stands 28:19 testimony 9:7 10:15 water 22:1
start 10:24 11:2 Thank 3:21 4:8 transcription 33:9 waterways 8:10
starting 3:4 10:21 22:6 31:24,25 transpire 30:20 way 5:19 9:6, 8
State 1:25 33:3 32:14, 16, 17 travel 15:9 11:12 13:7, 8, 10
stated 33:8 Thanks 29:12 trial 18:17, 18 17:8 23:24 29:8
stay 20:4 26:6 29:5, thing 12:2 18:15 trip 28:15 weeks 9:10
18 25:15 29:17,21 true 17:1 33:9 welcome 10:23
staying 29:11 things 9:19 16:24 try 20:4 26:14 well 7:6 9:10 10:6
STENOGRAPHER 28:7 29:6 29:23,25 30:3 31:21 11:3, 16 12:19 14:19
2:8 think 5:17 9:18 trying 14:5 16:16, 16:12, 19 17:22 18:9
Stenographically 1:24 15:20 16:17 20:12, 17 17:5 30:12 19:14, 18 21:6, 14
stenotype 33:9 13 21:13 25:10 TUESDAY 1:2, 14 23:18,22 24:4 26:12
stern 31:7 26:15, 17, 18, 19,21 3:3 27:2
ticks 17:16 29:16, 17,24 30:1 turn 4:6 went 31:1
Stop 5:18 22:11, 13 thinking 9:9 twelve 16:21 we're 5:11 6:12
strategy 4:5 third 21:24 twice 8:13 8:20 10:18 16:20
submitted 5:19 9:11 thought 10:2 two 5:10 7:13 10:25 19:25 21:7 23:24
subsequent 6:6 thousand 23:16 24:9 26:5 27:6 29:10 31:23
subsequently 5:9 threats 27:18 32:13
sudden 5:15 three 11:18 21:24 < U > west 7:15, 16 13:13
sue 17:17 28:2, 9 22:14, 22 24:19 understand 9:1, 18 we've 5:23 22:14
sued 28:19,23 thrusters 31:7 14:5 15:18 20:23 27:22
suggestion 21:17 thumb 13:22,23 26:2,4 WHEREOF 33:12
suit 27:23 28:8 tides 30:17 Understandably 8:23 wide 8:4 13:13 14:5,
suits 27:16 tight 15:25 understanding 23:5 6,8, 10
superstructures 11:22 time 6:19 8:7 12:10 Understood 11:21 win 29:23
support 9:15 13:6 16:22 18:6 unreasonable 6:24 wind 16:7 19:16
sure 6:9 7:24 9:14 26:8 27:19 33:7 uphill 29:24 31:11
10:7, 10, 11, 12 23:17 times 23:16 24:19 windy 30:19
28:13 today 31:7 < V > winning 29:21
susceptible 19:23 told 19:22 27:19 vaguely 24:23 wish 26:19
sway 29:8 top 5:3 versed 23:18 wished 28:10
totally 29:9 versus 4:9 14:13 wishes 5:6
< T > Touchette 1:9 4:9 VICE 2:2 8:1 29:14 wit 3:5
take 11:14 17:2 5:6, 10 7:18 17:12 view 18:2/ WITNESS 33:12
Waken 33:10 31:16 violation 19:21 wondering 26:2
alk 6:15 29:6 Touchette's 4:14 visit 14:25 Work 5:18 10:13
talked 24:24 5:25 8:12 visual 8:10, 15, 18 22:11, 13 26:7
tough 9:16 15:24
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1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 7
Writ 8:21
^wrong 12:16
< Y >
yards 24:25
ye 32:12
Yeah 5:1 11:21
13:24 14:10 19:5
20:2,22 22:12 24:15
25:3, 6, 12, 13 28:13
29:14, 17 32:3, 7
years 27:11
< Z >
zero 24:22 25:14
zoning 25:4, 6, 7, 9
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1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 1
1 TOWN OF HIGHLAND BEACH
041 TOWN COMMISSION EXECUTIVE SESSION MEETING
2 TUESDAY, APRIL 6, 2021
3
4
5
is r\ 1
6
.� 1 ► iUti LL..
7
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
8 - - -
ATTORNEY/CLIENT EXECUTIVE SESSION AGENDA
9 RE : 1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette
CASE NO . 50-2020-CA-13920-XXXX-MB
10 - - -
11
12
13
14 Highland Beach, Florida
Tuesday, April 6, 2021
15 1 : 00 p . m . - 1 : 30 p . m .
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
4,04 Stenographically Reported by
Mary Ann Hengstler, RPR
25 Notary Public, State of Florida
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1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 2
1 APPEARANCES :
2 MAYOR DOUGLAS HILLMAN
VICE MAYOR NATASHA MOORE
3
CITY COMMISSION :
4 PEGGY GOSSETT-SEIDMAN
EVALYN DAVID
5 JOHN SHOEMAKER
6 MARSHALL LABADIE - TOWN MANAGER
LEONARD RUBIN - TOWN ATTORNEY
7
8 MARY HENGSTLER - STENOGRAPHER
9
10
11
12
f."'%"i3
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
25
Florida Court Reporting
1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 3
1 The foregoing Attorney-Client Executive
41/ 2 Session was held at 3614 South Ocean Boulevard,
3 Highland Beach, Florida, on Tuesday, April 6, 2021 ,
4 starting at 1 : 00 p . m. , with appearances as
5 hereinabove noted, to wit :
6 MAYOR HILLMAN : Okay . It ' s 1 : 00 . Shall we
7 begin . Would you call the meeting to order . Let ' s
8 call the roll , please .
9 TOWN CLERK : Okay . Commissioner Shoemaker .
10 MR . SHOEMAKER : Present .
11 TOWN CLERK : Commissioner David .
12 MS . DAVID : Present .
13 TOWN CLERK : Commissioner Gossett-Seidman .
14 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Present .
15 TOWN CLERK : Mayor Hillman .
16 MAYOR HILLMAN : Present .
17 TOWN CLERK : The Town Attorney Rubin .
18 MR . RUBIN : Here .
19 TOWN CLERK : And the Town Manager Labadie .
20 MR . LABADIE : Present .
21 TOWN CLERK : Thank you .
22 MAYOR HILLMAN : Okay . The Town Commission
23 will now commence an attorney-client session that
rN74 is estimated to last approximately 30 minutes .
25 Persons in attendance shall be the members of the
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1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 4
1 Town Commission, Town Manager Labadie, Town
2 Attorney Rubin and the court reporter .
3 The business request by the Town Attorney for
4 advice from the Town Commission concerning
5 settlement negotiations and strategy related to the
6 litigation expenditure . I will turn it over to
7 Attorney Rubin .
8 MR . RUBIN : Thank you, Mayor . So the case is
9 1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette versus
10 the Town of Highland Beach .
11 I ' ll give you a little chronology . Back in
12 February 2017 the Board approved a 40 , 000-pound
13 eight post boat lift adjacent to the rear of
14 Mr . Touchette ' s property .
15 Do you all know -- are you all familiar with
16 where the property is and how it ' s all configured?
17 Because I have maps if that helps . Okay . Then, if
18 you ' re aware . I brought just in case .
19 MR . SHOEMAKER: Actually I would like to see
20 a map, only because I have not seen the property .
21 MR . RUBIN : (Handing . )
22 MS . DAVID : If you want to see it , come to my
23 porch .
(M4 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : I drove down here in a
25 boat so . . .
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1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 5
1 MR . RUBIN : Yeah . I figured most of you
2 would be aware .
3 MS . DAVID : I look right down on top of it .
4 MR . RUBIN : So in February ' 17 that was
5 approved . It was eight posts , 40 , 000-pound lift .
6 The boat that Mr . Touchette has indicated he wishes
7 to place on the lift is approximately 48 feet and
8 12 feet in height .
9 So, then, subsequently in October 2017 ,
10 Mr . Touchette came in and requested to add two
11 additional posts . So now we ' re talking about a 10
12 post boat lift at that same location . That was
ri3 also approved by the Planning Board .
14 So what happens after that is, they begin
15 construction, and all of a sudden these 12-foot
16 pilings appear adjacent to his property . So in
17 March of -- I think May of 2019 the building
18 official issues a Stop Work Order and says , "Hey,
19 wait a second . The diagram that you submitted way
20 back in 2017 when you originally applied for the
21 boat lift only showed these four foot boat lift
22 pilings . And now here you ' re putting in these
23 12-foot pilings . " Now we ' ve now learned that it
'_4 was just -- it was an error, not on the Town ' s
25 part , it was an error on Mr . Touchette ' s
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1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 6
1 contractor ' s part . He didn ' t call out the height
2 of the boat lift piling . So it just showed these
3 4-foot pilings , but those are really the deck
4 pilings . But it just never called out the height
5 of them .
6 So subsequent to that , the property owner
7 comes back before the Planning Board and applies
8 for the 12 feet that he ' s already installed, and
9 I ' m sure you ' ll hear form your constituents they
10 don ' t like looking at those 12-foot pilings . But
11 he comes before the Planning Board in August 2020 ,
12 and the Planning Board says , "No, we ' re not
13 approving that at 12 feet . "
14 But at that meeting, the Planning Board --
15 there was some talk among the Planning Board
16 members that perhaps a lower height might be
17 considered . So it ' s sort of left at that .
18 So in November 2020 they come back before the
19 Planning Board, and this time they want pilings
20 that are seven feet in height . So at the hearing
21 our own expert -- we had an expert, the Town
22 retained an expert to look at it -- and essentially
23 what he says , which makes sense, is that , you know,
four foot was unreasonable . It ' s just not
25 technically feasible . 12 feet was too high . And
Florida Court Reporting
1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 7
1 seven feet -- six, seven feet is about right .
2 So what the Planning Board does , is the
3 Planning Board denies it, essentially not because
4 they feel like the difference between four and
5 seven is all that great, but the rationale at the
6 end of the meeting is that, well , if the Planning
7 Board had known back in February of 2017 that they
8 were really going to be seven feet , not just these
9 four feet , maybe they wouldn ' t have approved it in
10 that location .
11 Because , as you ' re familiar, those of you who
12 are familiar with the property, and as you can see
13 on the map, there ' s two locations where he could
14 have put this lift; there ' s the one to the rear and
15 then there ' s the one to the west . There ' s that
16 area to the west that he could have placed the boat
17 lift .
18 Now at the hearing Mr . Touchette claimed that
19 the reason he didn ' t put it there is because his
20 daughter has some 70-foot boat that they ' re going
21 to moor there . And so he wanted to, you know, put
22 the boat lift here to allow the boat there, because
23 if the boat was behind the house -- and I ' m not
sure it would fit behind the house -- But , I mean,
25 that was his explanation for it .
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1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 8
1 (Thereupon, Vice Mayor Moore entered the meeting . )
2 Going back to what the code standards are .
3 So the code standards basically say a mooring
4 facility has to be in a canal that ' s 80 feet wide .
5 And the criteria that you ' re talking about that
6 should have been considered back in 2017 at the
7 time of original approval is that the lift will not
8 create a hazardous interference with navigation, it
9 won ' t endanger life or property or deny the public
10 reasonable visual access to the public waterways .
11 So at the hearing what the applicant , what
12 Mr . Touchette ' s legal counsel argued, is , "Look, it
i3 was approved twice by the Town at that location .
14 So we really shouldn ' t be talking about the
15 navigation or talking about the visual access ,
16 because it ' s really the same . Because once the
17 boat ' s on the lift , it ' s really the boat that ' s
18 obstructing the visual access more than the pilings
19 themselves . So that was the argument .
20 So we ' re now kind of in this position where
21 they have now filed a petition for Writ of
22 Certiorari challenging the Planning Board ' s denial .
23 Understandably what their argument is is there ' s
no -- you know, even the Town ' s own expert said we
25 need at least seven feet . Which, you know, I
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1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 9
1 understand where they ' re coming from .
Omk
2 And the reason why I wanted to have this
3 session and didn ' t just answer the petition is
4 because a court might -- and I was talking about
5 this with Marshall . There ' s a good chance we could
6 lose this because of the way that the expert
7 testimony, it was our expert who said you need
8 seven feet . The only way that we can really
9 prevail, and I ' ve been thinking about this for
10 weeks , days and weeks , is to show, "Well , because
11 it was your mistake back in 2017 when you submitted
12 the plans , you can ' t rely on that approval . So you
�13 need to go through the process again . " I ' m not
14 sure -- I mean, I ' m still looking -- I found a
15 little bit of support for that . It ' s kind of a
16 tough argument to make . But what I wanted the
17 Commission to know is , if I was a betting man right
18 now, I think we might lose this . But I understand
19 that sometimes it ' s better to just let these things
20 play out in the legal proceedings .
21 But I just wanted to give The Commission an
22 opportunity that if the Commission was okay with
23 the seven feet, or something around seven feet, we
?4 could settle it , end any additional expenditures
25 and sort of put a close to it .
Florida Court Reporting
1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 10
1 So I just wanted to get your collective input
4I/ 2 on what the Commission thought was best for the
3 Town .
4 MAYOR HILLMAN : Have they proposed a seven
5 foot settlement?
6 MR . RUBIN : Well , seven feet is what they
7 applied for . So I ' m sure they would settle at
8 seven because that ' s the best they can get at this
9 point . So even if the court decides in their
10 favor, all they get is seven . So I ' m sure they
11 would settle at seven . I ' m not sure they would
12 settle less than seven, because I ' m not sure that
it will work with the lift as they have it
14 proposed .
15 I was looking back through the transcript of
16 Mr . Nutter, who ' s their expert , their engineer,
17 marine engineer . He did say six to seven . But ,
18 you know, we ' re talking inches here now between six
19 and seven . So I believe they would settle at seven
20 because that ' s what they applied for .
21 MAYOR HILLMAN : Okay . Thank you for the
22 background .
23 MR. RUBIN : You ' re welcome .
?4 MAYOR HILLMAN : I ' d like to start with Evalyn
25 for two reasons ; one , you live there and; second,
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1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 11
1 you ' re closest to the people that live there . So
2 let ' s start with you .
3 MS . DAVID : Well , the people who live there
4 aren ' t going to be happy with seven feet . Whether
5 that ' s reasonable or not, I ' m not prepared to say
6 at this point . But I do know they will not be
7 happy with that . They don ' t want to look at the
8 hull of a 48-foot boat . Looking at a 48-foot boat
9 itself is fine , it ' s on a marina . But looking at
10 the hull is something completely different . And if
11 you ' re talking about something that ' s going to be
12 12 feet in the air, it means all the way up to the
doiN
13 second floor you ' re not going to be able to see
14 beyond this boat . It ' s going to take up everything
15 in front of you .
16 MAYOR HILLMAN : Well, all you ' re going to be
17 seeing, or not seeing is the house behind it . So
18 whether it ' s seven or four, it ' s three less feet of
19 house that you ' re going to see that ' s a distance
20 behind it .
21 MS . DAVID : Yeah . Understood . But
22 superstructures on boats are nice , hulls are not .
23 MAYOR HILLMAN : Agreed . Okay . Pass it down .
MR . SHOEMAKER : Okay . I ' ve got several
25 questions . And I ' m new at this . I haven ' t seen
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 12
1 this before . Other than how it was prepared .
2 First thing, the Planning Board . It would
3 seem to me that the Planning Board would normally
4 check, on rails , if there were no height numbers ,
5 and they didn ' t . Is that right?
6 MR. RUBIN : Yes . Somebody should have picked
7 that up . Again, I don ' t know why it wasn ' t picked
8 up, the height of the boat lift pilings not being
9 called out on the plans . It should have been
10 picked up by staff at the time and it should have
11 been picked up by the Board when they were
12 reviewing the plans .
riN13 MR . SHOEMAKER : So legally --
14 MR . RUBIN : But it wasn ' t .
15 MR . SHOEMAKER : -- it can be argued that both
16 sides were wrong . That ' s an issue right there .
17 MR . RUBIN : And, interestingly enough, in
18 their brief, in their petition, they ' re blaming the
19 Town . Well , the Town -- it ' s ridiculous , because
20 it can ' t be four feet . But we do have at the
21 hearing, Mr . Nutter did testify at the most recent
22 Planning Board hearing, and he said, " It was my
23 mistake, I messed up . "
24 MR . SHOEMAKER : Good .
25 MR . RUBIN : So that is helpful for us . So
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1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 13
1 that ' s sort of what I was , like, getting to . Our
2 only argument has to be that we relied on their --
3 they misrepresented to us , then we relied on their
4 misrepresentation . So the approval shouldn ' t
5 stand . Because if the -- if the approvals from
6 2017 stand, we have a really hard time saying he
7 can ' t have seven feet . The only way we can attack
8 it is to attack those approvals way back in ' 17 and
9 say, "We didn ' t realize until much later that it
10 was way taller than had been depicted on the
11 plans . "
12 MR . SHOEMAKER: Okay . So on this map, the
13 west end, how wide is that?
14 MR . RUBIN : Where the boat lift is?
15 MR . SHOEMAKER : Where the boat -- is that
16 where it is right now?
17 MR . RUBIN : It ' s right at the rear of the
18 property . It ' s about 50 something feet over there ,
19 I believe . I measured it the other day . You know,
20 it ' s never that accurate . I was measuring on PAPA .
21 MAYOR HILLMAN : Let me jump in, John . It ' s
22 where your thumb is .
23 MR . SHOEMAKER: It ' s where my thumb is?
�?4 MAYOR HILLMAN : Yeah . No, go across .
25 MR. SHOEMAKER: The property is this red . So
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 14
1 this is the property line here --
2 MAYOR HILLMAN : Where your pen is now is
3 where those pilings are .
4 MR . SHOEMAKER : Right . And so what I ' m
5 trying to understand is how wide -- if it ' s 50 feet
6 wide for a 48 foot boat , you got one foot on either
7 end?
8 MAYOR HILLMAN : It ' s wide enough to
9 accommodate the boat .
10 MR . RUBIN : Yeah . It ' s wide enough to
11 accommodate that boat .
12 MR . SHOEMAKER : And this is where he wants to
13 put the boat versus the rear?
14 MAYOR HILLMAN : That ' s correct .
15 MS . DAVID : Right .
16 MR . RUBIN : Right .
17 MR . SHOEMAKER : And why wouldn ' t he put it
18 there?
19 MR . RUBIN : Well , as I said, his
20 explanation is --
21 MR . SHOEMAKER : Because his daughter?
22 MR . RUBIN : I don ' t know why, but his
23 explanation at the hearing was his daughter, or
^24 somebody, has a larger boat , and that when they
25 visit they want to moor on the side where it kind
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 15
1 of cuts back in .
2 MR. SHOEMAKER : Oh, on the side would be here
3 you ' re saying?
4 MR . RUBIN : Yes . Correct .
5 MR. SHOEMAKER : I see . So, you know,
6 honestly, having been in this canal, having a
7 48-foot boat right there with these other boats ,
8 and they ' re big, that ' s kind of an interference
9 with the travel . I mean, you ' ve got to be very
10 sharp in your maneuvering of the boat to get it
11 past, if boats are in these slots and he ' s there .
12 MAYOR HILLMAN : Yes .
11013 MR . SHOEMAKER : Whether it ' s up or not --
14 MAYOR HILLMAN : It ' s not part of this issue,
15 though .
16 MR . SHOEMAKER : I know . But , I mean, it is
17 an issue in terms of just traffic, which I
18 understand, that ' s an extraneous point .
19 MR . RUBIN : If it had been challenged back in
20 2017 on that hazard, the navigation issue , I think
21 it was a pretty easy argument to make . Because
22 you ' re right , to navigate around that , especially
23 to the , you know, the peoples whose homes are to
the east of there, it is tough to get around there .
25 It gets tight .
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 16
1 MR . SHOEMAKER : It ' s brutal .
41/ 2 MR . RUBIN : And that would have been a really
3 great argument to have raised back in 2017 , which
4 nobody raised .
5 MR. SHOEMAKER : This is , again, another issue
6 for the Planning Board, because I ' ve got to tell
7 you, if there ' s any wind coming in with a big
8 boat --
9 MAYOR HILLMAN : It ' s a moot point now .
10 MR . SHOEMAKER : You ' re saying it is
11 absolutely a moot point?
12 MR . RUBIN : Well , what I ' m saying is , it ' s
likely a moot point . But our only angle at this
14 point is to attack -- that we relied on their
15 mistake so they have no entitlement . And I don ' t
16 know how it ' s going to fly . I ' m trying to be
17 creative here . I ' m trying to think a little
18 outside the box . Because we had -- we had got into
19 it , in all honesty, myself included, saying, well ,
20 really all we ' re talking about is a difference
21 between four and seven . Or four and twelve the
22 first time, then four and seven the second time .
23 So we really shouldn ' t be looking at the other
r24 things . But, you know, then the Board denied it
25 because they felt like maybe they would not have
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 17
1 approved it had they known the true height . So
4102 that ' s sort of what we have to now, take that as a
3 springboard to what the Town ' s defense can be .
4 MR . SHOEMAKER : And just , there is going to
5 be an obstruction for anybody trying to get in this
6 small -- right here, this small canal . Okay . It ' s
7 moot . I don ' t want to beat that dead horse . And
8 you ' re saying that there ' s no way that he would
9 compromise and move it to the other side?
10 MR . RUBIN : It ' s something I could -- I could
11 definitely bring up . I don ' t believe so . And I ' ve
12 never had any indication from Mr . Touchette or his
1 3 attorney that they would . But maybe -- you know, I
14 could approach them with that .
15 MS . DAVID : I have a question . If that boat
16 sticks out too far, could his neighbors , who can ' t
17 get boats by him who -- can they sue him because
18 they don ' t have --
19 MR . RUBIN : Yes .
20 MS . DAVID : -- have quiet enjoyment of their
21 property?
22 MR . RUBIN : Well , that ' s a very
23 interesting --
MS . DAVID : They have docks too --
25 MR . RUBIN : That ' s a very interesting point .
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 18
1 MS . DAVID : -- and they should be able to put
AIN
2 appropriate-sized boats on their docks , but if they
3 can ' t get by him, that ' s a problem .
4 MR . RUBIN : Okay . So this is -- this is a
5 very interesting point . So I have this issue come
6 up in North Palm Beach all the time . North Palm
7 Beach has many canals . And so we have a regulatory
8 scheme, like the Town of Highland Beach does , about
9 what you can and can ' t do . Well , just because you
10 can do it under the code doesn ' t mean that you ' re
11 not impairing the riparian rights of your
12 neighbors . So that it can become a civil issue .
004b413 And matter of fact , in the Town of Hypoluxo, we
14 have a case right now where they ' re fighting over
15 that exact same thing . Where one alleges that the
16 other ' s boat lift impedes his riparian rights , and
17 it ' s going to trial . It keeps getting delayed, but
18 will go to trial .
19 MS . DAVID : I mean, because I look right down
20 on that spot . So personally it ' s not blocking my
21 view of anything, quite frankly .
22 MR . RUBIN : Right . Right . It ' s really the
23 neighbors .
f '_4 MS . DAVID : But when you look down, you get a
25 different perspective . And I ' ve been in boating,
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1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 19
1 and that ' s an awful narrow area to have to
2 maneuver . I mean, boats don ' t maneuver that easily
3 if it ' s a decent-sized boat . It ' s not driving a
4 car that you can change by inches .
5 MR . RUBIN : Yeah . I mean --
6 MS . DAVID : You need clearance .
7 MR. RUBIN : The problem is like -- really, I
8 don ' t know why that wasn ' t considered when it was
9 approved originally, because no matter what ' s
10 there -- no matter what the size of it , if it ' s in
11 that location, it seems to me you can make an
12 argument it ' s a hazard to navigation . Or an
13 interference with navigation .
14 MS . DAVID : Well, it depends on how far into
15 that boat lift he pulls the boat . Because the
16 front could wind up over the property line onto the
17 next door neighbor ' s .
18 MR . RUBIN : Well , then, that would be a
19 separate -- he can ' t go past the property line
20 extended . So that would become a separate
21 violation . But I see where you ' re going .
22 MR. SHOEMAKER: But have you told him that he
23 could be susceptible to lawsuits because of
24 interference?
25 MAYOR HILLMAN : We ' re getting into other
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 20
1 issues here .
41/ 2 MR . RUBIN : Yeah . I have not advised him of
3 that .
4 MAYOR HILLMAN : Let ' s try to stay focused on
5 the issue .
6 MR . SHOEMAKER : That ' s a problem .
7 MAYOR HILLMAN : Anything else, John?
8 MR. SHOEMAKER : I would -- I guess my last
9 question would be, you know, the expense of a
10 lawsuit on something like this is kind of
11 ridiculous . This should not have happened, in my
12 book . Now that it has, I really think that we
3 should settle it . And I think seven feet -- I
14 don ' t want to argue -- no matter what, they
15 approved it at four, the boat was going to be there
16 anyway, no matter what . No matter if it
17 interferes . The boat was going to be there at four
18 feet . The Planning Board had no clue with the
19 problem of that boat at four feet .
20 MAYOR HILLMAN : The boat ' s not going to be
21 there at four .
22 MR . RUBIN : Yeah, the pilings are four feet .
23 MS . DAVID : As I understand it , he changed
24 the size of the boat .
25 MR. SHOEMAKER : Oh, he changed the size of
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 21
1 the boat .
2 MS . DAVID : And that made a difference .
3 MR . RUBIN : I don ' t know . He says he never
4 did, it was always intended to be the same boat ,
5 but I don ' t know .
6 MR . SHOEMAKER : Well , in any event , what
7 we ' re arguing about, are we going, you know, be
8 forced to give him seven? Or if we want we could
9 get four?
10 MR . RUBIN : I mean, four is just not
11 technically feasible .
12 MR . SHOEMAKER : For a 48 foot boat , I
n
13 wouldn ' t think it would be .
14 MR . RUBIN : Both experts -- well , his expert ,
15 of course, but even our, the Town ' s expert said
16 that ' s just not technically feasible .
17 MR . SHOEMAKER: So my suggestion is , based
18 upon what I ' ve heard so far, and I ' ll listen more,
19 but it would just seem to me, let ' s compromise at
20 seven .
21 MAYOR HILLMAN : The other piece that ' s
22 missing in this background is the boat that he ' s
23 buying, or plans to purchase, requires more than
r'?4 four feet . It has three props . The third prop is
25 lower . So he ' s got to get it further out of the
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 22
1 water, and four feet doesn ' t do it for him .
10 2 So that ' s why this whole megillah has come
3 about .
4 MR . SHOEMAKER : Very good .
5 MAYOR HILLMAN : Peggy .
6 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Thank you, Mayor . Have
7 we -- first of all , each person who permitted this
8 was a different company, right? The original
9 permit was Safe Build .
10 MR . RUBIN : Yes , I believe so . And then
11 Mr . Massey was here when the Stop Work Order was
12 issued . And then, yeah, so now --
13 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : He issued a Stop Work
14 Order . So we ' ve had three different building
15 people . Is there any capability of presenting that
16 as a problem, that --
17 MR . RUBIN : (Shakes head) .
18 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : No .
19 MR . RUBIN : No .
20 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Okay . Secondly, have
21 we -- when I looked at our ordinances , there are
22 three references right off the bat that the lift
23 may not impede on a neighboring property . And
24 there ' s also a 25-foot setback . This is a
25 single-family home, right? It ' s not -- it ' s not --
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 23
1 MR . RUBIN : It ' s a single-family home .
2 MS . DAVID : Single-family home .
3 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Have those been -- have
4 we reviewed that?
5 MR . RUBIN : My understanding is that it did
6 comply with all those other requirements . Those
7 were never raised by staff .
8 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Because there ' s no
9 setback either by -- there ' s no setback .
10 MR . RUBIN : There ' s no setback for the -- for
11 the piling, correct . They ' re like right -- those
12 last set of pilings are right on the property line .
13 MS . •GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : That ' s right --
14 MR . RUBIN : Which section are you looking at?
15 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : I ' ve looked at these a
16 thousand times .
17 MR. RUBIN : I ' m sure you have . You ' re
18 probably more well versed than I am.
19 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Oh, no, I wouldn ' t .
20 MR . RUBIN : No, no . I mean, it ' s -- I have a
21 lot of different codes .
22 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Well , you have a lot of
23 different towns too . So let me get the initial . . .
Z4 Section 3068 , and we ' re all the way down to G (1 ) .
25 And on going down . G ( 1 ) , G (2 ) .
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 24
1 MR . RUBIN : Right .
4102 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : There ' s several
3 references . "Lifting devices --
4 MR . RUBIN : Well , that ' s the boat .
5 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : -- will provide
6 adequate protection of neighboring property .
7 There ' s no infringement of standard navigational
8 practices . " I don ' t even know -- I was initially
9 looking just now for if we allow two large boats at
10 a property . I don ' t know if we have that per our
11 codes .
12 But these other codes which I ' ve looked at
` 13 before do seem to reference that over and over .
14 "Shall not impede on a neighboring property . "
15 MR . RUBIN : Yeah . No, he can ' t be over the
16 line .
17 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : And there ' s no
18 setback -- there ' s no setback here . And so, when
19 these were looked at all three times , it seems to
20 me that our codes were not applied .
21 MR . LABADIE : For the multi-family there ' s a
22 zero setback .
23 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Yes , I vaguely remember
24 that , Marshall . And we talked about that for the
25 side yards also, that it ' s missing in our code .
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 25
1 MR . SHOEMAKER: Doesn ' t he say that he has a
2 multi-family?
3 MR. RUBIN : Oh, yeah . It was under the
4 zoning district . No, it --
5 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : This is referencing it .
6 MR . RUBIN : Yeah, no, the zoning district
7 is -- I can ' t remember what the zoning district is .
8 RML? I believe that it might be considered -- it ' s
9 not a single-family zoning district , because I
10 think in RML we do allow multi-family, don ' t we? I
11 believe .
12 MR . LABAD I E : Yeah .
#1111 13 MR . RUBIN : Yeah . So that ' s why it ' s the
14 zero, not the 25-foot . Because they ' re -- you
15 know, an interesting thing about Grand Court, is
16 that was also built as a result of a lawsuit
17 settlement .
18 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Right .
19 MR . RUBIN : So it also doesn ' t comply with a
20 lot of the requirements because it was a
21 settlement . And the settlement agreement dictated
22 the parameters of how those -- like, none of them
23 meet lot coverage . It ' s a little bit of a mess
eigN24 back there because of how that was approved .
25 Complete aside .
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 26
1 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : All right . I
41/ 2 understand . I ' m just wondering if there were
3 any -- any point of law we could --
4 MR. RUBIN : Right . No, I understand .
5 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : So those are my two
6 questions . My initial feeling is to stay out of
7 court . If we can work up a settlement , I would be
8 more pro that to save the Town money and time .
9 MR . SHOEMAKER: But the only settlement is
10 seven feet .
11 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Right .
12 MR . RUBIN : Well , that ' s -- I mean, seven
feet ' s a no brainer, because that ' s all he can get .
14 Now whether we could try to convince him to move it
15 to the other side, I don ' t think so, because
16 they ' ve already put the pilings in . You ' re talking
17 a lot money here . So I don ' t think they ' ll ever
18 bite on that . I think they think their chances are
19 pretty good . And, you know, I wish I didn ' t think
20 they were as good as , you know, they might be . But
21 I think, you know, just based on the evidence, we
22 kind of have to argue, no, it ' s not -- you know,
23 you have to go back to the original approval , " It
was your mistake, we relied on your mistake, so you
25 shouldn ' t be entitled to rely on" -- we ' d have to
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 27
1 look at all the factors , which is what the Board
2 said . "Well , we want to look at all the factors . "
3 Which, then, gets into the navigation issue .
4 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Are there any other
5 pending potential lawsuits regarding our codes?
6 Because I 'm always concerned, while we ' re building
7 a decent building department , that we would have
8 some outstanding lawsuits waiting to be filed .
9 MR . RUBIN : Not that I ' m aware of .
10 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Because they ' re not
11 followed for years . So there ' s nothing else behind
12 this , so this would set a precedence?
13 MR . RUBIN : I don ' t believe it would set a
14 precedent . I ' m not aware of any others but . . .
15 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Marshall , do you know
16 of any other potential suits?
17 MR . LABADIE : No . They ' re the only ones that
18 have filed anything . We always get failed threats
19 from time to time when somebody ' s told they can ' t
20 have what they want .
21 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Right .
22 MR . LABADIE : But , otherwise, we ' ve not been
23 to court -- or suit filed yet outside of this one .
24 MS . DAVID : I have another question .
25 MR . RUBIN : Yes , ma ' am.
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 28
1 MS . DAVID : Could the neighbors who could
2 obviously sue him civilly, could they sue us for
3 allowing him to put up something that impeded their
4 rights?
5 MR . RUBIN : Generally, no . Because that ' s
6 something -- you know, interpreting codes and that ,
7 those kind of things are generally immune from
8 suit . It ' s a sovereign immunity issue . So
9 generally, no . But they could sue him if they
10 wished .
11 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : May I make a comment on
12 that?
13 MR. RUBIN : Yeah, sure .
14 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Evalyn, just recently
15 on this trip I was on, it was brought up many, many
16 municipalities are acquiring a special kind of
17 insurance which provides coverage for individuals
18 serving in a public official capacity . Because as
19 it stands now, any of the five of us could be sued
20 as an individual person for a decision we make .
21 And I don ' t believe our town carries that
22 insurance . And I ' m certainly not afraid of being
23 sued . I ' m just saying, this might be something we
(-N24 want to look at . Many towns are looking into it ,
25 small and large .
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 29
1 MAYOR HILLMAN : Okay .
41/ 2 MS . DAVID : I would guess that would be
3 similar to officer and director insurance .
4 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Yes , ma ' am .
5 MR . RUBIN : We do have to stay on -- only
6 very limited things we can talk about .
7 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : So as for this , unless
8 my colleagues , you know, sway another way, I would
9 be interested in settling . But I ' m not totally
10 opposed to pursuing it in order to appear as we ' re
11 staying firm on our codes . That ' s my feeling .
12 Thanks .
ram,
13 MAYOR HILLMAN : Natasha .
14 VICE MAYOR MOORE : Yeah, I agree . I would
15 settle and say our intent is to be firm on our code
16 so that other people don ' t think that they can do
17 the same thing . But, yeah, I think it ' s important
18 to stay out of court and settle .
19 MAYOR HILLMAN : I agree . Our attorney feels
20 we have less than a 50-shot -- 50/50-shot of
21 winning this thing . I know many of your neighbors
22 are not going to be happy . But the combination of
23 expending funds to try to win something that we
(24 think is an uphill battle doesn ' t make a lot of
25 sense to me . Obviously I ' d ask you to try to
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1 negotiate less than seven, but I think we should
2 authorize up to seven .
3 MR . RUBIN : We ' ll try . Okay .
4 MAYOR HILLMAN : Okay .
5 MR . SHOEMAKER: And, actually, the better
6 position would be to have him put the boat around
7 the other side .
8 MR . RUBIN : I agree, but he ' s not going to do
9 that because --
10 MAYOR HILLMAN : I sat through, listened to
11 many discussions in the Planning Board meeting
12 trying to convince him to move to the other side,
r13 and they made no progress on that .
14 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Mayor, is there a
15 chance that moving a 70-foot boat into there ,
16 whether it ' s part-time or not , might not even be
17 commonsense because of the tides and -- I mean, I
18 was in there in a 28-foot boat and we could hardly
19 get out , on a windy day . Is there a possibility
20 that that may not transpire anyway?
21 MAYOR HILLMAN : You know, there is . He
22 hasn ' t purchased that boat yet .
23 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Okay .
)4 MAYOR HILLMAN : And during the meetings that
25 I listened to, he was going to buy it , then the
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 31
1 price went up so he didn ' t buy it . So, I mean, I ' m
2 not going to say the guy ' s a nut . But , you know,
3 he doesn ' t seem to have it all there .
4 MS . GOSSETT-SEIDMAN : Okay .
5 MAYOR HILLMAN : I don ' t know . I will tell
6 you, though, I mean, I used to be a boater, and
7 with bow thrusters today and stern thrusters , the
8 bigger the boat the easier it is to navigate it .
9 So getting boats in and out of there, the smaller
10 boats are going to have greater difficulty than the
11 larger boats . They ' re more affected by the wind
12 and they don ' t have all the navigation equipment .
13 But it is what it is . So I would recommend that we
14 authorize --
15 MR . RUBIN : All right . So I ' ll contact the
16 counsel for Mr . Touchette and we ' ll see what we can
17 hammer out . Eventually when it -- if we come to
18 terms , or whatever the terms might be, it ' ll have
19 to come and be approved at a public meeting . But
20 there ' s nothing for you all to do now if that ' s
21 your direction to me, is to try to settle, then
22 I ' ll do my best .
23 MAYOR HILLMAN : Okay . We ' re in agreement .
MR . RUBIN : Thank you so much .
25 MAYOR HILLMAN : Okay . Thank you . I have to
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1 read this . Reopen public meeting for termination
41/ 2 of the attorney-client session .
3 MR . RUBIN : Oh, yeah . If you can open the
4 door, Marshall .
5 MAYOR HILLMAN : And now our Town Commission
6 meeting, public meeting is adjourned .
7 MR. RUBIN : Yeah . We have to actually
8 adjourn it publicly . So if you could open the
9 door . This seems ridiculous , but if you -- you
10 have to announce the termination when it ' s public
11 again .
12 MR . LABADIE : Hear ye, hear ye -- I ' m sorry .
13 MR. RUBIN : Okay . Now we ' re public . It ' s
14 terminated . Thank you so much .
15 MAYOR HILLMAN : Okay . Now adjourn the
16 meeting . Thank you all .
17 MR. RUBIN : Thank you, Mayor . Thank you
18 Commission .
19 (Proceedings were concluded at 1 : 30 p . m. )
20
21
22
23
24
25
Florida Court Reporting
cc1_coo_n000
1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 33
1 CERTIFICATE
2
3 THE STATE OF FLORIDA
4 COUNTY OF PALM BEACH
5 I , Mary Ann Hengstler, Registered Professional
6 Reporter, do hereby certify that I was authorized to
7 and did report the foregoing proceedings at the time
8 and place herein stated, and that the foregoing is a
9 true and correct transcription of my stenotype notes
10 taken during said proceedings .
11
12 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand
13 this 19th day of April, 2021 .
14
15
16
17
18
19 ff/44.14e
20 MARY ANN HENGSTLER
Registered Professional Reporter
21
22
23
elN24
25
Florida Court Reporting
Fi _gna_naaa
1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 1
WORD INDEX < 8 > 19:9 20:15 25:24 best 10:2, 8 31:22
80 8:4 31:19 better 9:19 30:5
41)< 1 > approving 6:13 betting 9:17
1:00 1:15 3:4, 6 < A > approximately 3:24 beyond 11:14
1:30 1:15 32:19 able 11:13 18:1 5:7 big 15:8 16:7
10 5:11 absolutely 16:11 APRIL 1:2, 14 3:3 bigger 31:8
1006 1:9 4:9 access 8:10, 15, 18 33:13 bit 9:15 25:23
12 5:8 6:8, 13,25 accommodate 14:9, 11 area 7:16 19:1 bite 26:18
11:12 accurate 13:20 argue 20:14 26:22 blaming 12:18
12-foot 5:15,23 6:10 acquiring 28:16 argued 8:12 12:15 blocking 18:20
17 5:4 13:8 add 5:10 arguing 21:7 Board 4:12 5:13
19th 33:13 additional 5:11 9:24 argument 8:19,23 6:7, 11, 12, 14, 15, 19
adequate 24:6 9:16 13:2 15:21 7:2,3, 7 12:2,3, 11,
< 2 > adjacent 4:13 5:16 16:3 19:12 22 16:6,24 20:18
2017 4:12 5:9,20 adjourn 32:8, 15 aside 25:25 27:1 30:11
7:7 8:6 9:11 13:6 adjourned 32:6 attack 13:7, 8 16:14 Board's 8:22
15:20 16:3 advice 4:4 attendance 3:25 boat 4:13,25 5:6, 12,
2019 5:17 advised 20:2 ATTORNEY 2:6 21 6:2 7:16,20,22,
2020 6:11, 18 afraid 28:22 3:17 4:2,3, 7 17:13 23 8:17 11:8, 14
2021 1:2, 14 3:3 AGENDA 1:8 29:19 12:8 13:14, 15 14:6,
33:13 agree 29:14, 19 30:8 9, 11, 13,24 15:7, 10
25-foot 22:24 25:14 Agreed 11:23 ATTORNEY/CLIENT 16:8 17:15 18:16
28-foot 30:18 agreement 25:21 1:8 19:3, 15 20:15, 17, 19,
31:23 Attorney-Client 3:1, 24 21:1,4, 12, 22
Ilk3 > air 11:12 23 32:2 24:4 30:6, 15, 18,22
3:24 alleges 18:15 August 6:11 31:8
3068 23:24 allow 7:22 24:9 authorize 30:2 31:14 boater 31:6
3614 3:2 25:10 authorized 33:6 boating 18:25
allowing 28:3 aware 4:18 5:2 boats 11:22 15:7, 11
< 4 > angle 16:13 27:9, 14 17:17 18:2 19:2
40,000-pound 4:12 Ann 1:24 33:5,20 awful 19:1 24:9 31:9, 10, 11
5:5 announce 32:10 boat's 8:17 20:20
48 5:7 14:6 21:12 answer 9:3 < B > book 20:12
48-foot 11:8 15:7 anybody 17:5 Back 4:11 5:20 6:7, Boulevard 3:2
4-foot 6:3 anyway 20:16 30:20 18 7:7 8:2, 6 9:11 bow 31:7
appear 5:16 29:10 10:15 13:8 15:1, 19 box 16:18
< 5 > APPEARANCES 2:1 16:3 25:24 26:23 brainer 26:13
50 13:18 14:5 3:4 background 10:22 brief 12:18
50/50-shot 29:20 applicant 8:11 21:22 bring 17:11
50-2020-CA-13920- applied 5:20 10:7, based 21:17 26:21 brought 4:18 28:15
XXXX-MB 1:9 20 24:20 basically 8:3 brutal 16:1
50-shot 29:20 applies 6:7 bat 22:22 Build 22:9
approach 17:14 battle 29:24 building 5:17 22:14
< 6 > appropriate-sized BEACH 1:1, 14 3:3 27:6, 7
6 1:2, 14 3:3 18:2 4:10 18:6, 7,8 33:4 built 25:16
approval 8:7 9:12 beat 17:7 business 4:3
'"``< 7 > 13:4 26:23 believe 10:19 13:19 buy 30:25 31:1
70-foot 7:20 30:15 approvals 13:5, 8 17:11 22:10 25:8, 11 buying 21:23
approved 4:12 5:5, 27:13 28:21
13 7:9 8:13 17:1
Florida Court Reporting
�c, _co�_n000
1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 2
< C > Commissioner 3:9, decides 10:9 essentially 6:22 7:3
call 37, 8 6:1 11, 13 decision 28:20 estimated 3:24
"'called 6:4 12:9 commonsense 30:17 deck 6:3 EVALYN 2:4 10:24
canal 8:4 15:6 17:6 company 22:8 defense 17:3 28:14
canals 18:7 Complete 25:25 definitely 17:11 event 21:6
capability 22:15 completely 11:10 delayed 18:17 Eventually 31:17
capacity 28:18 comply 23:6 25:19 denial 8:22 evidence 26:21
car 19:4 compromise 17:9 denied 16:24 exact 18:15
carries 28:21 21:19 denies 7:3 EXECUTIVE 1:1, 8
CASE 1:9 4:8, 18 concerned 27:6 deny 8:9 3:1
18:14 concerning 4:4 department 27:7 expending 29:23
certainly 28:22 concluded 32:19 depends 19:14 expenditure 4:6
certify 33:6 configured 4:16 depicted 13:10 expenditures 9:24
Certiorari 8:22 considered 6:17 8:6 devices 24:3 expense 20:9
challenged 15:19 19:8 25:8 diagram 5:19 expert 6:21,22 8:24
challenging 8:22 constituents 6:9 dictated 25:21 9:6, 7 10:16 21:14,
chance 9:5 30:15 construction 5:15 difference 7:4 16:20 15
chances 26:18 contact 31:15 21:2 experts 21:14
change 19:4 contractor's 6:1 different 11:10 explanation 7:25
changed 20:23,25 convince 26:14 30:12 18:25 22:8, 14 23:21, 14:20,23
check 12:4 correct 14:14 15:4 23 extended 19:20
chronology 4:11 23:11 33:9 difficulty 31:10 extraneous 15:18
CITY 2:2 counsel 8:12 31:16 direction 31:21
civil 18:12 COUNTY 33:4 director 29:3 < F >
.evilly 28:2 course 21:15 discussions 30:11 facility 8:4
`'claimed 7:18 Court 1:9 4:2, 9 9:4 distance 11:19 fact 18:13
clearance 19:6 10:9 25:15 26:7 district 25:4, 6, 7, 9 factors 27:1, 2
CLERK 3:9, 11, 13, 27:23 29:18 docks 17:24 18:2 failed 27:18
15, 17, 19,21 coverage 25:23 28:17 door 19:17 32:4, 9 familiar 4:15 7:11,
close 9:25 create 8:8 DOUGLAS 2:2 12
closest 11:1 creative 16:17 driving 19:3 far 17:16 19:14
clue 20:18 criteria 8:5 drove 4:24 21:18
code 8:2,3 18:10 cuts 15:1 favor 10:10
24:25 29:15 < E > feasible 6:25 21:11,
codes 23:21 24:11, < D > easier 31:8 16
12,20 27:5 28:6 daughter 7:20 14:21, easily 19:2 February 4:12 5:4
29:11 23 east 15:24 7:7
colleagues 29:8 DAVID 2:4 3:11, 12 easy 15:21 feel 7:4
collective 10:1 4:22 5:3 11:3, 21 eight 4:13 5:5 feeling 26:6 29:11
combination 29:22 14:15 17:15,20,24 either 14:6 23:9 feels 29:19
come 4:22 6:18 18:1, 19,24 19:6, 14 endanger 8:9 feet 5:7, 8 6:8, 13,20,
18:5 22:2 31:17, 19 20:23 21:2 23:2 engineer 10:16, 17 25 7:1, 8, 9 8:4,25
comes 6:7, 11 27:24 28:1 29:2 enjoyment 17:20 9:8,23 10:6 11:4, 12,
coming 9:1 16:7 day 13:19 30:19 entered 8:1 18 12:20 13:7, 18
commence 3:23 33:13 entitled 26:25 14:5 20:13, 18, 19,22
comment 28:11 days 9:10 entitlement 16:15 21:24 22:1 26:10
C2OMMISSION 1:1 dead 17:7 equipment 31:12 feet's 26:13
:2 3:22 4:1,4 9:17, decent 27:7 error 5:24,25 felt 16:25
21,22 10:2 32:5, 18 decent-sized 19:3 especially 15:22 fighting 18:14
figured 5:1
Florida Court Reporting
1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 3
filed 8:21 27:8, 18, 22 24:2,5, 17,23 homes 15:23 JOHN 2:5 13:21
_, 23 25:5, 18 26:1,5, 11 honestly 15:6 20:7
Fine 11:9 27:4, 10, 15,21 28:11, honesty 16:19 jump 13:21
firm 29:11, 15 14 29:4, 7 30:14,23 horse 17:7
First 12:2 16:22 31:4 house 7:23,24 11:17, < K >
22:7 Grand 1:9 4:9 19 keeps 18:17
fit 7:24 25:15 hull 11:8, 10 kind 8:20 9:15
five 28:19 great 7:5 16:3 hulls 11:22 14:25 15:8 20:10
floor 11:13 greater 31:10 Hypoluxo 18:13 26:22 28:7, 16
Florida 1:14, 25 3:3 guess 20:8 29:2 know 4:15 6:23
33:3 guy's 31:2 < I> 7:21 8:24,25 9:17
fly 16:16 immune 28:7 10:18 11:6 12:7
focused 20:4 < H > immunity 28:8 13:19 14:22 15:5, 16,
followed 27:11 hammer 31:17 impairing 18:11 23 16:16,24 17:13
foot 5:21 6:24 10:5 hand 33:12 impede 22:23 24:14 19:8 20:9 21:3,5, 7
14:6 21:12 Handing 4:21 impeded 28:3 24:8, 10 25:15 26:19,
forced 21:8 happened 20:11 impedes 18:16 20,21,22 27:15 28:6
foregoing 3:1 33:7, 8 happens 5:14 important 29:17 29:8,21 30:21 31:2,
form 6:9 happy 11:4, 7 29:22 inches 10:18 19:4 5
found 9:14 hard 13:6 included 16:19 known 7:7 17:1
four 5:21 6:24 7:4, hazard 15:20 19:12 indicated 5:6
9 11:18 12:20 16:21, hazardous 8:8 indication 17:12 < L >
22 20:15, 17, 19,21, head 22:17 individual 28:20 LABADIE 2:6 3:19,
22 21:9, 10,24 22:1 hear 6:9 32:12 individuals 28:17 20 4:1 24:21 25:12
rankly 18:21 heard 21:18 infringement 24:7 27:17,22 32:12
front 11:15 19:16 hearing 6:20 7:18 initial 23:23 26:6 large 24:9 28:25
funds 29:23 8:11 12:21,22 14:23 initially 24:8 larger 14:24 31:11
further 21:25 height 5:8 6:1,4, 16, input 10:1 law 26:3
20 12:4,8 17:1 installed 6:8 lawsuit 20:10 25:16
< G > held 3:2 insurance 28:17, 22 lawsuits 19:23 27:5,
G(1 23:24,25 helpful 12:25 29:3 8
G(2 23:25 helps 4:17 intended 21:4 learned 5:23
Generally 28:5, 7, 9 Hengstler 1:24 2:8 intent 29:15 left 6:17
getting 13:1 18:17 33:5,20 interested 29:9 legal 8:12 9:20
19:25 31:9 hereinabove 3:5 interesting 17:23,25 legally 12:13
give 4:11 9:21 21:8 hereunto 33:12 18:5 25:15 LEONARD 2:6
go 9:13 13:24 18:18 Hey 5:18 interestingly 12:17 life 8:9
19:19 26:23 high 6:25 interference 8:8 lift 4:13 5:5, 7, 12,
going 7:8,20 8:2 HIGHLAND 1:1, 14 15:8 19:13,24 21 6:2 7:14, 17,22
11:4, 11, 13, 14, 16, 19 3:3 4:10 18:8 interferes 20:17 8:7, 17 10:13 12:8
16:16 17:4 18:17 HILLMAN 2:2 3:6, interpreting 28:6 13:14 18:16 19:15
19:21 20:15, 17,20 15, 16,22 10:4,21,24 issue 12:16 15:14, 17, 22:22
21:7 23:25 29:22 11:16,23 13:21,24 20 16:5 18:5, 12 Lifting 24:3
30:8,25 31:2, 10 14:2, 8, 14 15:12, 14 20:5 27:3 28:8 limited 29:6
good 9:5 12:24 22:4 16:9 19:25 20:4, 7, issued 22:12, 13 line 14:1 19:16, 19
26:19,20 20 21:21 22:5 29:1, issues 5:18 20:1 23:12 24:16
t"'1GOSSETT- 13, 19 30:4, 10,21,24 it'll 31:18 listen 21:18
SEIDMAN 2:4 3:13, 31:5,23,25 32:5, 15 listened 30:10,25
14 4:24 22:6, 13, 18, home 22:25 23:1,2 < J > litigation 4:6
20 23:3, 8, 13, 15, 19,
Florida Court Reporting
at-, con nnnn
1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 4
little 4:11 9:15 31:5,23, 25 32:5, 15, 19:6 other's 18:16
16:17 25:23 17 negotiate 30:1 outside 16:18 27:23
Olive 10:25 11:1,3 mean 7:24 9:14 negotiations 4:5 outstanding 27:8
LLC 1:9 4:9 15:9, 16 18:10, 19 neighboring 22:23 owner 6:6
location 5:12 7:10 19:2,5 21:10 23:20 24:6, 14
8:13 19:11 26:12 30:17 31:1, 6 neighbors 17:16 < P >
locations 7:13 means 11:12 18:12,23 28:1 29:21 p.m 1:15 3:4 32:19
look 5:3 6:22 8:12 measured 13:19 neighbor's 19:17 Palm 18:6 33:4
11:7 18:19,24 27:1, measuring 13:20 never 6:4 13:20 PAPA 13:20
2 28:24 meet 25:23 17:12 21:3 23:7 parameters 25:22
looked 22:21 23:15 MEETING 1:1 3:7 new 11:25 part 5:25 6:1 15:14
24:12, 19 6:14 7:6 8:1 30:11 nice 11:22 part-time 30:16
looking 6:10 9:14 31:19 32:1, 6, 16 normally 12:3 Pass 11:23
10:15 11:8, 9 16:23 meetings 30:24 North 18:6 PEGGY 2:4 22:5
23:14 24:9 28:24 megillah 22:2 Notary 1:25 pen 14:2
lose 9:6, 18 members 3:25 6:16 noted 3:5 pending 27:5
lot 23:21,22 25:20, mess 25:23 notes 33:9 people 11:1,3 22:15
23 26:17 29:24 messed 12:23 November 6:18 29:16
lower 6:16 21:25 minutes 3:24 numbers 12:4 peoples 15:23
misrepresentation nut 31:2 permit 22:9
< M > 13:4 Nutter 10:16 12:21 permitted 22:7
ma'am 27:25 29:4 misrepresented 13:3 person 22:7 28:20
man 9:17 missing 21:22 24:25 < O > personally 18:20
MANAGER 2:6 mistake 9:11 12:23 obstructing 8:18 Persons 3:25
03:19 4:1 16:15 26:24 obstruction 17:5 perspective 18:25
maneuver 19:2 money 26:8, 17 obviously 28:2 29:25 petition 8:21 9:3
maneuvering 15:10 moor 7:21 14:25 Ocean 3:2 12:18
map 4:20 7:13 MOORE 2:2 8:1 October 5:9 picked 12:6, 7, 10, 11
13:12 29:14 officer 29:3 piece 21:21
maps 4:17 mooring 8:3 official 5:18 28:18 piling 6:2 23:11
March 5:17 moot 16:9, 11, 13 Oh 15:2 20:25 pilings 5:16,22,23
marina 11:9 17:7 23:19 25:3 32:3 6:3,4, 10, 19 8:18
marine 10:17 move 17:9 26:14 Okay 3:6,9,22 4:17 12:8 14:3 20:22
MARSHALL 2:6 30:12 9:22 10:21 11:23,24 23:12 26:16
9:5 24:24 27:15 moving 30:15 13:12 17:6 18:4 place 5:7 33:8
32:4 multi-family 24:21 22:20 29:1 30:3,4, placed 7:16
Mary 1:24 2:8 33:5, 25:2, 10 23 31:4,23,25 32:13, Planning 5:13 6:7,
20 municipalities 28:16 15 11, 12, 14, 15, 19 7:2,
Massey 22:11 once 8:16 3, 6 8:22 12:2,3,22
matter 18:13 19:9, < N > ones 27:17 16:6 20:18 30:11
10 20:14, 16 narrow 19:1 open 32:3, 8 plans 9:12 12:9, 12
MAYOR 2:2 3:6, 15, NATASHA 2:2 opportunity 9:22 13:11 21:23
16,22 4:8 8:1 10:4, 29:13 opposed 29:10 play 9:20
21,24 11:16,23 navigate 15:22 31:8 order 3:7 5:18 please 3:8
13:21,24 14:2, 8, 14 navigation 8:8, 15 22:11, 14 29:10 point 10:9 11:6
15:12, 14 16:9 19:25 15:20 19:12, 13 27:3 ordinances 22:21 15:18 16:9, 11, 13, 14
20:4, 7,20 21:21 31:12 original 8:7 22:8 17:25 18:5 26:3
W 22:5, 6 29:1, 13, 14, navigational 24:7 26:23 porch 4:23
19 30:4, 10, 14,21,24 need 8:25 9:7, 13 originally 5:20 19:9 position 8:20 30:6
Florida Court Reporting
1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 5
possibility 30:19 27:24 ridiculous 12:19 sense 6:23 29:25
post 4:13 5:12 questions 11:25 26:6 20:11 32:9 separate 19:19,20
epos. 5:5, 11 quiet 17:20 right 5:3 7:1 9:17 serving 28:18
potential 27:5, 16 quite 18:21 12:5, 16 13:16, 17 SESSION 1:1, 8 3:2,
practices 24:8 14:4, 15, 16 15:7,22 23 9:3 32:2
precedence 27:12 < R > 17:6 18:14, 19, 22 set 23:12 27:12, 13
precedent 27:14 rails 12:4 22:8,22,25 23:11, 12, 33:12
prepared 11:5 12:1 raised 16:3,4 23:7 13 24:1 25:18 26:1, setback 22:24 23:9,
Present 3:10, 12, 14, rationale 7:5 4, 11 27:21 31:15 10 24:18,22
16,20 read 32:1 rights 18:11, 16 28:4 settle 9:24 10:7, 11,
presenting 22:15 realize 13:9 riparian 18:11, 16 12, 19 20:13 29:15,
pretty 15:21 26:19 really 6:3 7:8 8:14, RML 25:8, 10 18 31:21
prevail 9:9 16, 17 9:8 13:6 16:2, roll 3:8 settlement 4:5 10:5
price 31:1 20,23 18:22 19:7 RPR 1:24 25:17,21 26:7, 9
pro 26:8 20:12 RUBIN 2:6 3:17, 18 settling 29:9
probably 23:18 rear 4:13 7:14 4:2, 7,8,21 5:1,4 seven 6:20 7:1,5, 8
problem 18:3 19:7 13:17 14:13 10:6,23 12:6, 14, 17, 8:25 9:8,23 10:4, 6,
20:6, 19 22:16 reason 7:19 9:2 25 13:14, 17 14:10, 8, 10, 11, 12, 17, 19
PROCEEDINGS 1:2 reasonable 8:10 11:5 16, 19,22 15:4, 19 11:4, 18 13:7 16:21,
9:20 32:19 33:7, 10 reasons 10:25 16:2, 12 17:10, 19,22, 22 20:13 21:8,20
process 9:13 recommend 31:13 25 18:4,22 19:5, 7, 26:10, 12 30:1,2
Professional 33:5,20 red 13:25 18 20:2,22 21:3, 10, Shakes 22:17
progress 30:13 reference 24:13 14 22:10, 17, 19 23:1, sharp 15:10
prop 21:24 references 22:22 5, 10, 14, 17,20 24:1, SHOEMAKER 2:5
10Property 4:14, 16,20 24:3 4, 15 25:3, 6, 13, 19 3:9, 10 4:19 11:24
5:16 6:6 7:12 8:9 referencing 25:5 26:4, 12 27:9, 13,25 12:13, 15,24 13:12,
13:18,25 14:1 17:21 regarding 27:5 28:5, 13 29:5 30:3,8 15,23,25 14:4, 12, 17,
19:16, 19 22:23 Registered .33:5,20 31:15,24 32:3, 7, 13, 21 15:2,5, 13, 16
23:12 24:6, 10, 14 regulatory 18:7 17 16:1,5, 10 17:4
proposed 10:4, 14 related 4:5 19:22 20:6,8,25
props 21:24 relied 13:2,3 16:14 < S > 21:6, 12, 17 22:4
protection 24:6 26:24 Safe 22:9 25:1 26:9 30:5
provide 24:5 rely 9:12 26:25 sat 30:10 show 9:10
provides 28:17 remember 24:23 save 26:8 showed 5:21 6:2
Public 1:25 8:9, 10 25:7 saying 13:6 15:3 side 14:25 15:2
28:18 31:19 32:1,6, Reopen 32:1 16:10, 12, 19 17:8 17:9 24:25 26:15
10, 13 report 33:7 28:23 30:7, 12
publicly 32:8 Reported 1:24 says 5:18 6:12,23 sides 12:16
pulls 19:15 reporter 4:2 33:6,20 21:3 similar 29:3
purchase 21:23 request 4:3 scheme 18:8 single-family 22:25
purchased 30:22 requested 5:10 second 5:19 10:25 23:1,2 25:9
pursuing 29:10 requirements 23:6 11:13 16:22 six 7:1 10:17, 18
put 7:14, 19,21 9:25 25:20 Secondly 22:20 size 19:10 20:24,25
14:13, 17 18:1 26:16 requires 21:23 section 23:14,24 slots 15:11
28:3 30:6 result 25:16 see 4:19,22 7:12 small 17:6 28:25
putting 5:22 retained 6:22 11:13, 19 15:5 19:21 smaller 31:9
f'� reviewed 23:4 31:16 Somebody 12:6
< Q > reviewing 12:12 seeing 11:17 14:24
question 17:15 20:9 Richard 1:9 4:9 seen 4:20 11:25 somebody's 27:19
sorry 32:12
Florida Court Reporting
1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 6
sort 6:17 9:25 13:1 talking 5:11 8:5, 14, TOWN 1:1 2:6 3:9,
17:2 15 9:4 10:18 11:11 11, 13, 15, 17, 19,21, < W >
South 3:2 16:20 26:16 22 4:1,3,4, 10 6:21 wait 5:19
sovereign 28:8 taller 13:10 8:13 10:3 12:19 waiting 27:8
special 28:16 technically 6:25 18:8, 13 26:8 28:21 want 4:22 6:19
spot 18:20 21:11, 16 32:5 11:7 14:25 17:7
springboard 17:3 tell 16:6 31:5 towns 23:23 28:24 20:14 21:8 27:2,20
staff 12:10 23:7 terminated 32:14 Town's 5:24 8:24 28:24
stand 13:5, 6 termination 32:1, 10 17:3 21:15 wanted 7:21 9:2, 16,
standard 24:7 terms 15:17 31:18 traffic 15:17 21 10:1
standards 8:2,3 testify 12:21 TRANSCRIPT 1:2 wants 14:12
stands 28:19 testimony 9:7 10:15 water 22:1
start 10:24 11:2 Thank 3:21 4:8 transcription 33:9 waterways 8:10
starting 3:4 10:21 22:6 31:24,25 transpire 30:20 way 5:19 9:6, 8
State 1:25 33:3 32:14, 16, 17 travel 15:9 11:12 13:7,8, 10
stated 33:8 Thanks 29:12 trial 18:17, 18 17:8 23:24 29:8
stay 20:4 26:6 29:5, thing 12:2 18:15 trip 28:15 weeks 9:10
18 25:15 29:17,21 true 17:1 33:9 welcome 10:23
staying 29:11 things 9:19 16:24 try 20:4 26:14 well 7:6 9:10 10:6
STENOGRAPHER 28:7 29:6 29:23,25 30:3 31:21 11:3, 16 12:19 14:19
2:8 think 5:17 9:18 trying 14:5 16:16, 16:12, 19 17:22 18:9
Stenographically 1:24 15:20 16:17 20:12, 17 17:5 30:12 19:14, 18 21:6, 14
stenotype 33:9 13 21:13 25:10 TUESDAY 1:2, 14 23:18,22 24:4 26:12
stern 31:7 26:15, 17, 18, 19,21 3:3 27:2
ticks 17:16 29:16, 17,24 30:1 turn 4:6 went 31:1
Stop 5:18 22:11, 13 thinking 9:9 twelve 16:21 we're 5:11 6:12
strategy 4:5 third 21:24 twice 8:13 8:20 10:18 16:20
submitted 5:19 9:11 thought 10:2 two 5:10 7:13 10:25 19:25 21:7 23:24
subsequent 6:6 thousand 23:16 24:9 26:5 27:6 29:10 31:23
subsequently 5:9 threats 27:18 32:13
sudden 5:15 three 11:18 21:24 < U > west 7:15, 16 13:13
sue 17:17 28:2, 9 22:14,22 24:19 understand 9:1, 18 we've 5:23 22:14
sued 28:19,23 thrusters 31:7 14:5 15:18 20:23 27:22
suggestion 21:17 thumb 13:22,23 26:2,4 WHEREOF 33:12
suit 27:23 28:8 tides 30:17 Understandably 8:23 wide 8:4 13:13 14:5,
suits 27:16 tight 15:25 understanding 23:5 6,8, 10
superstructures 11:22 time 6:19 8:7 12:10 Understood 11:21 win 29:23
support 9:15 13:6 16:22 18:6 unreasonable 6:24 wind 16:7 19:16
sure 6:9 7:24 9:14 26:8 27:19 33:7 uphill 29:24 31:11
10:7, 10, 11, 12 23:17 times 23:16 24:19 windy 30:19
28:13 today 31:7 < V > winning 29:21
susceptible 19:23 told 19:22 27:19 vaguely 24:23 wish 26:19
sway 29:8 top 5:3 versed 23:18 wished 28:10
totally 29:9 versus 4:9 14:13 wishes 5:6
< T > Touchette 1:9 4:9 VICE 2:2 8:1 29:14 wit 3:5
take 11:14 17:2 5:6, 10 7:18 17:12 view 18:21 WITNESS 33:12
33:10 31:16 violation 19:21 wondering 26:2
Saken
alk 6:15 29:6 Touchette's 4:14 visit 14:25 Work 5:18 10:13
talked 24:24 5:25 8:12 visual 8:10, 15, 18 22:11, 13 26:7
tough 9:16 15:24
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1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 7
Writ 8:21
wrong 12:16
'P< Y >
yards 24:25
ye 32:12
Yeah 5:1 11:21
13:24 14:10 19:5
20:2,22 22:12 24:15
25:3, 6, 12, 13 28:13
29:14, 17 32:3, 7
years 27:11
< Z >
zero 24:22 25:14
zoning 25:4, 6, 7, 9
Amos
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a 1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 1 (1)
1 TOWN OF HIGHLAND BEACH
TOWN COMMISSION EXECUTIVE SESSION MEETING
2 TUESDAY, APRIL 6, 2021
3
4
5 Condensed
6
7
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
8 - - -
ATTORNEY/CLIENT EXECUTIVE SESSION AGENDA
9 RE : 1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette
CASE NO . 50-2020-CA-13920-XXXX-MB
10 - - -
11
12
13
14 Highland Beach, Florida
Tuesday, April 6, 2021
15 1 : 00 p . m. - 1 : 30 p .m .
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24 Stenographically Reported by
Mary Ann Hengstler, RPR
25 Notary Public, State of Florida
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1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021+
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 2 (2 - 5) .,
Page 2 Page 4
1 APPEARANCES A: S N L I' p 1 Town Commission, Town Manager Labadie, Town
2 VlCRMA9OLNATASFIA NlEORE 2 Attorney Rubin and the court reporter.
3 3 The business request by the Town Attorney for4
4 advice from the Town Commission concerning
5HER 5 settlement negotiations and strategy related to the
6 n8 A II L RIIAI ND I E T OWN OA TURN YE R. 6 litigation expenditure. I will turn it over to
7 7 Attorney Rubin.
8 MARY HE NG S T L E R — STENOGRAPHER 8 MR. RUBIN: Thank you, Mayor. So the case is
9 9 1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette versus
10 10 the Town of Highland Beach.
11 11 I'll give you a little chronology. Back in
12 12 February 2017 the Board approved a 40,000-pound
13 13 eight post boat lift adjacent to the rear of
14 14 Mr. Touchette's property.
15 15 Do you all know -- are you all familiar with
16 16 where the property is and how it's all configured?
17 17 Because I have maps if that helps. Okay. Then, if
18 18 you're aware. I brought g just in case.
19 19 MR. SHOEMAKER: Actually I would like to see
20 20 a map, only because I have not seen the property.
21 21 MR. RUBIN: (Handing.)
22 22 MS. DAVID: If you want to see it, come to my
23 23 porch.
24 24 MS. GOSSETT-SEIDMAN: I drove down here in a
25 25 boat so...
1 The foregoing Attorney-Client Executive Page 3 Page 5
9 9 Y- 1 MR. RUBIN: Yeah. I figured most of you
2 Session was held at 3614 South Ocean Boulevard, 2 would be aware.
3 Highland Beach, Florida, on Tuesday, April 6, 2021, 3 MS. DAVID: I look right down on top of it.
4 starting at 1:00 p.m., with appearances as 4 MR. RUBIN: So in February '17 that was
5 hereinabove noted, to wit: 5 approved. It was eight posts, 40,000-pound lift.
6 MAYOR HILLMAN: Okay. It's 1:00. Shall we 6 The boat that Mr. Touchette has indicated he wishes
7 begin. Would you call the meeting to order. Let's 7 to place on the lift is approximately 48 feet and
8 call the roll, please. 8 12 feet in height.
9 TOWN CLERK: Okay. Commissioner Shoemaker. 9 So, then, subsequently in October 2017,
10 MR. SHOEMAKER: Present. 10 Mr. Touchette came in and requested to add two
11 TOWN CLERK: Commissioner David. 11 additional posts. So now we're talking about a 10
12 MS. DAVID: Present. 12 post boat lift at that same location. That was
13 TOWN CLERK: Commissioner Gossett-Seidman. 13 also approved by the Planning Board.
14 MS. GOSSETT-SEIDMAN: Present. 14 So what happens after that is, they begin
15 TOWN CLERK: Mayor Hillman. 15 construction, and all of a sudden these 12-foot
16 MAYOR HILLMAN: Present. 16 pilings appear adjacent to his property. So in
17 TOWN CLERK: The Town Attorney Rubin. 17 March of -- I think May of 2019 the building
18 MR. RUBIN: Here. 18 official issues a Stop Work Order and says, "Hey,
19 TOWN CLERK: And the Town Manager Labadie. 19 wait a second. The diagram that you submitted way
20 MR. LABADIE: Present. 20 back in 2017 when you originally applied for the
21 TOWN CLERK: Thank you. 21 boat lift only showed these four foot boat lift
22 MAYOR HILLMAN: Okay. The Town Commission 22 pilings. And now here you're putting in these
23 will now commence an attorney-client session that 23 12-foot pilings." Now we've now learned that it
24 is estimated to last approximately 30 minutes. 24 was just -- it was an error, not on the Town's
25 Persons in attendance shall be the members of the 25 part, it was an error on Mr. Touchette's
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1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
w ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 3 (6 - 9)
Page 6 Page 8
1 contractor's part. He didn't call out the height 1 (Thereupon, Vice Mayor Moore entered the meeting.)
2 of the boat lift piling. So it just showed these 2 Going back to what the code standards are.
3 4-foot pilings, but those are really the deck 3 So the code standards basically say a mooring
4 pilings. But it just never called out the height 4 facility has to be in a canal that's 80 feet wide.
5 of them. 5 And the criteria that you're talking about that
6 So subsequent to that, the property owner 6 should have been considered back in 2017 at the
7 comes back before the Planning Board and applies 7 time of original approval is that the lift will not
8 for the 12 feet that he's already installed, and 8 create a hazardous interference with navigation, it
9 I'm sure you'll hear form your constituents they 9 won't endanger life or property or deny the public
10 don't like looking at those 12-foot pilings. But 10 reasonable visual access to the public waterways.
11 he comes before the Planning Board in August 2020, 11 So at the hearing what the applicant, what
12 and the Planning Board says, "No, we're not 12 Mr. Touchette's legal counsel argued, is, "Look, it
13 approving that at 12 feet." 13 was approved twice by the Town at that location.
14 But at that meeting, the Planning Board -- 14 So we really shouldn't be talking about the
15 there was some talk among the Planning Board 15 navigation or talking about the visual access,
16 members that perhaps a lower height might be 16 because it's really the same. Because once the
17 considered. So it's sort of left at that. 17 boat's on the lift, it's really the boat that's
18 So in November 2020 they come back before the 18 obstructing the visual access more than the pilings
19 Planning Board, and this time they want pilings 19 themselves. So that was the argument.
20 that are seven feet in height. So at the hearing 20 So we're now kind of in this position where
21 our own expert -- we had an expert, the Town 21 they have now filed a petition for Writ of
22 retained an expert to look at it -- and essentially 22 Certiorari challenging the Planning Board's denial.
23 what he says, which makes sense, is that, you know, 23 Understandably what their argument is is there's
24 four foot was unreasonable. It's just not 24 no -- you know, even the Town's own expert said we
25 technically feasible. 12 feet was too high. And 25 need at least seven feet. Which, you know, I
Page 7 Page 9
1 seven feet -- six, seven feet is about right. 1 understand where they're coming from.
2 So what the Planning Board does, is the 2 And the reason why I wanted to have this
3 Planning Board denies it, essentially not because 3 session and didn't just answer the petition is
4 they feel like the difference between four and 4 because a court might -- and I was talking about
5 seven is all that great, but the rationale at the 5 this with Marshall. There's a good chance we could
6 end of the meeting is that, well, if the Planning 6 lose this because of the way that the expert
7 Board had known back in February of 2017 that they 7 testimony, it was our expert who said you need
8 were really going to be seven feet, not just these 8 seven feet. The only way that we can really
9 four feet, maybe they wouldn't have approved it in 9 prevail, and I've been thinking about this for
10 that location. 10 weeks, days and weeks, is to show, "Well, because
11 Because, as you're familiar, those of you who 11 it was your mistake back in 2017 when you submitted
12 are familiar with the property, and as you can see 12 the plans, you can't rely on that approval. So you
13 on the map, there's two locations where he could 13 need to go through the process again." I'm not
14 have put this lift; there's the one to the rear and 14 sure -- I mean, I'm still looking -- I found a
15 then there's the one to the west. There's that 15 little bit of support for that. It's kind of a
16 area to the west that he could have placed the boat 16 tough argument to make. But what I wanted the
17 lift. 17 Commission to know is, if I was a betting man right
18 Now at the hearing Mr. Touchette claimed that 18 now, I think we might lose this. But I understand
19 the reason he didn't put it there is because his 19 that sometimes it's better to just let these things
20 daughter has some 70-foot boat that they're going 20 play out in the legal proceedings.
21 to moor there. And so he wanted to, you know, put 21 But I just wanted to give The Commission an
22 the boat lift here to allow the boat there, because 22 opportunity that if the Commission was okay with
23 if the boat was behind the house -- and I'm not 23 the seven feet, or something around seven feet, we
24 sure it would fit behind the house -- But, I mean, 24 could settle it, end any additional expenditures
25 that was his explanation for it. 25 and sort of put a close to it.
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1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 4 (10 - 13)
Page 10 Page 12
1 So I just wanted to get your collective input 1 this before. Other than how it was prepared.
2 on what the Commission thought was best for the 2 First thing, the Planning Board. It would
3 Town. 3 seem to me that the Planning Board would normally
4 MAYOR HILLMAN: Have they proposed a seven 4 check, on rails, if there were no height numbers,
5 foot settlement? 5 and they didn't. Is that right?
6 MR. RUBIN: Well, seven feet is what they 6 MR. RUBIN: Yes. Somebody should have picked
7 applied for. So I'm sure they would settle at 7 that up. Again, I don't know why it wasn't picked
8 seven because that's the best they can get at this 8 up, the height of the boat lift pilings not being
9 point. So even if the court decides in their 9 called out on the plans. It should have been
10 favor, all they get is seven. So I'm sure they 10 picked up by staff at the time and it should have
11 would settle at seven. I'm not sure they would 11 been picked up by the Board when they were
12 settle less than seven, because I'm not sure that 12 reviewing the plans.
13 it will work with the lift as they have it 13 MR. SHOEMAKER: So legally --
14 proposed. 14 MR. RUBIN: But it wasn't.
15 I was looking back through the transcript of 15 MR. SHOEMAKER: -- it can be argued that both
16 Mr. Nutter, who's their expert, their engineer, 16 sides were wrong. That's an issue right there.
17 marine engineer. He did say six to seven. But, 17 MR. RUBIN: And, interestingly enough, in
18 you know, we're talking inches here now between six 18 their brief, in their petition, they're blaming the
19 and seven. So I believe they would settle at seven 19 Town. Well, the Town -- it's ridiculous, because
20 because that's what they applied for. 20 it can't be four feet. But we do have at the
21 MAYOR HILLMAN: Okay. Thank you for the 21 hearing, Mr. Nutter did testify at the most recent
22 background. 22 Planning Board hearing, and he said, "It was my
23 MR. RUBIN: You're welcome. 23 mistake, I messed up."
24 MAYOR HILLMAN: I'd like to start with Evalyn 24 MR. SHOEMAKER: Good.
25 for two reasons; one, you live there and; second, 25 MR. RUBIN: So that is helpful for us. So
Page 11 Page 13
1 you're closest to the people that live there. So 1 that's sort of what I was, like, getting to. Our
2 let's start with you. 2 only argument has to be that we relied on their --
3 MS. DAVID: Well, the people who live there 3 they misrepresented to us, then we relied on their
4 aren't going to be happy with seven feet. Whether 4 misrepresentation. So the approval shouldn't
5 that's reasonable or not, I'm not prepared to say 5 stand. Because if the -- if the approvals from
6 at this point. But I do know they will not be 6 2017 stand, we have a really hard time saying he
7 happy with that. They don't want to look at the 7 can't have seven feet. The only way we can attack
8 hull of a 48-foot boat. Looking at a 48-foot boat 8 it is to attack those approvals way back in '17 and
9 itself is fine, it's on a marina. But looking at 9 say, "We didn't realize until much later that it
10 the hull is something completely different. And if 10 was way taller than had been depicted on the
11 you're talking about something that's going to be 11 plans."
12 12 feet in the air, it means all the way up to the 12 MR. SHOEMAKER: Okay. So on this map, the
13 second floor you're not going to be able to see 13 west end, how wide is that?
14 beyond this boat. It's going to take up everything 14 MR. RUBIN: Where the boat lift is?
15 in front of you. 15 MR. SHOEMAKER: Where the boat -- is that
16 MAYOR HILLMAN: Well, all you're going to be 16 where it is right now?
17 seeing, or not seeing is the house behind it. So 17 MR. RUBIN: It's right at the rear of the
18 whether it's seven or four, it's three less feet of 18 property. It's about 50 something feet over there,
19 house that you're going to see that's a distance 19 I believe. I measured it the other day. You know,
20 behind it. 20 it's never that accurate. I was measuring on PAPA.
21 MS. DAVID: Yeah. Understood. But 21 MAYOR HILLMAN: Let me jump in, John. It's
22 superstructures on boats are nice, hulls are not. 22 where your thumb is.
23 MAYOR HILLMAN: Agreed. Okay. Pass it down. 23 MR. SHOEMAKER: It's where my thumb is?
24 MR. SHOEMAKER: Okay. I've got several 24 MAYOR HILLMAN: Yeah. No, go across.
25 questions. And I'm new at this. I haven't seen 25 MR. SHOEMAKER: The property is this red. So
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1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 5 (14 - 17)
Page 14 Page 16
1 this is the property line here -- 1 MR. SHOEMAKER: It's brutal.
2 MAYOR HILLMAN: Where your pen is now is 2 MR. RUBIN: And that would have been a really
3 where those pilings are. 3 great argument to have raised back in 2017, which
4 MR. SHOEMAKER: Right. And so what I'm 4 nobody raised.
5 trying to understand is how wide -- if it's 50 feet 5 MR. SHOEMAKER: This is, again, another issue
6 wide for a 48 foot boat, you got one foot on either 6 for the Planning Board, because I've got to tell
7 end? 7 you, if there's any wind coming in with a big
8 MAYOR HILLMAN: It's wide enough to 8 boat --
9 accommodate the boat. 9 MAYOR HILLMAN: It's a moot point now.
10 MR. RUBIN: Yeah. It's wide enough to 10 MR. SHOEMAKER: You're saying it is
11 accommodate that boat. 11 absolutely a moot point?
12 MR. SHOEMAKER: And this is where he wants to 12 MR. RUBIN: Well, what I'm saying is, it's
13 put the boat versus the rear? 13 likely a moot point. But our only angle at this
14 MAYOR HILLMAN: That's correct. 14 point is to attack -- that we relied on their
15 MS. DAVID: Right. 15 mistake so they have no entitlement. And I don't
16 MR. RUBIN: Right. 16 know how it's going to fly. I'm trying to be
17 MR. SHOEMAKER: And why wouldn't he put it 17 creative here. I'm trying to think a little
18 there? 18 outside the box. Because we had -- we had got into
19 MR. RUBIN: Well, as I said, his 19 it, in all honesty, myself included, saying, well,
20 explanation is -- 20 really all we're talking about is a difference
21 MR. SHOEMAKER: Because his daughter? 21 between four and seven. Or four and twelve the
22 MR. RUBIN: I don't know why, but his 22 first time, then four and seven the second time.
23 explanation at the hearing was his daughter, or 23 So we really shouldn't be looking at the other
24 somebody, has a larger boat, and that when they 24 things. But, you know, then the Board denied it
25 visit they want to moor on the side where it kind 25 because they felt like maybe they would not have
Page 15 Page 17
1 of cuts back in. 1 approved it had they known the true height. So
2 MR. SHOEMAKER: Oh, on the side would be here 2 that's sort of what we have to now, take that as a
3 you're saying? 3 springboard to what the Town's defense can be.
4 MR. RUBIN: Yes. Correct. 4 MR. SHOEMAKER: And just, there is going to
5 MR. SHOEMAKER: I see. So, you know, 5 be an obstruction for anybody trying to get in this
6 honestly, having been in this canal, having a 6 small -- right here, this small canal. Okay. It's
7 48-foot boat right there with these other boats, 7 moot. I don't want to beat that dead horse. And
8 and they're big, that's kind of an interference 8 you're saying that there's no way that he would
9 with the travel. I mean, you've got to be very 9 compromise and move it to the other side?
10 sharp in your maneuvering of the boat to get it 10 MR. RUBIN: It's something I could -- I could
11 past, if boats are in these slots and he's there. 11 definitely bring up. I don't believe so. And I've
12 MAYOR HILLMAN: Yes. 12 never had any indication from Mr. Touchette or his
13 MR. SHOEMAKER: Whether it's up or not -- 13 attorney that they would. But maybe -- you know, I
14 MAYOR HILLMAN: It's not part of this issue, 14 could approach them with that.
15 though. 15 MS. DAVID: I have a question. If that boat
16 MR. SHOEMAKER: I know. But, I mean, it is 16 sticks out too far, could his neighbors, who can't
17 an issue in terms of just traffic, which I 17 get boats by him who -- can they sue him because
18 understand, that's an extraneous point. 18 they don't have --
19 MR. RUBIN: If it had been challenged back in 19 MR. RUBIN: Yes.
20 2017 on that hazard, the navigation issue, I think 20 MS. DAVID: -- have quiet enjoyment of their
21 it was a pretty easy argument to make. Because 21 property?
22 you're right, to navigate around that, especially 22 MR. RUBIN: Well, that's a very
23 to the, you know, the peoples whose homes are to 23 interesting --
24 the east of there, it is tough to get around there. 24 MS. DAVID: They have docks too --
25 It gets tight. 25 MR. RUBIN: That's a very interesting point.
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ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 6 (18 - 21)
Page 18 Page 20
1 MS. DAVID: -- and they should be able to put 1 issues here.
2 appropriate-sized boats on their docks, but if they 2 MR. RUBIN: Yeah. I have not advised him of
3 can't get by him, that's a problem. 3 that.
4 MR. RUBIN: Okay. So this is -- this is a 4 MAYOR HILLMAN: Let's try to stay focused on
5 very interesting point. So I have this issue come 5 the issue.
6 up in North Palm Beach all the time. North Palm 6 MR. SHOEMAKER: That's a problem.
7 Beach has many canals. And so we have a regulatory 7 MAYOR HILLMAN: Anything else, John?
8 scheme, like the Town of Highland Beach does, about 8 MR. SHOEMAKER: I would -- I guess my last
9 what you can and can't do. Well, just because you 9 question would be, you know, the expense of a
10 can do it under the code doesn't mean that you're 10 lawsuit on something like this is kind of
11 not impairing the riparian rights of your 11 ridiculous. This should not have happened, in my
12 neighbors. So that it can become a civil issue. 12 book. Now that it has, I really think that we
13 And matter of fact, in the Town of Hypoluxo, we 13 should settle it. And I think seven feet -- I
14 have a case right now where they're fighting over 14 don't want to argue -- no matter what, they
15 that exact same thing. Where one alleges that the 15 approved it at four, the boat was going to be there
16 other's boat lift impedes his riparian rights, and 16 anyway, no matter what. No matter if it
17 it's going to trial. It keeps getting delayed, but 17 interferes. The boat was going to be there at four
18 will go to trial. 18 feet. The Planning Board had no clue with the
19 MS. DAVID: I mean, because I look right down 19 problem of that boat at four feet.
20 on that spot. So personally it's not blocking my 20 MAYOR HILLMAN: The boat's not going to be
21 view of anything, quite frankly. 21 there at four.
22 MR. RUBIN: Right. Right. It's really the 22 MR. RUBIN: Yeah, the pilings are four feet.
23 neighbors. 23 MS. DAVID: As I understand it, he changed
24 MS. DAVID: But when you look down, you get a 24 the size of the boat.
25 different perspective. And I've been in boating, 25 MR. SHOEMAKER: Oh, he changed the size of
Page 19 Page 21
1 and that's an awful narrow area to have to 1 the boat.
2 maneuver. I mean, boats don't maneuver that easily 2 MS. DAVID: And that made a difference.
3 if it's a decent-sized boat. It's not driving a 3 MR. RUBIN: I don't know. He says he never
4 car that you can change by inches. 4 did, it was always intended to be the same boat,
5 MR. RUBIN: Yeah. I mean -- 5 but I don't know.
6 MS. DAVID: You need clearance. 6 MR. SHOEMAKER: Well, in any event, what
7 MR. RUBIN: The problem is like -- really, I 7 we're arguing about, are we going, you know, be
8 don't know why that wasn't considered when it was 8 forced to give him seven? Or if we want we could
9 approved originally, because no matter what's 9 get four?
10 there -- no matter what the size of it, if it's in 10 MR. RUBIN: I mean, four is just not
11 that location, it seems to me you can make an 11 technically feasible.
12 argument it's a hazard to navigation. Or an 12 MR. SHOEMAKER: For a 48 foot boat, I
13 interference with navigation. 13 wouldn't think it would be.
14 MS. DAVID: Well, it depends on how far into 14 MR. RUBIN: Both experts -- well, his expert,
15 that boat lift he pulls the boat. Because the 15 of course, but even our, the Town's expert said
16 front could wind up over the property line onto the 16 that's just not technically feasible.
17 next door neighbor's. 17 MR. SHOEMAKER: So my suggestion is, based
18 MR. RUBIN: Well, then, that would be a 18 upon what I've heard so far, and I'll listen more,
19 separate -- he can't go past the property line 19 but it would just seem to me, let's compromise at
20 extended. So that would become a separate 20 seven.
21 violation. But I see where you're going. 21 MAYOR HILLMAN: The other piece that's
22 MR. SHOEMAKER: But have you told him that he 22 missing in this background is the boat that he's
23 could be susceptible to lawsuits because of 23 buying, or plans to purchase, requires more than
24 interference? 24 four feet. It has three props. The third prop is
25 MAYOR HILLMAN: We're getting into other 25 lower. So he's got to get it further out of the
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1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 7 (22 25)
Page 22 Page 24
1 water, and four feet doesn't do it for him. 1 MR. RUBIN: Right.
2 So that's why this whole megillah has come 2 MS. GOSSETT-SEIDMAN: There's several
3 about. 3 references. "Lifting devices --
4 MR. SHOEMAKER: Very good. 4 MR. RUBIN: Well, that's the boat.
5 MAYOR HILLMAN: Peggy. 5 MS. GOSSETT-SEIDMAN: -- will provide
6 MS. GOSSETT-SEIDMAN: Thank you, Mayor. Have 6 adequate protection of neighboring property.
7 we -- first of all, each person who permitted this 7 There's no infringement of standard navigational
8 was a different company, right? The original 8 practices." I don't even know -- I was initially
9 permit was Safe Build. 9 looking just now for if we allow two large boats at
10 MR. RUBIN: Yes, I believe so. And then 10 a property. I don't know if we have that per our
11 Mr. Massey was here when the Stop Work Order was 11 codes.
12 issued. And then, yeah, so now -- 12 But these other codes which I've looked at
13 MS. GOSSETT-SEIDMAN: He issued a Stop Work 13 before do seem to reference that over and over.
14 Order. So we've had three different building 14 "Shall not impede on a neighboring property."
15 people. Is there any capability of presenting that 15 MR. RUBIN: Yeah. No, he can't be over the
16 as a problem, that -- 16 line.
17 MR. RUBIN: (Shakes head). 17 MS. GOSSETT-SEIDMAN: And there's no
18 MS. GOSSETT-SEIDMAN: No. 18 setback -- there's no setback here. And so, when
19 MR. RUBIN: No. 19 these were looked at all three times, it seems to
20 MS. GOSSETT-SEIDMAN: Okay. Secondly, have 20 me that our codes were not applied.
21 we -- when I looked at our ordinances, there are 21 MR. LABADIE: For the multi-family there's a
22 three references right off the bat that the lift 22 zero setback.
23 may not impede on a neighboring property. And 23 MS. GOSSETT-SEIDMAN: Yes, I vaguely remember
24 there's also a 25-foot setback. This is a 24 that, Marshall. And we talked about that for the
25 single-family home, right? It's not -- it's not -- 25 side yards also, that it's missing in our code.
Page 23 Page 25
1 MR. RUBIN: It's a single-family home. 1 MR. SHOEMAKER: Doesn't he say that he has a
2 MS. DAVID: Single-family home. 2 multi-family?
3 MS. GOSSETT-SEIDMAN: Have those been -- have 3 MR. RUBIN: Oh, yeah. It was under the
4 we reviewed that? 4 zoning district. No, it --
5 MR. RUBIN: My understanding is that it did 5 MS. GOSSETT-SEIDMAN: This is referencing it.
6 comply with all those other requirements. Those 6 MR. RUBIN: Yeah, no, the zoning district
7 were never raised by staff. 7 is -- I can't remember what the zoning district is.
8 MS. GOSSETT-SEIDMAN: Because there's no 8 RML? I believe that it might be considered -- it's
9 setback either by -- there's no setback. 9 not a single-family zoning district, because I
10 MR. RUBIN: There's no setback for the -- for 10 think in RML we do allow multi-family, don't we? I
11 the piling, correct. They're like right -- those 11 believe.
12 last set of pilings are right on the property line. 12 MR. LABADIE: Yeah.
13 MS. GOSSETT-SEIDMAN: That's right -- 13 MR. RUBIN: Yeah. So that's why it's the
14 MR. RUBIN: Which section are you looking at? 14 zero, not the 25-foot. Because they're -- you
15 MS. GOSSETT-SEIDMAN: I've looked at these a 15 know, an interesting thing about Grand Court, is
16 thousand times. 16 that was also built as a result of a lawsuit
17 MR. RUBIN: I'm sure you have. You're 17 settlement.
18 probably more well versed than I am. 18 MS. GOSSETT-SEIDMAN: Right.
19 MS. GOSSETT-SEIDMAN: Oh, no, I wouldn't. 19 MR. RUBIN: So it also doesn't comply with a
20 MR. RUBIN: No, no. I mean, it's -- I have a 20 lot of the requirements because it was a
21 lot of different codes. 21 settlement. And the settlement agreement dictated
22 MS. GOSSETT-SEIDMAN: Well, you have a lot of 22 the parameters of how those -- like, none of them
23 different towns too. So let me get the initial... 23 meet lot coverage. It's a little bit of a mess
24 Section 3068, and we're all the way down to G(1). 24 back there because of how that was approved.
25 And on going down. G(1), G(2) . 25 Complete aside.
Florida Court Reporting
,_Caa_naaa
1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 8 (26 - 29)
Page 26 Page 28
1 MS. GOSSETT-SEIDMAN: All right. I 1 MS. DAVID: Could the neighbors who could
2 understand. I'm just wondering if there were 2 obviously sue him civilly, could they sue us for
3 any -- any point of law we could -- 3 allowing him to put up something that impeded their
4 MR. RUBIN: Right. No, I understand. 4 rights?
5 MS. GOSSETT-SEIDMAN: So those are my two 5 MR. RUBIN: Generally, no. Because that's
6 questions. My initial feeling is to stay out of 6 something -- you know, interpreting codes and that,
7 court. If we can work up a settlement, I would be 7 those kind of things are generally immune from
8 more pro that to save the Town money and time. 8 suit. It's a sovereign immunity issue. So
9 MR. SHOEMAKER: But the only settlement is 9 generally, no. But they could sue him if they
10 seven feet. 10 wished.
11 MS. GOSSETT-SEIDMAN: Right. 11 MS. GOSSETT-SEIDMAN: May I make a comment on
12 MR. RUBIN: Well, that's -- I mean, seven 12 that?
13 feet's a no brainer, because that's all he can get. 13 MR. RUBIN: Yeah, sure.
14 Now whether we could try to convince him to move it 14 MS. GOSSETT-SEIDMAN: Evalyn, just recently
15 to the other side, I don't think so, because 15 on this trip I was on, it was brought up many, many
16 they've already put the pilings in. You're talking 16 municipalities are acquiring a special kind of
17 a lot money here. So I don't think they'll ever 17 insurance which provides coverage for individuals
18 bite on that. I think they think their chances are 18 serving in a public official capacity. Because as
19 pretty good. And, you know, I wish I didn't think 19 it stands now, any of the five of us could be sued
20 they were as good as, you know, they might be. But 20 as an individual person for a decision we make.
21 I think, you know, just based on the evidence, we 21 And I don't believe our town carries that
22 kind of have to argue, no, it's not -- you know, 22 insurance. And I'm certainly not afraid of being
23 you have to go back to the original approval, "It 23 sued. I'm just saying, this might be something we
24 was your mistake, we relied on your mistake, so you 24 want to look at. Many towns are looking into it,
25 shouldn't be entitled to rely on" -- we'd have to 25 small and large.
Page 27 Page 29
1 look at all the factors, which is what the Board 1 MAYOR HILLMAN: Okay.
2 said. "Well, we want to look at all the factors." 2 MS. DAVID: I would guess that would be
3 Which, then, gets into the navigation issue. 3 similar to officer and director insurance.
4 MS. GOSSETT-SEIDMAN: Are there any other 4 MS. GOSSETT-SEIDMAN: Yes, ma'am.
5 pending potential lawsuits regarding our codes? 5 MR. RUBIN: We do have to stay on -- only
6 Because I'm always concerned, while we're building 6 very limited things we can talk about.
7 a decent building department, that we would have 7 MS. GOSSETT-SEIDMAN: So as for this, unless
8 some outstanding lawsuits waiting to be filed. 8 my colleagues, you know, sway another way, I would
9 MR. RUBIN: Not that I'm aware of. 9 be interested in settling. But I'm not totally
10 MS. GOSSETT-SEIDMAN: Because they're not 10 opposed to pursuing it in order to appear as we're
11 followed for years. So there's nothing else behind 11 staying firm on our codes. That's my feeling.
12 this, so this would set a precedence? 12 Thanks.
13 MR. RUBIN: I don't believe it would set a 13 MAYOR HILLMAN: Natasha.
14 precedent. I'm not aware of any others but... 14 VICE MAYOR MOORE: Yeah, I agree. I would
15 MS. GOSSETT-SEIDMAN: Marshall, do you know 15 settle and say our intent is to be firm on our code
16 of any other potential suits? 16 so that other people don't think that they can do
17 MR. LABADIE: No. They're the only ones that 17 the same thing. But, yeah, I think it's important
18 have filed anything. We always get failed threats 18 to stay out of court and settle.
19 from time to time when somebody's told they can't 19 MAYOR HILLMAN: I agree. Our attorney feels
20 have what they want. 20 we have less than a 50-shot -- 50/50-shot of
21 MS. GOSSETT-SEIDMAN: Right. 21 winning this thing. I know many of your neighbors
22 MR. LABADIE: But, otherwise, we've not been 22 are not going to be happy. But the combination of
23 to court -- or suit filed yet outside of this one. 23 expending funds to try to win something that we
24 MS. DAVID: I have another question. 24 think is an uphill battle doesn't make a lot of
25 MR. RUBIN: Yes, ma'am. 25 sense to me. Obviously I'd ask you to try to
Florida Court Reporting
5ti1 -tiRa-naaa
1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 9 (30 - 33)
Page 30 Page 32
1 negotiate less than seven, but I think we should 1 read this. Reopen public meeting for termination
2 authorize up to seven. 2 of the attorney-client session.
3 MR. RUBIN: We'll try. Okay. 3 MR. RUBIN: Oh, yeah. If you can open the
4 MAYOR HILLMAN: Okay. 4 door, Marshall.
5 MR. SHOEMAKER: And, actually, the better 5 MAYOR HILLMAN: And now our Town Commission
6 position would be to have him put the boat around 6 meeting, public meeting is adjourned.
7 the other side. 7 MR. RUBIN: Yeah. We have to actually
8 MR. RUBIN: I agree, but he's not going to do 8 adjourn it publicly. So if you could open the
9 that because -- 9 door. This seems ridiculous, but if you -- you
10 MAYOR HILLMAN: I sat through, listened to 10 have to announce the termination when it's public
11 many discussions in the Planning Board meeting 11 again.
12 trying to convince him to move to the other side, 12 MR. LABADIE: Hear ye, hear ye -- I'm sorry.
13 and they made no progress on that. 13 MR. RUBIN: Okay. Now we're public. It's
14 MS. GOSSETT-SEIDMAN: Mayor, is there a 14 terminated. Thank you so much.
15 chance that moving a 70-foot boat into there, 15 MAYOR HILLMAN: Okay. Now adjourn the
16 whether it's part-time or not, might not even be 16 meeting. Thank you all.
17 commonsense because of the tides and -- I mean, I 17 MR. RUBIN: Thank you, Mayor. Thank you
18 was in there in a 28-foot boat and we could hardly 18 Commission.
19 get out, on a windy day. Is there a possibility 19 (Proceedings were concluded at 1:30 p.m.)
20 that that may not transpire anyway? 20
21 MAYOR HILLMAN: You know, there is. He 21
22 hasn't purchased that boat yet. 22
23 MS. GOSSETT-SEIDMAN: Okay. 23
24 MAYOR HILLMAN: And during the meetings that 24
25 I listened to, he was going to buy it, then the 25
Page 31 Page 33
1 price went up so he didn't buy it. So, I mean, I'm 1 CERTIFICATE
2 not going to say the guy's a nut. But, you know, 2
3 he doesn't seem to have it all there. 3 THE STATE OF FLORIDA
4 MS. GOSSETT-SEIDMAN: Okay. 4 COUNTY OF PALM BEACH
5 MAYOR HILLMAN: I don't know. I will tell 5 I, Mary Ann Hengstler, Registered Professional
6 you, though, I mean, I used to be a boater, and 6 Reporter, do hereby certify that I was authorized to
7 with, bow thrusters today and stern thrusters, the 7 and did report the foregoing proceedings at the time
8 bigger the boat the easier it is to navigate it. 8 and place herein stated, and that the foregoing is a
9 So getting boats in and out of there, the smaller 9 true and correct transcription of my stenotype notes
10 boats are going to have greater difficulty than the 10 taken during said proceedings.
11 larger boats. They're more affected by the wind 11
12 and they don't have all the navigation equipment. 12 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand
13 But it is what it is. So I would recommend that we 13 this 19th day of April, 2021.
14 authorize -- 14
15 MR. RUBIN: All right. So I'll contact the 15
16 counsel for Mr. Touchette and we'll see what we can 16
17 hammer out. Eventually when it -- if we come to 17
18 terms, or whatever the terms might be, it'll have 18 *41, °X944C
19 to come and be approved at a public meeting. But 19
20 there's nothing for you all to do now if that's 20 MARY ANN HENGSTLER
Registered Professional Reporter
21 your direction to me, is to try to settle, then 21
22 I'll do my best. 22
23 MAYOR HILLMAN: Okay. We're in agreement. 23
24 MR. RUBIN: Thank you so much. 24
25 MAYOR HILLMAN: Okay. Thank you. I have to 25
Florida Court Reporting
to _nna_naaa
1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 1
WORD INDEX < 8 > 19:9 20:15 25:24 best 10:2, 8 31:22
80 8:4 31:19 better 9:19 30:5
< 1 > approving 6:13 betting 9:17
1:00 1:15 3:4, 6 < A > approximately 3:24 beyond 11:14
1:30 1:15 32:19 able 11:13 18:1 5:7 big 15:8 16:7
10 5:11 absolutely 16:11 APRIL 1:2, 14 3:3 bigger 31:8
1006 1:9 4:9 access 8:10, 15, 18 33:13 bit 9:15 25:23
12 5:8 6:8, 13,25 accommodate 14:9, 11 area 7:16 19:1 bite 26:18
11:12 accurate 13:20 argue 20:14 26:22 blaming 12:18
12-foot 5:15,23 6:10 acquiring 28:16 argued 8:12 12:15 blocking 18:20
17 5:4 13:8 add 5:10 arguing 21:7 Board 4:12 5:13
19th 33:13 additional 5:11 9:24 argument 8:19,23 6:7, 11, 12, 14, 15, 19
adequate 24:6 9:16 13:2 15:21 7:2,3, 7 12:2,3, 11,
< 2 > adjacent 4:13 5:16 16:3 19:12 22 16:6,24 20:18
2017 4:12 5:9,20 adjourn 32:8, 15 aside 25:25 27:1 30:11
7:7 8:6 9:11 13:6 adjourned 32:6 attack 13:7, 8 16:14 Board's 8:22
15:20 16:3 advice 4:4 attendance 3:25 boat 4:13,25 5:6, 12,
2019 5:17 advised 20:2 ATTORNEY 2:6 21 6:2 7:16,20,22,
2020 6:11, 18 afraid 28:22 3:17 4:2,3, 7 17:13 23 8:17 11:8, 14
2021 1:2, 14 3:3 AGENDA 1:8 29:19 12:8 13:14, 15 14:6,
33:13 agree 29:14, 19 30:8 9, 11, 13,24 15:7, 10
25-foot 22:24 25:14 Agreed 11:23 ATTORNEY/CLIENT 16:8 17:15 18:16
28-foot 30:18 agreement 25:21 1:8 19:3, 15 20:15, 17, 19,
31:23 Attorney-Client 3:1, 24 21:1,4, 12,22
< 3 > air 11:12 23 32:2 24:4 30:6, 15, 18,22
30 3:24 alleges 18:15 August 6:11 31:8
3068 23:24 allow 7:22 24:9 authorize 30:2 31:14 boater 31:6
3614 3:2 25:10 authorized 33:6 boating 18:25
allowing 28:3 aware 4:18 5:2 boats 11:22 15:7, 11
< 4 > angle 16:13 27:9, 14 17:17 18:2 19:2
40,000-pound 4:12 Ann 1:24 33:5,20 awful 19:1 24:9 31:9, 10, 11
5:5 announce 32:10 boat's 8:17 20:20
48 5:7 14:6 21:12 answer 9:3 < B > book 20:12
48-foot 11:8 15:7 anybody 17:5 Back 4:11 5:20 6:7, Boulevard 3:2
4-foot 6:3 anyway 20:16 30:20 18 7:7 8:2, 6 9:11 bow 31:7
appear 5:16 29:10 10:15 13:8 15:1, 19 box 16:18
<5 > APPEARANCES 2:1 16:3 25:24 26:23 brainer 26:13
50 13:18 14:5 3:4 background 10:22 brief 12:18
50/50-shot 29:20 applicant 8:11 21:22 bring 17:11
50-2020-CA-13920- applied 5:20 10:7, based 21:17 26:21 brought 4:18 28:15
XXXX-MB 1:9 20 24:20 basically 8:3 brutal 16:1
50-shot 29:20 applies 6:7 bat 22:22 Build 22:9
approach 17:14 battle 29:24 building 5:17 22:14
< 6 > appropriate-sized BEACH 1:1, 14 3:3 27:6, 7
6 1:2, 14 3:3 18:2 4:10 18:6, 7, 8 33:4 built 25:16
approval 8:7 9:12 beat 17:7 business 4:3
< 7 > 13:4 26:23 believe 10:19 13:19 buy 30:25 31:1
70-foot 7:20 30:15 approvals 13:5, 8 17:11 22:10 25:8, 11 buying 21:23
approved 4:12 5:5, 27:13 28:21
13 7:9 8:13 17:1
Florida Court Reporting
Fi_FQQ_naoa
• 1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 2
< C > Commissioner 3:9, decides 10:9 essentially 6:22 7:3
call 3:7,8 6:1 11, 13 decision 28:20 estimated 3:24
called 6:4 12:9 commonsense 30:17 deck 6:3 EVALYN 2:4 10:24
canal 8:4 15:6 17:6 company 22:8 defense 17:3 28:14
canals 18:7 Complete 25:25 definitely 17:11 event 21:6
capability 22:15 completely 11:10 delayed 18:17 Eventually 31:17
capacity 28:18 comply 23:6 25:19 denial 8:22 evidence 26:21
car 19:4 compromise 17:9 denied 16:24 exact 18:15
carries 28:21 21:19 denies 7:3 EXECUTIVE 1:1,8
CASE 1:9 4:8, 18 concerned 27:6 deny 8:9 3:1
18:14 concerning 4:4 department 27:7 expending 29:23
certainly 28:22 concluded 32:19 depends 19:14 expenditure 4:6
certify 33:6 configured 4:16 depicted 13:10 expenditures 9:24
Certiorari 8:22 considered 6:17 8:6 devices 24:3 expense 20:9
challenged 15:19 19:8 25:8 diagram 5:19 expert 6:21,22 8:24
challenging 8:22 constituents 6:9 dictated 25:21 9:6, 7 10:16 21:14,
chance 9:5 30:15 construction 5:15 difference 7:4 16:20 15
chances 26:18 contact 31:15 21:2 experts 21:14
change 19:4 contractor's 6:1 different 11:10 explanation 7:25
changed 20:23,25 convince 26:14 30:12 18:25 22:8, 14 23:21, 14:20,23
check 12:4 correct 14:14 15:4 23 extended 19:20
chronology 4:11 23:11 33:9 difficulty 31:10 extraneous 15:18
CITY 2:2 counsel 8:12 31:16 direction 31:21
civil 18:12 COUNTY 33:4 director 29:3 < F >
civilly 28:2 course 21:15 discussions 30:11 facility 8:4
claimed 7:18 Court 1:9 4:2, 9 9:4 distance 11:19 fact 18:13
clearance 19:6 10:9 25:15 26:7 district 25:4, 6, 7, 9 factors 27:1,2
CLERK 3:9, 11, 13, 27:23 29:18 docks 17:24 18:2 failed 27:18
15, 17, 19,21 coverage 25:23 28:17 door 19:17 32:4, 9 familiar 4:15 7:11,
close 9:25 create 8:8 DOUGLAS 2:2 12
closest 11:1 creative 16:17 driving 19:3 far 17:16 19:14
clue 20:18 criteria 8:5 drove 4:24 21:18
code 8:2,3 18:10 cuts 15:1 favor 10:10
24:25 29:15 < E > feasible 6:25 21:11,
codes 23:21 24:11, < D > easier 31:8 16
12,20 27:5 28:6 daughter 7:20 14:21, easily 19:2 February 4:12 5:4
29:11 23 east 15:24 7:7
colleagues 29:8 DAVID 2:4 3:11, 12 easy 15:21 feel 7:4
collective 10:1 4:22 5:3 11:3,21 eight 4:13 5:5 feeling 26:6 29:11
combination 29:22 14:15 17:15,20,24 either 14:6 23:9 feels 29:19
come 4:22 6:18 18:1, 19,24 19:6, 14 endanger 8:9 feet 5:7,8 6:8, 13,20,
18:5 22:2 31:17, 19 20:23 21:2 23:2 engineer 10:16, 17 25 7:1, 8, 9 8:4,25
comes 6:7, 11 27:24 28:1 29:2 enjoyment 17:20 9:8,23 10:6 11:4, 12,
coming 9:1 16:7 day 13:19 30:19 entered 8:1 18 12:20 13:7, 18
commence 3:23 33:13 entitled 26:25 14:5 20:13, 18, 19,22
comment 28:11 days 9:10 entitlement 16:15 21:24 22:1 26:10
COMMISSION 1:1 dead 17:7 equipment 31:12 feet's 26:13
2:2 3:22 4:1,4 9:17, decent 27:7 error 5:24,25 felt 16:25
21,22 10:2 32:5, 18 decent-sized 19:3 especially 15:22 fighting 18:14
figured 5:1
Florida Court Reporting
cei _r_oo_naaa
1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021i
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 3
filed 8:21 27:8, 18, 22 24:2,5, 17,23 homes 15:23 JOHN 2:5 13:21
23 25:5, 18 26:1,5, 11 honestly 15:6 20:7
fine 11:9 27:4, 10, 15,21 28:11, honesty 16:19 jump 13:21
firm 29:11, 15 14 29:4, 7 30:14,23 horse 17:7
First 12:2 16:22 31:4 house 7:23,24 11:17, < K >
22:7 Grand 1:9 4:9 19 keeps 18:17
fit 7:24 25:15 hull 11:8, 10 kind 8:20 9:15
five 28:19 great 7:5 16:3 hulls 11:22 14:25 15:8 20:10
floor 11:13 greater 31:10 Hypoluxo 18:13 26:22 28:7, 16
Florida 1:14, 25 3:3 guess 20:8 29:2 know 4:15 6:23
33:3 guy's 31:2 < I > 7:21 8:24, 25 9:17
fly 16:16 immune 28:7 10:18 11:6 12:7
focused 20:4 < H > immunity 28:8 13:19 14:22 15:5, 16,
followed 27:11 hammer 31:17 impairing 18:11 23 16:16,24 17:13
foot 5:21 6:24 10:5 hand 33:12 impede 22:23 24:14 19:8 20:9 21:3,5, 7
14:6 21:12 Handing 4:21 impeded 28:3 24:8, 10 25:15 26:19,
forced 21:8 happened 20:11 impedes 18:16 20,21,22 27:15 28:6
foregoing 3:1 33:7,8 happens 5:14 important 29:17 29:8,21 30:21 31:2,
form 6:9 happy 11:4, 7 29:22 inches 10:18 19:4 5
found 9:14 hard 13:6 included 16:19 known 7:7 17:1
four 5:21 6:24 7:4, hazard 15:20 19:12 indicated 5:6
9 11:18 12:20 16:21, hazardous 8:8 indication 17:12 < L >
22 20:15, 17, 19,21, head 22:17 individual 28:20 LABADIE 2:6 3:19,
22 21:9, 10, 24 22:1 hear 6:9 32:12 individuals 28:17 20 4:1 24:21 25:12
frankly 18:21 heard 21:18 infringement 24:7 27:17,22 32:12
front 11:15 19:16 hearing 6:20 7:18 initial 23:23 26:6 large 24:9 28:25
funds 29:23 8:11 12:21,22 14:23 initially 24:8 larger 14:24 31:11
further 21:25 height 5:8 6:1, 4, 16, input 10:1 law 26:3
20 12:4, 8 17:1 installed 6:8 lawsuit 20:10 25:16
< G > held 3:2 insurance 28:17,22 lawsuits 19:23 27:5,
G(1 23:24,25 helpful 12:25 29:3 8
G(2 23:25 helps 4:17 intended 21:4 learned 5:23
Generally 28:5, 7, 9 Hengstler 1:24 2:8 intent 29:15 left 6:17
getting 13:1 18:17 33:5,20 interested 29:9 legal 8:12 9:20
19:25 31:9 hereinabove 3:5 interesting 17:23,25 legally 12:13
give 4:11 9:21 21:8 hereunto 33:12 18:5 25:15 LEONARD 2:6
go 9:13 13:24 18:18 Hey 5:18 interestingly 12:17 life 8:9
19:19 26:23 high 6:25 interference 8:8 lift 4:13 5:5, 7, 12,
going 7:8,20 8:2 HIGHLAND 1:1, 14 15:8 19:13,24 21 6:2 7:14, 17,22
11:4, 11, 13, 14, 16, 19 3:3 4:10 18:8 interferes 20:17 8:7, 17 10:13 12:8
16:16 17:4 18:17 HILLMAN 2:2 3:6, interpreting 28:6 13:14 18:16 19:15
19:21 20:15, 17,20 15, 16,22 10:4,21,24 issue 12:16 15:14, 17, 22:22
21:7 23:25 29:22 11:16,23 13:21,24 20 16:5 18:5, 12 Lifting 24:3
30:8,25 31:2, 10 14:2, 8, 14 15:12, 14 20:5 27:3 28:8 limited 29:6
good 9:5 12:24 22:4 16:9 19:25 20:4, 7, issued 22:12, 13 line 14:1 19:16, 19
26:19,20 20 21:21 22:5 29:1, issues 5:18 20:1 23:12 24:16
GOSSETT- 13, 19 30:4, 10,21,24 it'll 31:18 listen 21:18
SEIDMAN 2:4 3:13, 31:5,23,25 32:5, 15 listened 30:10,25
14 4:24 22:6, 13, 18, home 22:25 23:1, 2 < J > litigation 4:6
20 23:3, 8, 13, 15, 19,
Florida Court Reporting
stii_tiQQ_naaa
1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 4
•
little 4:11 9:15 31:5,23,25 32:5, 15, 19:6 other's 18:16
16:17 25:23 17 negotiate 30:1 outside 16:18 27:23
live 10:25 11:1,3 mean 7:24 9:14 negotiations 4:5 outstanding 27:8
LLC 1:9 4:9 15:9, 16 18:10, 19 neighboring 22:23 owner 6:6
location 5:12 7:10 19:2,5 21:10 23:20 24:6, 14
8:13 19:11 26:12 30:17 31:1, 6 neighbors 17:16 < P>
locations 7:13 means 11:12 18:12,23 28:1 29:21 p.m 1:15 3:4 32:19
look 5:3 6:22 8:12 measured 13:19 neighbor's 19:17 Palm 18:6 33:4
11:7 18:19,24 27:1, measuring 13:20 never 6:4 13:20 PAPA 13:20
2 28:24 meet 25:23 17:12 21:3 23:7 parameters 25:22
looked 22:21 23:15 MEETING 1:1 3:7 new 11:25 part 5:25 6:1 15:14
24:12, 19 6:14 7:6 8:1 30:11 nice 11:22 part-time 30:16
looking 6:10 9:14 31:19 32:1, 6, 16 normally 12:3 Pass 11:23
10:15 11:8, 9 16:23 meetings 30:24 North 18:6 PEGGY 2:4 22:5
23:14 24:9 28:24 megillah 22:2 Notary 1:25 pen 14:2
lose 9:6, 18 members 3:25 6:16 noted 3:5 pending 27:5
lot 23:21,22 25:20, mess 25:23 notes 33:9 people 11:1,3 22:15
23 26:17 29:24 messed 12:23 November 6:18 29:16
lower 6:16 21:25 minutes 3:24 numbers 12:4 peoples 15:23
misrepresentation nut 31:2 permit 22:9
< M > 13:4 Nutter 10:16 12:21 permitted 22:7
ma'am 27:25 29:4 misrepresented 13:3 person 22:7 28:20
man 9:17 missing 21:22 24:25 < O > personally 18:20
MANAGER 2:6 mistake 9:11 12:23 obstructing 8:18 Persons 3:25
3:19 4:1 16:15 26:24 obstruction 17:5 perspective 18:25
maneuver 19:2 money 26:8, 17 obviously 28:2 29:25 petition 8:21 9:3
maneuvering 15:10 moor 7:21 14:25 Ocean 3:2 12:18
map 4:20 7:13 MOORE 2:2 8:1 October 5:9 picked 12:6, 7, 10, 11
13:12 29:14 officer 29:3 piece 21:21
maps 4:17 mooring 8:3 official 5:18 28:18 piling 6:2 23:11
March 5:17 moot 16:9, 11, 13 Oh 15:2 20:25 pilings 5:16,22,23
marina 11:9 17:7 23:19 25:3 32:3 6:3,4, 10, 19 8:18
marine 10:17 move 17:9 26:14 Okay 3:6,9,22 4:17 12:8 14:3 20:22
MARSHALL 2:6 30:12 9:22 10:21 11:23,24 23:12 26:16
9:5 24:24 27:15 moving 30:15 13:12 17:6 18:4 place 5:7 33:8
32:4 multi-family 24:21 22:20 29:1 30:3,4, placed 7:16
Mary 1:24 2:8 33:5, 25:2, 10 23 31:4,23,25 32:13, Planning 5:13 6:7,
20 municipalities 28:16 15 11, 12, 14, 15, 19 7:2,
Massey 22:11 once 8:16 3, 6 8:22 12:2,3,22
matter 18:13 19:9, < N > ones 27:17 16:6 20:18 30:11
10 20:14, 16 narrow 19:1 open 32:3,8 plans 9:12 12:9, 12
MAYOR 2:2 3:6, 15, NATASHA 2:2 opportunity 9:22 13:11 21:23
16,22 4:8 8:1 10:4, 29:13 opposed 29:10 play 9:20
21,24 11:16,23 navigate 15:22 31:8 order 3:7 5:18 please 3:8
13:21,24 14:2, 8, 14 navigation 8:8, 15 22:11, 14 29:10 point 10:9 11:6
15:12, 14 16:9 19:25 15:20 19:12, 13 27:3 ordinances 22:21 15:18 16:9, 11, 13, 14
20:4, 7,20 21:21 31:12 original 8:7 22:8 17:25 18:5 26:3
22:5, 6 29:1, 13, 14, navigational 24:7 26:23 porch 4:23
19 30:4, 10, 14,21,24 need 8:25 9:7, 13 originally 5:20 19:9 position 8:20 30:6
Florida Court Reporting
c, _tiaa_naoQ
1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021:
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 5
possibility 30:19 27:24 ridiculous 12:19 sense 6:23 29:25
post 4:13 5:12 questions 11:25 26:6 20:11 32:9 separate 19:19,20
posts 5:5, 11 quiet 17:20 right 5:3 7:1 9:17 serving 28:18
potential 27:5, 16 quite 18:21 12:5, 16 13:16, 17 SESSION 1:1, 8 3:2,
practices 24:8 14:4, 15, 16 15:7,22 23 9:3 32:2
precedence 27:12 < R > 17:6 18:14, 19,22 set 23:12 27:12, 13
precedent 27:14 rails 12:4 22:8,22,25 23:11, 12, 33:12
prepared 11:5 12:1 raised 16:3,4 23:7 13 24:1 25:18 26:1, setback 22:24 23:9,
Present 3:10, 12, 14, rationale 7:5 4, 11 27:21 31:15 10 24:18,22
16,20 read 32:1 rights 18:11, 16 28:4 settle 9:24 10:7, 11,
presenting 22:15 realize 13:9 riparian 18:11, 16 12, 19 20:13 29:15,
pretty 15:21 26:19 really 6:3 7:8 8:14, RML 25:8, 10 18 31:21
prevail 9:9 16, 17 9:8 13:6 16:2, roll 3:8 settlement 4:5 10:5
price 31:1 20,23 18:22 19:7 RPR 1:24 25:17,21 26:7, 9
pro 26:8 20:12 RUBIN 2:6 3:17, 18 settling 29:9
probably 23:18 rear 4:13 7:14 4:2, 7,8,21 5:1,4 seven 6:20 7:1,5,8
problem 18:3 19:7 13:17 14:13 10:6,23 12:6, 14, 17, 8:25 9:8,23 10:4, 6,
20:6, 19 22:16 reason 7:19 9:2 25 13:14, 17 14:10, 8, 10, II, 12, 17, 19
PROCEEDINGS 1:2 reasonable 8:10 11:5 16, 19,22 15:4, 19 11:4, 18 13:7 16:21,
9:20 32:19 33:7, 10 reasons 10:25 16:2, 12 17:10, 19,22, 22 20:13 21:8,20
process 9:13 recommend 31:13 25 18:4,22 19:5, 7, 26:10, 12 30:1,2
Professional 33:5,20 red 13:25 18 20:2,22 21:3, 10, Shakes 22:17
progress 30:13 reference 24:13 14 22:10, 17, 19 23:1, sharp 15:10
prop 21:24 references 22:22 5, 10, 14, 17,20 24:1, SHOEMAKER 2:5
property 4:14, 16,20 24:3 4, 15 25:3, 6, 13, 19 3:9, 10 4:19 11:24
5:16 6:6 7:12 8:9 referencing 25:5 26:4, 12 27:9, 13, 25 12:13, 15,24 13:12,
13:18,25 14:1 17:21 regarding 27:5 28:5, 13 29:5 30:3, 8 15,23,25 14:4, 12, 17,
19:16, 19 22:23 Registered 33:5,20 31:15,24 32:3, 7, 13, 21 15:2,5, 13, 16
23:12 24:6, 10, 14 regulatory 18:7 17 16:1,5, 10 17:4
proposed 10:4, 14 related 4:5 19:22 20:6, 8,25
props 21:24 relied 13:2,3 16:14 < S > 21:6, 12, 17 22:4
protection 24:6 26:24 Safe 22:9 25:1 26:9 30:5
provide 24:5 rely 9:12 26:25 sat 30:10 show 9:10
provides 28:17 remember 24:23 save 26:8 showed 5:21 6:2
Public 1:25 8:9, 10 25:7 saying 13:6 15:3 side 14:25 15:2
28:18 31:19 32:1, 6, Reopen 32:1 16:10, 12, 19 17:8 17:9 24:25 26:15
10, 13 report 33:7 28:23 30:7, 12
publicly 32:8 Reported 1:24 says 5:18 6:12,23 sides 12:16
pulls 19:15 reporter 4:2 33:6,20 21:3 similar 29:3
purchase 21:23 request 4:3 scheme 18:8 single-family 22:25
purchased 30:22 requested 5:10 second 5:19 10:25 23:1,2 25:9
pursuing 29:10 requirements 23:6 11:13 16:22 six 7:1 10:17, 18
put 7:14, 19,21 9:25 25:20 Secondly 22:20 size 19:10 20:24,25
14:13, 17 18:1 26:16 requires 21:23 section 23:14,24 slots 15:11
28:3 30:6 result 25:16 see 4:19,22 7:12 small 17:6 28:25
putting 5:22 retained 6:22 11:13, 19 15:5 19:21 smaller 31:9
reviewed 23:4 31:16 Somebody 12:6
< Q > reviewing 12:12 seeing 11:17 14:24
question 17:15 20:9 Richard 1:9 4:9 seen 4:20 11:25 somebody's 27:19
sorry 32:12
Florida Court Reporting
�ti1-Faa-naaa
1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 6
sort 6:17 9:25 13:1 talking 5:11 8:5, 14, TOWN 1:1 2:6 3:9,
17:2 15 9:4 10:18 11:11 11, 13, 15, 17, 19,21, < W >
South 3:2 16:20 26:16 22 4:1,3,4, 10 6:21 wait 5:19
sovereign 28:8 taller 13:10 8:13 10:3 12:19 waiting 27:8
special 28:16 technically 6:25 18:8, 13 26:8 28:21 want 4:22 6:19
spot 18:20 21:11, 16 32:5 11:7 14:25 17:7
springboard 17:3 tell 16:6 31:5 towns 23:23 28:24 20:14 21:8 27:2,20
staff 12:10 23:7 terminated 32:14 Town's 5:24 8:24 28:24
stand 13:5, 6 termination 32:1, 10 17:3 21:15 wanted 7:21 9:2, 16,
standard 24:7 terms 15:17 31:18 traffic 15:17 21 10:1
standards 8:2,3 testify 12:21 TRANSCRIPT 1:2 wants 14:12
stands 28:19 testimony 9:7 10:15 water 22:1
start 10:24 11:2 Thank 3:21 4:8 transcription 33:9 waterways 8:10
starting 3:4 10:21 22:6 31:24,25 transpire 30:20 way 5:19 9:6, 8
State 1:25 33:3 32:14, 16, 17 travel 15:9 11:12 13:7, 8, 10
stated 33:8 Thanks 29:12 trial 18:17, 18 17:8 23:24 29:8
stay 20:4 26:6 29:5, thing 12:2 18:15 trip 28:15 weeks 9:10
18 25:15 29:17,21 true 17:1 33:9 welcome 10:23
staying 29:11 things 9:19 16:24 try 20:4 26:14 well 7:6 9:10 10:6
STENOGRAPHER 28:7 29:6 29:23,25 30:3 31:21 11:3, 16 12:19 14:19
2:8 think 5:17 9:18 trying 14:5 16:16, 16:12, 19 17:22 18:9
Stenographically 1:24 15:20 16:17 20:12, 17 17:5 30:12 19:14, 18 21:6, 14
stenotype 33:9 13 21:13 25:10 TUESDAY 1:2, 14 23:18,22 24:4 26:12
stern 31:7 26:15, 17, 18, 19,21 3:3 27:2
sticks 17:16 29:16, 17,24 30:1 turn 4:6 went 31:1
Stop 5:18 22:11, 13 thinking 9:9 twelve 16:21 we're 5:11 6:12
strategy 4:5 third 21:24 twice 8:13 8:20 10:18 16:20
submitted 5:19 9:11 thought 10:2 two 5:10 7:13 10:25 19:25 21:7 23:24
subsequent 6:6 thousand 23:16 24:9 26:5 27:6 29:10 31:23
subsequently 5:9 threats 27:18 32:13
sudden 5:15 three 11:18 21:24 < U > west 7:15, 16 13:13
sue 17:17 28:2,9 22:14,22 24:19 understand 9:1, 18 we've 5:23 22:14
sued 28:19,23 thrusters 31:7 14:5 15:18 20:23 27:22
suggestion 21:17 thumb 13:22,23 26:2,4 WHEREOF 33:12
suit 27:23 28:8 tides 30:17 Understandably 8:23 wide 8:4 13:13 14:5,
suits 27:16 tight 15:25 understanding 23:5 6,8, 10
superstructures 11:22 time 6:19 8:7 12:10 Understood 11:21 win 29:23
support 9:15 13:6 16:22 18:6 unreasonable 6:24 wind 16:7 19:16
sure 6:9 7:24 9:14 26:8 27:19 33:7 uphill 29:24 31:11
10:7, 10, 11, 12 23:17 times 23:16 24:19 windy 30:19
28:13 today 31:7 < V > winning 29:21
susceptible 19:23 told 19:22 27:19 vaguely 24:23 wish 26:19
sway 29:8 top 5:3 versed 23:18 wished 28:10
totally 29:9 versus 4:9 14:13 wishes 5:6
< T > Touchette 1:9 4:9 VICE 2:2 8:1 29:14 wit 3:5
take 11:14 17:2 5:6, 10 7:18 17:12 view 18:21 WITNESS 33:12
taken 33:10 31:16 violation 19:21 wondering 26:2
talk 6:15 29:6 Touchette's 4:14 visit 14:25 Work 5:18 10:13
talked 24:24 5:25 8:12 visual 8:10, 15, 18 22:11, 13 26:7
tough 9:16 15:24
Florida Court Reporting
561-689-0999
1006 Grand Court LLC and Richard Touchette 4/6/2021
ATTORNEY CLIENT SESSION 7
Writ 8:21
wrong 12:16
< Y>
yards 24:25
ye 32:12
Yeah 5:1 11:21
13:24 14:10 19:5
20:2,22 22:12 24:15
25:3, 6, 12, 13 28:13
29:14, 17 32:3, 7
years 27:11
< Z >
zero 24:22 25:14
zoning 25:4, 6, 7, 9
Florida Court Reporting
c i_tiQa_naaa